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Moonsunier

Restoration Druid Healing Issues

44 posts in this topic

Hi All,

 

It has recently come to my attention that my healing is not as good as it should be as a restoration druid,especially at my ilv (which is 655). I seem to only be doing 3.6k with reju ticks (whilst harmony is up) and only 2.5k with wild mushroom. I saw a much less geared rdruid doing about double that. I did beet him on hps but I think that is just because I know the class better. I am really struggling now to keep up on hc's hps with my best being 34k on butcher and I went oom at the end (unlike the other healers). Is this a gear related issue or do I need to link in a log so you guys can see what I am doing wrong?

 

Armory:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bladefist/Moonsunier/simple

 

Thank you very much!

 

Moonsunier,Bladefist,EU

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Intellect.. or lack of it [you need logs to show how your going oom with 1100+ spirit + the spirit trinket though] I've got 400+ More INT at the same ilvl [which is something stupid like 8% output] + Cheap enchants [and no weapon enchant] means your stacking spirit on trinkets [both of which IMO are garbage]

 

Your only 652 [not 655] but thats irrelevant  healing wise, assuming your numbers above are right at 652 raid buffed my rejuv is 4633 a tick, Mushroom is 4586 a tick [not including any crit/multistrike etc]

Edited by Brady84

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But what pieces of gear do I need to improve to increase my int. As far as I see the only things are the weap and legs which would only increase it by around 300. 

How on earth do you do that?! I mean I am frankly quite stuck as to how I should go as to improve my int and stuff.

I don't really know how to set up a log on Warfcraftlogs though I will try. 

I do not really go oom anymore so that is not an issue. Some of my gear I need to change but which ones?! (I have tried for weap for 3 weeks and still haven't got it).

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Trinkets pretty much, from a purely output stat weight, INT is worth 2x what mastery/haste are and close to 3x what ms/crit/vs are

 

http://www.wowhead.com/item=118880 or 

http://www.wowhead.com/item=113859&bonus=0 or

http://www.wowhead.com/item=113835/shards-of-nothing&bonus=0

 

are better than both your current trinkets

 

Your 630 could be replaced by a ton than drop in HC Dungeons & LFR [and technically if your not oom the 630 INT/Mastery is better than winged hourglass as well]

 

http://www.wowhead.com/item=116290&bonus=0

http://www.wowhead.com/item=110000&bonus=524

http://www.wowhead.com/item=110001&bonus=524

 

Expensive gems/enchants will get you 1% or so output, but getting rid of that multistrike/spirit trinket should be top priority (Spirit is a good stat) but replacing that with the 630 int/mastery trinket would give you ~4% increased healing output, If you need more spirit replace your 2nd ring with haste/spirit or mastery/spirit

 

You can set dbm up to auto log all raid bosses [above lfr difficulty] or just type /combatlog into chat and it records everything until you log out or type it again

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/magtheridon/Homsil/advanced

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RFjbhmdAyQ4rqZ7Y#type=healing

Edited by Brady84

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Ok.

So after reading this, I basically have to do some hc's and get the gear whilst doing HM and hope to get trinkets and stuff?

 

Also I will send out a log tomorrow so you guys can tell me what else I am doing wrong

 

Thanks for all your effort!

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Ok.

So after reading this, I basically have to do some hc's and get the gear whilst doing HM and hope to get trinkets and stuff?

 

Also I will send out a log tomorrow so you guys can tell me what else I am doing wrong

 

Thanks for all your effort!

 

A Log would be awesome, I'll probs be doing 6/7N tonight so will log that [and I dont think i'm a great player] but if you also log similar fights it will give you genuine numbers & comparison for spell output, I see your weapon dropped (congrats) so the only think left are the legs and at least 1 trinket

 

Leg wise its 670>655>640+ Socket>636+ Socket> 630+Socket>640>636>630> Better than your 620

 

Technically swapping the back haste enchant for mastery would increase output as well, but not by a significant enough number to be wasting gold on it [also depends if you plan on replacing it with mastery/spirit]

Edited by Brady84

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Hiya,

 

Yes I do understand the thing about the legs. I have been trying all week and as you know legs only drop from Imp. I beet him in norm and I did not get it so the only other thing I could do is pay for one which frankly I do not have the gold for. I will try to post a log of one of the norm bosses or early hc bosses (just because hc bosses is what I am doing now).

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Hey guys a little update. I got legs from a guildie so now my int is about 3.5k so raid buffed reju ticks for about 4.3k (much higher then the previous 3k yesterday). Also a question about spirit, my priest just got the rune of rapid replication and his spirit is now 1.4k...does this mean I should not use the winged hourglass as his spirit is already insanely high?

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Was gonna say just to do HC Dungeons for legs tbh, but if you have a set now its fine.

 

Out of interest what is the mana regen [mp5] with that much spirit? (I'm obsessed with the math behind things Sorry biggrin.png)

 

Based on my Paladin (Assuming there all the same, but will relog and check my druid just now)

 

Standard 782 Spirit regens 4811 per 5s (962/s) (1.23 mana per second per 1 spirit)

1178 (+396 Spirit from gear) regens 5627 per 5s (1125.4/s) (0.95 mana per second per 1 spirit)

So the 396 Extra Spirit actually gives you very little (5627-4811 = 813 mp5 (162.6/s) for 396 spirit (0.4 mana per second per 1 spirit) 

 

Over the coarse of say a 5min fight, 396 spirit regens you an extra 48780 Spirit [sounds HUGE ] the same in mastery would give you 4% increase in output ~400k [which with 50k spirit you would be able to easily cast that amount]

 

TLDR: Math says my idea is wrong, and Spirit > EVERYTHING until the point where theres no risk of oom

 

[1400 + winged hourglass + weapon enchant sounds crazy, but you can prob "undergear" content because your lack of actual output is made up by the fact you have enough mana for the fight to last an extra couple of minutes]

 

I'm between 1000-1100 on My Druid & Holy Paladin after dropping spirit for other gear [higher ilvl or static int]

Edited by Brady84

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Right well I will check but It really cannot be that high. My disc priest has 1.3k spirit (I understand that is INSANELY high for 645 ilv) and his regen is 6.02k so I basically can spam flash heal all dayxD I will check but it will be around 5.2k which means that it will take 1.5 sec to get mana for a regrowth (if that is how spirit works).

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Not sure if you logged any fights, but heres my 6/7N 1/7H & Butcher(H) wreck, to compare to, or for anyone else to point out the obvious as to why we're having so much trouble killing Butcher on HC

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CZxVXpPQfyahvJcB#boss=-3

 

EDIT: I died about 1/2 way through the tectus fight as I was in the middle of a tranq and didnt realise the "stone pillar" would 1 shot me, lesson learned

Edited by Brady84

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Haha. I have not done the log as I did not really understand the instructions on the post and I think it kind of flopped. Anyway healing wise im now doing 30k on imp norm bfor part 4 which I think is pretty good!

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I never run imp because i'm either in pugs,and both the main tanks in my guild are away on holiday, if you install deadly boss mobs

 

tpye /dbm into the chat, options, extra features and tick the 2 auto logging options

 

it then creates a txt file in your wow install folder/logs/combatlog.txt

 

Warcraftlogs or Worldoflogs, once u register on the site has a download you install it and it turns your jumble of a txt file into the likes of above

 

It also gives you "rankings" where you can see how you compare to everybody else playing the same class/spec as you so its a good way to judge your personal performance [granted only against other people who have uploaded logs] but according to that 14602 resto druids have killed normal butcher and i'm 198th for HPS #GoMe biggrin.png

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A question about the Winged Hour Glass trinket since it's being mentioned here.

 

When fully upgraded to 3/3 how good of an improvement will it be over the other trinkets? On this site it has the 3/3 WHG higer than the Everburning Candle. is it because of the sheer spirit you gain with the passive int attached to it or is it overrated? Asking this because I have an Everburning Candle and am contemplating spending money to upgrade the WHG and be done with trinkets for a while.

 

EDIT: Won't be doing highmaul hc anytime soon with my guild.

Edited by Destiny1979

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AOn this site it has the 3/3 WHG higer than the Everburning Candle. is it because of the sheer spirit you gain with the passive int attached to it or is it overrated? Asking this because I have an Everburning Candle and am contemplating spending money to upgrade the WHG and be done with trinkets for a while.

 

 

Its the sheer spirit, on top of the static int [which is easily best stat]

 

IMO

 

Everburning Candle is prob still bis even if you have both heroic drops from imperator [even without the 10k mana regen because of the pure +INT]

 

For Kargath/Bracken where you should have little mana issues Winged Hourglass is totally overkill & http://www.wowhead.com/item=113859&bonus=0 is Bis followed by http://www.wowhead.com/item=113835&bonus=0

 

For the other 5 bosses, it depends on your ilvl/build and the rest of your gear I suppose, If you go oom, it doesnt matter how much your spells heal for if you cant cast them,

 

Assuming a 5min fight [2min cd so 2 procs, possibly 3 if it procs early] on top of ALL other mana regen

 

http://www.wowhead.com/item=112317/winged-hourglass&bonus=527 29504 mana [2procs] 44256 mana [3procs]

http://www.wowhead.com/item=113854&bonus=0 36120 mana

http://www.wowhead.com/item=112317/winged-hourglass&bonus=525 22336 mana [2procs] 33504 mana [3procs]

 

The 175INT is worth miles more than 134Haste & 134 Versatility & theres probably an arguement somewhere to say that the 640 version is also better [since I have http://www.wowhead.com/item=113835&bonus=560 & the candle I might just buy the 640 WH and test since its only 8k or so]

 

TLDR: 670 WH is BiS for 5 of the fights assuming your not vastly overgeared [& also might allow use of a +1000int potion instead of 35k mana]

 

Feel free to disagree with me :)

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For the other 5 bosses, it depends on your ilvl/build and the rest of your gear I suppose, If you go oom, it doesnt matter how much your spells heal for if you cant cast them,

You could also say the opposite about managing mana more efficiently or having your raid avoid damage more effectively. Hamlet always ingrained into me (at least pre mop) spirit is never the answer to your mana problems. In wod it's slightly different since there's not much choice in some areas, but the same can be applied.

By using spirit, you're effectively reducing your raw output in favor of more abundant spells. If you find that your overhealing a lot, you need to first try to reduce that amount before adding more spirit.

Spirit is a crutch to help your longevity, you always only need as much as it will last you.

With trinkets it's always a very special case, you need to weigh fight by fight (as Brady was saying) to determine what you need. Never throw away trinkets and use them to see how they effect your longevity vs output.

Lastly, in the LONG run, this all means nothing. The way you play will make up a significantly larger portion of your longevity. This talk you do here is SHORT term (I.e. Specific sections of a fight vs the whole fight or set of fights)

Play with trinkets for the short term, but don't expect it to impact the long term. If you need mana, find where you can change how you heal or make decisions before falling to spirit.

---

This is going to be a separate section because I feel this pertains to warlords specifically with the way enchants and gems works.

In GENERAL, I will say the only exception to the above is your weapon enchant. The reason is because for healers, proc throughput is near useless. It will proc when it's not useful, and it will mostly not proc when it would be, while spirit would ALWAYS be useful.

You can still apply the same above, but proc based throughput is so vastly underwhelming for a healer since you never know when it will come up and largely based on RNG, while proc based regen is for the most part, 100% effective all the time.

(note: I use a mastery enchant personally, only because I play boomkin on a frequent bases and have yet to get a second staff to enchant for a more optimized gear set)

--

Here is Hamlets post on this blog: http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/2012/10/08/why-more-spirit-is-not-the-answer-to-your-healing-problems/

It is /very/ dated (over 2 years old) but it's the basic ideas you should have about healing and longevity. In warlords, most of what is said has become less true mainly because spirit has a much larger impact than before, but the way you play even now still accounts for a huge portion of your mana.

I would very much suggest you read through some of his most recent warlords posts, one of which was earlier in the month of December: (http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/2014/12/22/healing-theory-warlords-spirit-update/)

Which is an update to the "available mana" to a healer with upcoming gear in BRF and even now in highmaul (I also suggest reading is older posts on the same subject that it linked in his blog)

Again, he is not flat out advising you should gear all spirit, more showing what is potentially avaliable for players as they get more gear.

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Heck, his most recent post shows that there is a lot more potential mana than was expected before the raid was released because of trinket buffs and nerfs. In general, just get spirit on most peices but don't try to worry about your spirit amount.

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Thank you both for the responses.

 

It makes sense to switch trinkets for more throughput during Kargath and Brackenspore. By luck the http://www.wowhead.com/item=113835&bonus=0dropped for me and my only concern about this trinket is how to treat/use it. As a mini cooldown on it's own or in conjunction with something else?

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I say just use is as a mini cooldown. Make a weak aura so you know when it's up and make a point to use it when you got a lot of outgoing healing (a bunch of rejuvs, your mushroom, maybe a WG) it gives a nice boost

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You could also say the opposite about managing mana more efficiently or having your raid avoid damage more effectively. Hamlet always ingrained into me (at least pre mop) spirit is never the answer to your mana problems. In wod it's slightly different since there's not much choice in some areas, but the same can be applied.

By using spirit, you're effectively reducing your raw output in favor of more abundant spells. If you find that your overhealing a lot, you need to first try to reduce that amount before adding more spirit.

Spirit is a crutch to help your longevity, you always only need as much as it will last you.

With trinkets it's always a very special case, you need to weigh fight by fight (as Brady was saying) to determine what you need. Never throw away trinkets and use them to see how they effect your longevity vs output.

I would very much suggest you read through some of his most recent warlords posts, one of which was earlier in the month of December: (http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/2014/12/22/healing-theory-warlords-spirit-update/)

 

 

I had a quick look through the above blog will bookmark it and have a proper read through it all later

 

I agree about mana management etc, If your going oom because your 50% overheal then its something you need to work on, At least based on my experience in HM [normal & Heroic] There are bosses and situations [raid setup, lack of dps, undergeared/bad players] where you quite simply need to trade output for spirit

 

As a healer i suppose theres not much you can do about it, I'd like to [and planned to] run as little as possible spirit, Actually only had 1 spirit ring & no spirit on trinkets (Back to 2 rings, as the 661 WF was an upgrade]

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RFjbhmdAyQ4rqZ7Y#type=healing

This was a random pug group, from a pure numbers point of view I'm in top 94% for HPS [and top 5 on my realm] with 14% overheal, 15 casts of wrath [with no doc] shows I spent 30s+ (~10% of the fights) scrapping around with next to 0 mana [Granted theres an arguement to say this is because of other players, but at a progression stage I have to still take responsibility for myself so e.g. WH or any other spirit trinket would have increased my overall output]

 

Running with my guild I'm roughly 20-30% overheal a fight, I have no idea if this is a normal amount, or excessive tbh so havent drastically adjusted my playstyle

 

In reality I think at least while I'm running HM I'm going to end up having 2 sets of gear for healing, Switching Rings & Trinkets out on a fight by fight basis [and depending on the group] 

 

TLDR: Spirit compensates for both you & your group, generally the better they are the less you need [although depends on raid setup as i normally 3heal 18-20man]

 

As for the trinket, I actually despise it [as i've gone right off haste] but cant replace it as the static int is too good, its like 14% haste so prob rotate it with ITOL for the increased Rejuv/WG output and faster casting speed of RG [or any other time where your going to rejuv spam ie cleave on butcher or rejuv mushroom on brack]

Edited by Brady84

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I got a mythic spirit and on use haste trinket from my Garrison mission yesterday. I'm kinda forced to use that now lol.

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Well thank you guys for all your help. I will try and set up the log. Mana is still quite an issue for me but I think I am overhealing a bit too much. I also have the problem of getting sniped which just means my hps flops and mana gets wasted.

Edited by Moonsunier

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I also have the problem of getting sniped which just means my hps flops and mana gets wasted.

 

If the healers aren't coordinated, this is just an unfortunate thing that will happen to Resto Druids sometimes, as other healers spike and/or shield people (I'm looking at you, Disc Priests!). There are limits to what you can do about it, but it's definately a good thing that you can identify the problem and can do your best to send your hots where they will actually be used for the full duration.

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Now I am just really annoyed. It has come to the point where I a mbegin kicked at brackenspore for doing like 32k hps on hc. They say that is too low but then I counter saying that Bracken is a fight where it is whoever heals the shrooms first and pops def ds and keeps stuff up on tanks, is who is top, so I get sniped half the time. Is this rue or should my hps be higher...still having problem with logs but I will try to post one up.

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