Zweena

Underperforming Balance Druid Requesting Help

16 posts in this topic

Armory Link (Current ilvl 649)

 

For my balance bars, I use EEB.

 

Logs:

These are the 2 most recent relevant logs I have.

Kargath Bladefist (19,351 dps, ilvl at the time was 645, this was with Euphoria. I do not go up, I stay down and thus don't AoE.)

The Butcher (18,292 dps, ilvl at the time was 645, this was with Balance of Power)

 

Hello! I seem to be underperforming on every encounter (not just those logged above!) and am hoping that people with more experience raiding as balance druids could give me some suggestions or tips.

 

After bouncing between BoP, Stellar Flare, and Euphoria, I've settled on Euphoria, as I seem to have the best results with that spec. As for my DPS problems, at first, I had a DoT uptime problem, which I feel I've basically corrected (or at least seen great improvement with), though there's always room for improvement. Currently, I suspect that my issues stem more from timing of my spells as well as nailing my opener just right.

 

I've read through the forums and snagged a CA macro from another dps help thread, and I'll be integrating that into my opener to see how it changes things. Beyond that, I suspect that my under performance stems from mis-timing spells and casting in the wrong eclipse. Other than that, I'm at a loss as to what it could be.

 

The macro I'm going to be trying:

 

#showtooltip
/cast Celestial Alignment
/cast Berserking
/cast Nature's Vigil
/use Turbulent Focusing Crystal
/cast Moonfire
 

Does anything in my logs stand out as 'you're doing it wrong' to anyone, and does anyone have any suggestions for improvment? Do you feel I could be correct in my assumptions and on the right path to increasing my output?

Edited by Zweena

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, talent choices shouldn't be based on "I tried it once or twice and liked it more".  They should be based on hard evidence.  Most guides have this done for you.  I've ran a couple hours worth of simulations with talents for single and multi-target choices when writing my guide. They're not close enough for you to be able to justify playing around with talents like Balance of Power in any situation.

 

I honestly recommend against using macros like that, to be honest.  You can macro CA and Berserking together, but I don't put the rest of that together, because I like my macros to be useful for more than just the initial pull.  Most of the time, during the fight, you won't even want Moonfire to be your first spell during CA.  Nature's Vigil should only been used when beneficial, not right at the start of a fight and not on cooldown. Your trinket has a two-minute cooldown, so you should have this bound separately to use it as its available and not holding it for CA. (For trinkets, /use 13 activates your first trinket slot, and /use 14 activates the second).

 

Now, onto your DPS!

 

I'm looking at that Kargath kill.

 

First, your DoT uptimes are great.  You can't get any better than 99%, and 96% is more than reasonable. Anything in the 99% range is your goal, 95% is going well, and 90% is acceptable but should be worked on.

 

You start the fight with 3 Starsurge charges. In a 3:58 fight, you stand to gain 7 charges back from regular recharging. During the fight, you gained 20 charges from Shooting Stars procs. That means you had a total availability of 30 Starsurge and Starfall casts. You used 29 total, so you're doing very good on that front (seriously, that's where most people learning the spec fail).

 

Here's where you really dropped the ball: you used your CDs once during the opener and never again. For a 3:58 fight, I should see two uses of everything, including your trinket.  I also don't see a second potion.  That's rough. That's pretty inexcusible.  You did 19k DPS, and easily would have been 21k if you'd used your CDs properly. 

 

Up until this point, I haven't looked at your opener. You were doing well until that point. If I compare that to your other boomkin in the raid, that's the biggest difference.  You both had phenomenal DoT uptimes and SS usage (he had 99% on both and a few less SS procs than you), but he used all his CDs when they were available, including his trinket, and a second potion. Aside from this, he has a better trinket than you and a better weapon, and his weapon is enchanted.

 

Now, let's look at the opener, and we find another major place you need to fix. Yours couldn't have been more wrong, and Kat's was spot-on. Go read my guide at the top of the druid forums and take the link directly to the opener section. Fix this stuff and you should be at about 22-23k DPS or so. Until your weapon catches up, you're going to be behind Kat no matter what unless you get a huge disparity of RNG.

 

Quick summary: Use your CDs more than once, and learn the proper opener.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for taking the time to look the logs over and give me honest advice! I really appreciate it.

 

The spec hopping was caused by reading guides. Initially, when I first hit 100, the Icy-veins balance druid guide made BoP sound like a good choice, but I later saw your guide said Stellar Flare, and that caused me to switch. After being introduced to the logs site (logs aren't something I have a lot of experience with, this is my first foray into an actual raiding guild), I noticed that every balance druid who was doing well was using Euphoria, so I switched to Euphoria, to much better results. I also ended up downloading Simulation Craft, and I'm learning to use it to supplement looking at real logs. I saw when I came back to post this thread that you've since updated your guide to redact the Stellar Flare statement, and why.

 

I'll definitely take your advice on the macro, and change it to just CA and Berserking, it does make a lot more sense to do it that way.

 

I'll read up on the opener in your guide and make sure to get a lot of practice in on it, and be more diligent with the cool downs. I'm too used to shadowpriest, where cool downs just weren't really a thing, and I've got years of bad habits to break. Since that log, I've also gotten the bleed enchant on my weapon  for the moment (not ideal but better than nothing, for sure).

 

Again, thank you so much for your time, I was afraid I was doing a lot more wrong than I was (though what you saw I was doing wrong was quite major).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you use WeakAuras or Tell Me When, set yourself up reminders for cooldowns.  I use WA for everything on all of my characters including my DoT durations, trinket procs, CD availability (defensive and offensive), etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have been reading this thread and im wondering, how do i know if im underperforming? I did a normal run dpsing up to the last boss and I did around 15k.  Did 11k on the second to last boss but then i was soaking orbs so the boss was out of range for a long while some times. I use the one futherst to the right (have forgoten the name) just beacuse I just cant keep track of everyting with the other two, it works fine on the dummie but as soon as im in a dungeon or raid (the few times I actually gets to dps in a raid) it just gets to fast and to messy for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have been reading this thread and im wondering, how do i know if im underperforming? I did a normal run dpsing up to the last boss and I did around 15k.  Did 11k on the second to last boss but then i was soaking orbs so the boss was out of range for a long while some times. I use the one futherst to the right (have forgoten the name) just beacuse I just cant keep track of everyting with the other two, it works fine on the dummie but as soon as im in a dungeon or raid (the few times I actually gets to dps in a raid) it just gets to fast and to messy for me. 

Boomkin scales much better with gear, getting all that mastery will boost your dps up a lot. You have displacer beast and dash so what I do is I let my group know I got the orb in the back and I keep dpsing until it's about 1/2 way down and I go blink over and run into it as it hits. I'm comfortable in my ability to get that orb when is needed, but I'm not standing under it for 20 seconds doing nothing waiting for it to come down. Are you talking about a talent when you say one furthest to the right? Confused about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeha the lvl 100 talent furthest to the right (the one that refreshes the dots atomaticly more or less), sorry about that. And true, dident think about using dash and templar beast..was the first time i was soaking it so i figure it was better to stand there and not miss it then do better dps :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Logs not available, but I saw good results last night. Not yet where I need to be, but improving! Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Balance of Power is a significant DPS loss in every situtation. You would need to have so many targets up 100% of the time that you'd never be able to get Stellar Flare up on even a third of them. In short, you're never going to see that.

 

The best indicator if you're underperforming is to look through your logs.  Look at exactly the things I posted I looked through - are your DoT uptimes poor, are you not using Starsurge and Starfall enough, are you using your cooldowns, are you botching your opener? If all of that is correct, you have to look for casting the wrong spells, casting SS too soon when you have an empowerment still up, etc.

 

The assumption should always be that you are underperforming, because it's always true.  Unless you're playing at such a level that you actually compete in world or US progression (by which I mean have a realistic chance at a kill, not just claiming you're racing), you're always doing something wrong, no matter how tiny. If you actually want to do better, you have to go through your logs. Even those guys do it, too.

 

There are some occasions where you have to sacrifice your DPS to do a mechanic, but if you want to be good you have to be able to do both. Always reread your talents and your spellbook to look for better ways to do a fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About casting SS to much, is it only in the opener that you cast it 2 after echother? Beacsue I do that as soon as I have 3 up again or if it is close to geting refilled. Like I have one charge left on say 5 sec of the cd, I get a proc so I got 2 charges then I use them both so I got 0 charges beacuse I will get one shortly after.  Sorry Zweena for cindof taking your thread.

Edited by Delaila

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And, tonight:

 

Mythic Kargath - 19,642 dps

Heroic Kargath - 22,286 dps

 

Both logs are here. Did all 7 in heroic, but just referencing the Kargath logs since that's what was looked at before.

 

DoT uptime suffered on mythic, probably due to target swapping to the cat. Heroic's probably a prettier number because the fight was half as long and uptime was better.

 

Got 2x potion uses in on each fight, forgot to pop my trinket when it was up, but had it macro'd to my CA as backup. I need to work on that.  Used my cooldowns 3 times total on mythic, and twice on heroic, so that's improved.

 

I'm uncertain if I've fixed the opener issue, and feedback on that (or any of it, really) is welcome, thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with not having moonfire in your opener macro, if it's awkward for you and you prefer not to use it then you can have two macros, but I'd rather refresh dots and not have to worry about refreshing it halfway through CA and focus on my casts to maximize damage.

 

Also Nature's Vigil isn't a huge healing cooldown to be saved, you should be using it off cooldown to assist in raid healing, there's maybe two situations where it might be better to hold onto it for a specific moment, but even then it doesn't matter. You're going to help more by getting 5-8 NV's in instead of 2-3 the entire fight. It's also very hard to discern when is the best time to even NV without causing a hiccup in your rotation so just bind that to your filler spells and opener macro tbh. Even Lappe uses the NV/MF opener macro, there's no way it hurts you. Plus with all your buffs up and spells hitting harder, that equals more healing.

 

Dot uptimes will just get better as you familiarize yourself with the fight, I don't know of anyone going into a new fight and getting amazing uptimes their first few attempts. Most important thing is to recognize where your uptime suffered and it seems like you have a good idea.

 

Not putting you in the stands is a waste, but whatever. I've noticed some boomkins starting with starfall on the opener, I guess it helps for that awkward moment when you cap out trying to burn your lunar emps during CA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other boomkin went into the stands. Would two in the stands be advantageous, or is the raid better served with variety up there?

I believe the other boomkin and I also both had lower ilvls than most of the group they sent up, though we both got a healthy number of upgrades last night. (I went from 649 to 655, and the other boomkin saw an even greater leap in ilvl).

Edited by Zweena

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with not having moonfire in your opener macro, if it's awkward for you and you prefer not to use it then you can have two macros, but I'd rather refresh dots and not have to worry about refreshing it halfway through CA and focus on my casts to maximize damage.

 

Also Nature's Vigil isn't a huge healing cooldown to be saved, you should be using it off cooldown to assist in raid healing, there's maybe two situations where it might be better to hold onto it for a specific moment, but even then it doesn't matter. You're going to help more by getting 5-8 NV's in instead of 2-3 the entire fight. It's also very hard to discern when is the best time to even NV without causing a hiccup in your rotation so just bind that to your filler spells and opener macro tbh. Even Lappe uses the NV/MF opener macro, there's no way it hurts you. Plus with all your buffs up and spells hitting harder, that equals more healing.

 

Dot uptimes will just get better as you familiarize yourself with the fight, I don't know of anyone going into a new fight and getting amazing uptimes their first few attempts. Most important thing is to recognize where your uptime suffered and it seems like you have a good idea.

 

Not putting you in the stands is a waste, but whatever. I've noticed some boomkins starting with starfall on the opener, I guess it helps for that awkward moment when you cap out trying to burn your lunar emps during CA.

 

It's a waste to refresh your DoTs at the start of CA mid-fight. The best situation is to be able to use the very last part of a GCD on it before CA expires rather than cut into your time to cast nukes during CA. I will guarantee you Lappe doesn't use that one macro every single time CA comes up. You also can't go off of what a particular person does in bleeding edge progression like it's the definitive way to do everything in many cases, simply because there's a whole big picture to fights that you miss just by watching their POV video in terms of strat, things they decided were necessary for this reason or that reason during progression, etc.

 

NV doesn't do much healing, you're right, but it's also not worth wasting. Using it at the start of a fight like Kargath where there's nothing going on but some tank damage is just silly. Also, I don't know what fight you think you're getting 5-8 NVs in on besides Imperator, but most fights Berserk timers will stop you from even getting 5.  There's wiggle room to work with, and there's no point in wasting a CD on minimal or no damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By molodirazz
      All applications will be reviewed and considered however if you are playing a class/spec combination we need then your chances of joining will be higher.
      A little bit of info about us:
      We are a group of friends and serious raiders on EU Twisting Nether looking to recruit skilled like-minded players into our roster for Mythic Legion raids. We will offer a sociable and fun raiding environment while maintaining a strong desire for progression. Our Discord is very active and we encourage all members to chat and play together not only for raids.

      We currently raid Wednesday, Sunday and Tuesday 19:00-22:00 server time. We run social/alt raids during off days in which all ranks of the guild are welcome to come to. Our members also play other games outside raid times together where anyone is also welcome to join(LoL, Dota, HotS, Overwatch etc.).
      Our loot system for Mythic is RC Loot Council.
      What we expect from you:
      - We are a raiding guild with a 3 days a week schedule that you are expected to attend. However we understand things can come up but please let us know.
      - Be able to speak and understand the English language and not be afraid to communicate with other members during raids.
      - Actively doing dungeons and world quests to gear in preparation for raids. This includes improving your artifact weapon.
      - Have a strong understanding of the current raid tier and be able to play your class to it's potential.
      - Always come to raids prepared (i.e. bringing food and potions, etc).
      - Come fully gemmed and enchanted with the correct stats for your class and spec.
      - Access to Discord and a working microphone.
      - Have a computer that can handle 20 man raiding.
      - Exorsus Raid Tools and RC Loot Council addons installed. We may ask you to install others.
      ____________________________________________________
      To join into our current main raids
      - 865 ilvl
      - 25 traits at the very least.
      - Experience on 4 or more bosses in EN Mythic.
      You will receive a response within 3 days but probably within 1. The trial process will last 2 weeks, sometimes longer. During the trial period you will not have loot priority over raiders however you may of course still roll.
      If you have any further questions please contact us at battletags: Vims#21684  or go to our website http://asylum-tn.enjin.com/ .
      __________________________________________________________________________________
      We're currently looking for the classes below but may consider other classes as well.
      All applications will be reviewed and considered however if you are playing a class/spec combination we need then your chances of joining will be higher.
      A little bit of info about us:
      We are a group of friends and serious raiders on EU Twisting Nether looking to recruit skilled like-minded players into our roster for Mythic Legion raids. We will offer a sociable and fun raiding environment while maintaining a strong desire for progression. Our Discord is very active and we encourage all members to chat and play together not only for raids.

      We currently raid Wednesday, Sunday and Tuesday 19:00-22:00 server time. We run social/alt raids during off days in which all ranks of the guild are welcome to come to. Our members also play other games outside raid times together where anyone is also welcome to join(LoL, Dota, HotS, Overwatch etc.).
      Our loot system for Mythic is RC Loot Council.
      What we expect from you:
      - We are a raiding guild with a 3 days a week schedule that you are expected to attend. However we understand things can come up but please let us know.
      - Be able to speak and understand the English language and not be afraid to communicate with other members during raids.
      - Actively doing dungeons and world quests to gear in preparation for raids. This includes improving your artifact weapon.
      - Have a strong understanding of the current raid tier and be able to play your class to it's potential.
      - Always come to raids prepared (i.e. bringing food and potions, etc).
      - Come fully gemmed and enchanted with the correct stats for your class and spec.
      - Access to Discord and a working microphone.
      - Have a computer that can handle 20 man raiding.
      - Exorsus Raid Tools and RC Loot Council addons installed. We may ask you to install others.
      ____________________________________________________
      To join into our current main raids
      - 865 ilvl
      - 25 traits at the very least.
      - Experience on 4 or more bosses in EN Mythic.
      You will receive a response within 3 days but probably within 1. The trial process will last 2 weeks, sometimes longer. During the trial period you will not have loot priority over raiders however you may of course still roll.
      If you have any further questions please contact us at battletags: Vims#21684 or go to our website http://asylum-tn.enjin.com/ .
      __________________________________________________________________________________
      We're currently looking for the classes below but may consider other classes as well.
      Druid: Restoration And Balance.
      Monk: Mistweaver.
      Shaman: Restoration.
      Hunter: One.
      Other dps will also be considered.
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Jade Druid No Giants Gadgetzan Standard Deck.
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Budget Jade Druid Gadgetzan Standard Deck.
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Jade Druid Standard Deck
    • By Gidster
      Hey so I have starting Mythic progression and I just feel like I should be doing more DPS at my item level but I don't know if it is my Rotation or Stat priority.
      I'm looking at the logs and I feel like I should be doing more DPS in my current gear with is 874 with 22% Crit 29% Haste 46% Mastery