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Shocking DPS (Comparitively)

10 replies to this topic Started by Agrobane, Nov 02 2012 02:05 PM
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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:05 PM

#1
Agrobane
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Hi everyone,
I'm new here so be gentle with me...
Have been playing Wow for years now, mostly as Fury Warrior (TG) but have started raiding seriously recently and can't belive I'm last on the horrid DPS meter every single raid.
Here's the link to me on Battle Net http://eu.battle.net...robane/advanced.

I've been following the rotation as per the Omnipotent Mr Veins, Mr Robot likes the build, and - more importantly -experienced MDPS raiders in the guild have played along side me and inspected the logs etc and I'm not making any horrendous/obvious errors - but I still can't crack 40K (damage done) in a raid.

Questions:
1) Is this purely because I have a pair of 463 Weaps - Fury scales with gear (particularly Weap upgrades) so it's a big chunk of the issue?
2) Dancing Steel over Windsong? I can't decide or get a difinite answer.
3) Am I the only one getting this Raid DPS prob? I see Prot warriors doing well, but being DPS Warrior and having to remain mobile is destroying the numbers...
4) Help? Please - I really dont want the guild thinking of me as a de-buff anymore and I want to hit stuff in the face like a real man without being ashamed of the stupid meters post-raid inspection.

All help most welcome. Thanks to all contributing/responding.

Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:07 PM

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Scrounger
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as usual, logs would help ;)

besides that, after a quick look at your armory i didnt see any major flaws. I personally like having a bit higher hit rating over mastery, but im not entirely sure if that is really a dps gain. Regarding weapon enchats: I've seen similar results with both of them. Did you simulate your armory with simcraft or something similar, just to identify major differences with your priority list damage distribution?

Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:32 PM

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Vlad
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Hi everyone,
I'm new here so be gentle with me...
Have been playing Wow for years now, mostly as Fury Warrior (TG) but have started raiding seriously recently and can't belive I'm last on the horrid DPS meter every single raid.
Here's the link to me on Battle Net http://eu.battle.net...robane/advanced.

I've been following the rotation as per the Omnipotent Mr Veins, Mr Robot likes the build, and - more importantly -experienced MDPS raiders in the guild have played along side me and inspected the logs etc and I'm not making any horrendous/obvious errors - but I still can't crack 40K (damage done) in a raid.

Questions:
1) Is this purely because I have a pair of 463 Weaps - Fury scales with gear (particularly Weap upgrades) so it's a big chunk of the issue?
2) Dancing Steel over Windsong? I can't decide or get a difinite answer.
3) Am I the only one getting this Raid DPS prob? I see Prot warriors doing well, but being DPS Warrior and having to remain mobile is destroying the numbers...
4) Help? Please - I really dont want the guild thinking of me as a de-buff anymore and I want to hit stuff in the face like a real man without being ashamed of the stupid meters post-raid inspection.

All help most welcome. Thanks to all contributing/responding.


Hey.

You are right that your armory seems in order, and Mr. Robot seems happy with you too. Dancing Steel is best but frankly, unless you're doing cutting edge progression, it's a waste of money on a blue weapon.

Without being able to look at logs, I can only tell you limited things, but what I will say is that weapons do make a huge contribution to your DPS as a melee, and maybe especially so as a Warrior. So, this will definitely hold you back, and since your weapons are somewhat in stark contrast with the rest of your gear, you'll feel unnaturally gimped.

Overall, Fury Warriors aren't topping any meters right now (obviously, there are exceptions), but they're in a pretty good place overall, and there's no reason why you should be bottom of the charts consistently just because of your class/spec.

Assuming that you are indeed doing things right (again, can't check much without logs), then you could look at any of the following factors for affecting your DPS/position on the DPS meter.
  • You have a low uptime on the targets (whether because you are slow to zero in on a new target, or because it takes you a long time to realize that you need to switch etc.)
  • You have (severe?) latency issues, which cause you to waste global cooldowns/idle. Provided that there's no latency, you might have some "brain latency", in other words you aren't mashing your keys hard enough so that not even a split second goes by without you using an ability.
  • You are executing the tactics wrong, even though your rotation is good. For example, if you're spending any amount of time attacking a guardian with Solid Stone on The Stone Guard, or attacking an Emperor's Courage from the front on Will of the Emperor, yes, your DPS will go down.
  • You are not being good enough at attacking the targets from behind, thus getting parried a lot. I'm currently raiding on a melee DPS and I can say that I'm having more trouble than usual telling which way the bosses are even facing, what with them constantly turning around to cast spells at raid members/tank movement, and a whole lot of spell effects going on on their models (25 man).
Finally, your position on the DPS charts relative to the rest of your raid obviously also depends on their gear levels. Do they all have epic (even LFR) weapons? Are even the ones with blues/lower gear than you consistently beating you?

Posted 02 November 2012 - 04:13 PM

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Agrobane
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Thanks to both Scrounger and Vlad for responses so quickly - I'll get some logs posted here when I get out of work in a few hours so you can have a look into the detail - if you dont mind.
As far as latency goes, no issues there.
The rest of the guild raids in equip thats overall around the same level, but I do strongly suspect I'm one of only a few with a blue main weap - and they're mostly ranged (hitting 50k - 60k standing on one leg seemingly.)
As for postitioning/learning the raid to maximise the DPS - this is always an issue - a big one. All I can say in response is that I've raided all of the available raids every week since MoP, I don't feel like I'm particularly bad at any of the things you mention. Have been Fury Warrior for years so I always do it from behind (smirk.) I give the tank three seconds to get agro then use Charge to get in there, start the dps quickly and buld a little rage, and I read up on boss tactics. I hate the Elegon fight but I dont think I'm the only MDPS that hates the shocking levels of mobility expected from us on that one...
Maybe the logs will give you more insight - I'm genuinely interested to get your feedback and help.

Posted 02 November 2012 - 04:54 PM

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Hey man, I've played fury my entire WoW career up until MoP. I do plan to return to fury when my crit is where it needs to be but with a low crit rating (under 20% UB imo) I felt the need to go arms. Like you, I was lagging behind terribly on the charts until I made this change. Now, as arms, I'm top 2 usually and have ranked on 4 bosses from MV. Fury seems too crit dependant to try with low crit rating, but this is just one warrior's opinion. BTW, turns out arms is kinda fun.

Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:03 PM

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Vlad
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Thanks to both Scrounger and Vlad for responses so quickly - I'll get some logs posted here when I get out of work in a few hours so you can have a look into the detail - if you dont mind.
As far as latency goes, no issues there.
The rest of the guild raids in equip thats overall around the same level, but I do strongly suspect I'm one of only a few with a blue main weap - and they're mostly ranged (hitting 50k - 60k standing on one leg seemingly.)
As for postitioning/learning the raid to maximise the DPS - this is always an issue - a big one. All I can say in response is that I've raided all of the available raids every week since MoP, I don't feel like I'm particularly bad at any of the things you mention. Have been Fury Warrior for years so I always do it from behind (smirk.) I give the tank three seconds to get agro then use Charge to get in there, start the dps quickly and buld a little rage, and I read up on boss tactics. I hate the Elegon fight but I dont think I'm the only MDPS that hates the shocking levels of mobility expected from us on that one...
Maybe the logs will give you more insight - I'm genuinely interested to get your feedback and help.


Eagerly waiting on the logs.

Regarding Elegon, I will say that I found the fight frustrating initially, but quite fun afterwards (I play a Death Knight). I had the advantage of being able to cheese Total Annihilation with Anti-Magic Shell, which you sadly don't have. But you have far superior mobility, which should allow you to do some neat things.

I don't know if this is still the case, but on the Beta, charging while inside the Inner Ring removed your Overcharged stacks. And you can probably have good uptime with Charge and Heroic Leap, getting from add to boss, and out of the Inner Ring when needed and so on.

Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:45 PM

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Agrobane
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Hi Guys, Sadly there are no logs, I thought the guild was signed up for Wow Logs but they're havent been using it for a long time now apparently... Apologies to those who kindly offered to look at them for me. I wrote a few simple Macros to drop my buffs with a lot fewer keys this morning, and to tie Berserker Rage and Colossus Smash together, then ran LFR and hit an average of 41K for the last 3 bosses, so thats a little better. I'm strongly suspecting from your answers that it's a combination of the 463 weaps, fury being hard dps at the moment anyway, and possibly due to the amount of haste I have on the gear. What I wouldnt give to turn that some or all of that into crit! - so whilst the gear ilevel is high, it doesnt have great stats for me by being loaded with haste and mastery. Thanks all for your input and feedback, but I know without the logs theres no real way to look into this any more deeply. Your comments have all helped a great deal - thank you.

Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:27 PM

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To use a macro which ties Colossus and Berserker Rage, will make you, if unlucky, get two enrages in a row. Maybe three as well if you cast Bloodthirst after the Colossus Macro you've made. You should never use Berserker Rage unless you don't get the enrage proc from either Colossus or Bloodthirst. Lets say that you use your macro and cast bloodthirst afterwards, then you'll get enrage 100% sure. But if you don't get the Colossus Smash proc which makes you cast it again, and your next Bloodthirst doesn't proc the Enrage buff, you'll be casting stuff without the 10% increased dmg buff. If you didn't do the Berserker Rage together with Colossus Smash in the start, you could now cast the Berserker Rage to get the Enrage buff, which will be a major dmg increase.

At least this is how i use my Berserker Rage. Feel free to prove me wrong Posted Image

Edited by Furryous, 03 November 2012 - 04:29 PM.

Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:45 PM

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Agrobane
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Furryous, you were absolutely right! This is what happens when you write Macros at 4am, you make silly mistakes. I lost a tonne of flexibility by tieing these together, and the macro has now been destroyed, never to be seen again. I have had something of a revelation though. I've re-sepecced to Arms. For whatever reason, be it that Arms fits my playstyle better, I just get the rotation off better, or maybe using a single slightly poor quality weapon is better than using two slightly poor quality weapons, whatever the reason, I've gone from doing around 35k to around 50k. Problem solved - I just wish I could home in on exactly why there is this huge increase so I can share it with you all. Frankly I'm in the dark - but I thought I would just let you all know that I've found my solution, which for me, was as simple as going from Fury to Arms!

Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:39 PM

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It's purely down to your gear tbh. Fury is very crit dependent as you enrage off the critical's to Colossus Smash and Bloodthirst which ultimately lets you Raging Blow, which is pretty much the main source of damage for a Fury Warrior. Arm's is substantially more static in that the abilities proc off each other and you never have a moment where nothing is availiable. Saying all this though, Arm's is better at entry level DPS but once you get gear (Starshatter x2 or the sword of Mogu'shan Palace) and have enough crit Fury will take over in terms of high end damage. I was Arm's as I started and consistently punched out 50-60k dps on MSV bosses (70k+ on The Stone Guards because of Sweeping Strikes) and only recently got my second 2h'er with appropriate gear alongside it which allowed me to switch to Fury and already I'm doing more damage then I was in Arm's. 70k is a standard almost for me on most bosses now, but again it's mostly because I have a high enough crit value that I can get off the enrage proc's enough to use Raging Blow. Basically from what I can see and have experienced. It's better to start off with Arm's and switch to Fury once you have enough gear.

Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:58 AM

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I'm glad you found out how to deal with your DPS-issue. I would probably recommend going fury when you get some of the 489 weapons. It will probably increase your fury dps by a lot.

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