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Phaia

Ret DPS Trouble

16 posts in this topic

I'm really at the end of my rope with Ret.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormrage/Phai%C3%A1/simple

 

That's my Ret Pally, and I'm unable to achieve above 12k in sustained DPS and I burst with Wings around 16k DPS.

 

I use the rotation I've seen in Icy Veins, Paladins with similar gear to my own in my guild are sustaining 19-20k DPS so I have no clue what I'm doing wrong or why, I'm looking for any help that might explain my problem.

 

I'm also using Final Verdict as a Tier 100 talent.

 

I start out with Sanctified Wrath, then Execution Sentence, HoW, Crusader Strike, Exorcism, Judgement, HoW, FV and then repeat from there depending on whats on CD and what's up.

 

My DPS is far from consistent, and it never breaks the 12k mark without Sanctified Wrath.

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Do you have any logs? Hard to tell if youre doing anything wrong without them.

 

warcraftlogs.com

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To be honest, the log looks mostly fine.  Also i think that 12k on a target dummy unbuffed is pretty ok for your gear level. So you should be able to get atleast ~ 16k on  boss fights which is nothing to brag about but still better then what you were saying in your first post.

 

Also this log uses seraphim, which will always produce lower sustained numbers at the current gear level than FV if you don't stack CD's + bloodlust. potions etc.

 

This leads to the few issues i noticed in the log:

 

If you are using seraphim, try to time it around your wings: pool 5 HP cast seraphim+activate wings. Its ok to waste a little bit of HP or seraphim/wings CD. Dont know if its worth it to wait for Seraphim to pop wings on the pull, havent played much Seraphim myself.

 

The biggest thing i noticed:  if you are using sanctified wrath, during wings your rotation should look like this HOW- FILLER -HOW -FILLER -HOW . HOW hits like a truck, abuse its cd, you have sometimes around ~3 casts between how's when there should only be one.

 

Have you tried other lvl 75 talents? Maybe they work better for you - they are all pretty much the same in terms of sustained dps on a single target.

 

Holy Avenger is really easy to play. Just macro it into your wings and you only need to cast alternating TV/FV with your hardest hitting availabe generator for 18seconds.(DS procs also ofc).

 

SW is also pretty straightforward, but it's sometimes a little bit awkard at low haste levels.

 

Divine Purpose is really hard to  master and get the maximum amount out of it, but it's the most forgiving out of the three. 

 

HA+ SW change your rotation during certain times and you lose alot of potential dps if you screw up. DP is really hard to master( how long should i keep the buff up before consumig it, consume DP or Empowered Divine Storm buff first?), but it doesnt change your playstyle during certain times and if you are just pressing the buttons when it procs, your won't lose that much dps.

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i7gr5lR.png

 

This is my DPS @ Butcher, I use the standard rotation and pop everything when I can.

 

It's a very easy rotation now, just focus the prios and you should be fine. :)

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I have the same problem. 

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/blackrock/Awesomnius/advanced

 

I just rerolled my Ret for raiding since my main class is not needed :< I have really hard troubles keeping up with the DPS of the other DD´s. Last raid we wiped at butcher HC around 2-3% simply because there were 2 DDs not making enough dmg (me and another one). I had around 16,8k dps raidbuffed (gear was a bit lower around 638) over the whole fight, although I didnt have to move or do anything else throughout the whole fight. I know some of my items have bad stats but when I browse through my guildmates they also have a lot slots which have stats that are not best for them and they are able to deliver 20k+ with the same gear. So if tonight I am not able to deal a lot more DPS I am probably going to loose my raidspot. 

 

I dont really know what to change, I have a very close look an the rotation and I always try to pool HP (like when I have 3 HP and CS is ready I use it and after that I use final verdict or divine). Should I only use divine storm when I have the procc + buff from FV or FV > DS > FV and so on ? 

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 just focus the prios and you should be fine. smile.png

 That's probly the part people could use a more thorough explanation of.

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I would also not rule out improper stat priorities with your gear-- I noticed a bit a deficiency in your Mastery and Haste, both of which are only second to Strength.

If you really want to get to the gritty side of it, I recommend this Theorycrafting page I reference, often.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1607924-6-0-PvE-Ret-Paladin-Theorycraft-amp-Discussion

EDIT: Oh! And it would not hurt running your character through AskMrRobot (new account=free trail period for a week) to catch any glaring mistakes and then figure out a logical upgrade path.

Cheers!

 

Edited by Shmelter

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You should only use divine storm in a single target situation when you have both:
1: Final Verdict buff
AND

2: Empowered Divine Storm proc

 

When both these conditions are met, your priority is to cast Divine Storm over any other move.

Otherwise, avoid using an Divine storm for single target dps.

 

P.S. An easy way to check this will be using the addon TellMeWhen and tracking the FV buff, if your divine storm procs and you see that you have the FV buff => use Divine Storm.

Edited by Salonpas

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In response to Phaia,

A couple of pointers:

1. Prioritise judgement over exorcism

2. With wings up you should not require so many other moves. Personal experience sees that you mainly alternate between HoW and CS, with some downtime requiring you to add a Judgment whilst waiting for both to cool down.

3. Remember to keep pooling HP to 5 before casting Final Verdict, however if everything is on cd and you have 3 or 4 HP, cast Final Verdict.

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Idk what is going wrong with your rotation. I'm 636 ilvl (at this time) and I can pull ~15k DPS on the garrison training dummy with mastery buff in a 5 minute fight (divine storm and exorcism do cleave slightly though).

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/Blade%27s%20Edge/Altarius/advanced

 

Maybe you should try Sanctified Wrath?

Edited by resentic

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Idk what is going wrong with your rotation. I'm 636 ilvl (at this time) and I can pull ~15k DPS on the garrison training dummy with mastery buff in a 5 minute fight (divine storm and exorcism do cleave slightly though).

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/Blade%27s%20Edge/Altarius/advanced

 

Maybe you should try Sanctified Wrath?

 

A primary issue I'm running into is the confusing conflicting advice I keep getting in reguards to talents, I'm told to use Divine Purpose while someone else sais to use Sanctified Wrath. - Which leads me to the question, if I'm currently running Divine Purpose how much DPS am I losing by doing so?

 

As far as Seraphim goes, people tell me constantly I should be using it over Final Verdict because I get more out of it until later gear levels, but as far as hitting 15k on a training dummy with just my mastery buff up - eh I've never really been able to achieve that.

 

As far as my gear is concerned, maybe I'm confused on what I should be doing there, but I feel like the drops I get from either A.Heroics or B.LFR/Normal Highmaul are so random I have very little say in how to "control" my stat priorities, I'm trying to balance out my stat priorities but I'm at the mercy of what drops as well. If anyone else has any insight on this, let me know.

 

I know this may seem like a silly question, but I've really been at the mercy of whatever drops.

Edited by Phaia

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A primary issue I'm running into is the confusing conflicting advice I keep getting in reguards to talents, I'm told to use Divine Purpose while someone else sais to use Sanctified Wrath. - Which leads me to the question, if I'm currently running Divine Purpose how much DPS am I losing by doing so?

 

As far as Seraphim goes, people tell me constantly I should be using it over Final Verdict because I get more out of it until later gear levels, but as far as hitting 15k on a training dummy with just my mastery buff up - eh I've never really been able to achieve that.

 

As far as my gear is concerned, maybe I'm confused on what I should be doing there, but I feel like the drops I get from either A.Heroics or B.LFR/Normal Highmaul are so random I have very little say in how to "control" my stat priorities, I'm trying to balance out my stat priorities but I'm at the mercy of what drops as well. If anyone else has any insight on this, let me know.

 

I know this may seem like a silly question, but I've really been at the mercy of whatever drops.

Divine purpose is said to be good in 5-mans or when quick burst AoE is needed (e.g. trash, quick 5-man bosses). I guess this is because it's pretty random when you're going to get the Divine Purpose procs while Sanctified Wrath gives a solid, predictable DPS increase in longer fights (i.e. Raid bosses, as you are using multiple Avenging Wraths throughout the fight).

 

With the Sepharim vs Final Verdict choice, remember that Final Verdict is effectively a passive as it replaces a spell you would still be using, while Sepharim is another button to manage with a cooldown and a holy power cost that is very easy to use incorrectly. Just misusing it alone will result in lower DPS than using FV. I'm not quite sure myself why Sepharim is better with higher gear levels since it is a straight 1000 boost to stats, but I would still pick FV since it is much easier to manage and I doubt that the DPS increase of Sepharim, at higher gear levels, is that much more. 

 

Regarding stat priorities, you don't really have much control over what drops, and the stats, since there is no reforging anymore, you can only hope that you get the better stats. You should just be on the lookout for gear with better stats that the piece you already have (e.g. bracers with Mastery and Haste are much better than Crit and Multistrike).

 

EDIT: after simming my character on Simcraft, the differences are as below

 

DP + FV = 14852 dps

SW + FV = 14636 dps

HA + FV = 14626 dps

 

DP + Seph = 14525 dps

SW + Seph = 14703 dps

HA + Seph = 14519 dps

 

DP + Seals = 14213 dps

SW + Seals = 14626 dps

HA + Seals = 14346 dps

 

It would seem that in my current gear, the differences are tiny between different talent choices with FV giving better results than Sepharim and, not considering human error when using Sepharim, while Seals is a waste of time considering how difficult it is. It would seem that DP is getting better results than SW in single target when using FV. However, taking the DPS range into account: DP + FV gives 10.1% while SW + FV gives 7.8%. So I guess, it depends on RNG when it comes to using DP over SW. I still prefer SW since it's less random but that will change with gear.

Edited by resentic

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In response to Phaia,

A couple of pointers:

1. Prioritise judgement over exorcism

2. With wings up you should not require so many other moves. Personal experience sees that you mainly alternate between HoW and CS, with some downtime requiring you to add a Judgment whilst waiting for both to cool down.

3. Remember to keep pooling HP to 5 before casting Final Verdict, however if everything is on cd and you have 3 or 4 HP, cast Final Verdict.

I have noticed that I may be utilizing exorcism and exorcism procs a little bit to much now that i'm monitoring the CD on CS and Judgement.

 

So my question there is, if CS is down and Judgement, and I don't have 5 HP should I still be using those exorcism procs as well as exo when it is off CD until I have the 5 HP to utilize FV or TV?

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I have noticed that I may be utilizing exorcism and exorcism procs a little bit to much now that i'm monitoring the CD on CS and Judgement.

 

So my question there is, if CS is down and Judgement, and I don't have 5 HP should I still be using those exorcism procs as well as exo when it is off CD until I have the 5 HP to utilize FV or TV?

Look at the Icy Veins guide for the priority, if you can't do any of the things before exorcism on the priority list then use it. You don't need to use the procs any differently than if it hadn't procced; they don't change its priority

Edited by resentic

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I didn't want to create a new thread with this one currently active, so I hope I'm not intruding on the OP. However, I was wondering if you guys wouldn't mind also taking a look at my character. My DPS seems to be on the low side. My raid leader says I should be doing much higher DPS and I agree. 

 

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/blackhand/Nixanthros/simple

 

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/20752/

 

A few things to note. 1. If you look at one of the butcher fights, you'll notice I derp'd pretty hard, and used SotR instead of SoT. That's a my bad. Other than that, I could use some advice. I'm running HA+FV at the moment. 

 

I do use clcret as a guide, but I don't follow it to a T, because I know there are times that other skills would be more beneficial than that rotation. 

 

Thanks a lot for your help in advance. I would greatly appreciate any feedback you could give me. 

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