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Storm

Frost Haste Change Today

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  • Frost

    • Icy Talons now causes the Death Knight to gain 20% (up from 5%) more of the Haste stat from all sources.

 

Some were already simming haste >= multistrike for 2H frost. with this change today I'm fairly confident haste is going to be our #1 stat by a lot, at least until we reach resource cap (I have no clue what that number is just yet, but I don't think its a number we can reach in current gear.

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With the bloodboil nerf I'm looking at a 2k+ dps loss on most fights in highmaul :\ what do you believe the dps increase will be for frost with the increase haste buff

Edited by Deathdoc

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I can't get in game right now to look at exactly what my haste from items is, and I don't always trust what the armory calculates for stats, but it says I have 683 haste on gear currently so for me I'd be looking to gain about 100 rating, which is only 1% more haste, but I could see some people getting as much as a 2% haste buff from the changes today.

 

It doesn't sound like much, but we're already one of the top classes/specs and we just got a 1-2% buff for free.

 

The blood boil nerf needed to be done because Blood dps was honestly too strong in aoe situations, but 33% seems like too much. I'd rather see bloodboil stay where it was for single target, but add a diminishing return for aoe similar to howling blast, chain lightning, and many other aoe's that do less damage to targets beyond the first.

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Blood just needs to get Heart Strike back.  Frost was already better for ST than Unholy, I'm wondering if the 33% BB nerf is enough for me to swap over to 2h Frost as my DPS spec (since I'm an alternate tank for my guild, I don't have the luxury of 2 DPS specs).

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the BB nerf is just for blood, it shouldn't affect unholy. I agree though, blood needs to get a single target attack back. the blood rune situation is the one instance where I think they've gone too far trying to 'reduce bloat'

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Pretty sure the blood boil Nerf is listed for all DK specs. Well I am sure it says that. If its accurate or not is the question. As for the haste buff I see it really really making frost hate crit. With that much haste we should see a drastic increase in KM procs. Which is awesome, to be fair, but I wish they'd fix crit for us.

Edit: storm, I was one of those simming haste above multistrike but it fell to behind multi and vers when I hit about 800 haste. With this buff we might hit a soft haste cap pretty early on... Or we might have unlimited killing machine procs :)

Edited by FoxBoulder

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Oh ya, I guess it does say general, thought it said blood the first time I read it. that's a huge blow to Unholy's aoe then. It'll probably take 3+ targets for BB to be a dps gain now which could drop unholy below frost for most fights now.

 

we'll definitely need to do some more sims for haste once it's updated for the latest patch.

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Yeah, the BB nerf for Blood would be consistent with the nerfs to other tanks for AoE damage. I was expecting an adjustment to BB to Unholy as well, but 33% just seems too much, especially coming out of nowhere (may have been better off making that change on PTR than live). For multiple adds situation, it looks like DW will be higher than Unholy, but without access to weapons, Unholy would still be better than 2h, but on two target cleave like Twins and Brackenspore, 2h should be ahead of Unholy now.

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Bb is still slightly above for 2 target aoe, its just by like 1-2%. As for frost...there are too many ways this change will affect us to list while I'm at work.. Though one to mention in case any one can test is if it's still worth it to sit on runes for 2h frost or if the amount of haste we have makes it better the ignore km again

Edit: seems SS and FS got a 28% buff so it looks like BB is only better at 3-4 targets

Edited by FoxBoulder

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1/13 Hotfixes

1. Festering Strike’s damage has been increased by 28%

2. Scourge Strike’s damage has been increasedb y 28%

 

that should buff ST dps by quite a bit :)

Edited by VRDRF

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Yeah, unholy ST is now competitive with frost 2h, only slightly below. Big difference is that for 2 targets, BB spam is a dps loss. Continuing with ST rotation is better in that situation.

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For me tooltip still show old values of haste in character panel and also in spellbook Icy talons still give 5 % to haste from all sources

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So... when the dust settles, where do we stand? I have to keep one spec as blood, mildly prefer rotations in the following order: 2h > DW > UH (I'm bad at avoiding rune capping in UH, due to the tedious order in which Death runes are spent), and have comparable weapons for 2h and DW (the offhand drops a few ilevels, but I don't believe that matters much).

AIUI, 2h is a small win over UH for single-target fights, and that's before my own preferences are taken into account. What about 2-target cleave fights/phases, though? Is DW actually king there (on the base ST rotation, natch)?

Currently thinking to run Frost, using 2h for single targets, and swapping to DW for more, even mid-fight. Is that sane. Was running UH and pretty happy with it, but killing its cleave performance has turned me off the spec, rather.

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For 2/3 target cleave, Unholy with NP+UB combo is comparable with 2h. Blood boil spam becomes viable only at 4+ targets. I believe the same target threshold is when DW pulls ahead as well.

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I don't get on that well with necroblight, so it sounds like I'm running Frost for the next couple of months. Cheers.

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my SimC is also simming haste > ms.

 

so shall we now change to haste enchants or better stay at ms?

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MS is still the main stat you should go for for both unholy and frost.

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MS is still the main stat you should go for for both unholy and frost.

Haste is simming higher for most sims following recent hotfixes. So, you can go with haste gems and enchants if you have separate gear or stay with MS if you want flexibility to swap with Unholy but this is likely a slight dps loss.

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so with the new hotfixes. What are we looking at as far as Stat priority. For both DW and 2H Frost. I've been asking around and looking up and getting mixed reviews. I'm currently trying to figure out which is best for me and would like to know how to gem and enchant my toon. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/whisperwind/Rethestius/advanced

DW Frost: Str > Mastery > Multistrike > Haste > Vers > Crit

2H Frost: Str > Haste > Multistrike > Vers > Mastery > Crit

If you DW (currently not recommended), get Mastery. If your 2H gem Haste but it's viable to gem Multistrike and be able to switch between both without a huge dps loss :)

Edit: Going multi would also be good for switching to UH

Unholy: Str > Multistrike > Mastery > Haste > Crit > Vers

Edited by Lewie4

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ok  i was wondering if askmrrobot was accurate on that.  is there a soft cap to look for for haste or just gem and enchant for MS best over all.  mr robot is saying ot gem haste like you said but game chat everyone has mix feelings on whats priority.  some say mastery, some say multi and other say haste so i got sooo confused and icyveins hasn't update the stat priority from 6.02.  thanks

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ok  i was wondering if askmrrobot was accurate on that.  is there a soft cap to look for for haste or just gem and enchant for MS best over all.  mr robot is saying ot gem haste like you said but game chat everyone has mix feelings on whats priority.  some say mastery, some say multi and other say haste so i got sooo confused and icyveins hasn't update the stat priority from 6.02.  thanks

 

Think the haste soft cap is around 40% and after that it starts to become redundant but you can stack it until your runes regen faster than you can use them which I think is pretty impossible right now :)

Edited by Lewie4

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I suppose a question to ask is this: 
I posted a thread before about my Haste rating higher/as high as Multi strike, that was before the buff to haste. 

 

Now my sims put my haste @ 2.9 vs my MS @ 2.6. 

I'm sitting @ 962 Haste & 1016 Multistrike. My thought is, with haste rating so high, should I just spend the money and switch my MS enchants over to haste? 

 

I'm simming to grab my results and I'll add them as the sims finish. 

 

In my current setup (672 equipped / 1016 Multistrike; 962 Haste,) sims result was 32.325
Weights (normalizes vs Strength) Haste .54; MS .46; Vers .41; Crit .34; Mastery .33

 

Switching my enchants over to Haste (Same gear, just different enchants; 1202 Haste 816 Mutl,) Stat weights nearly identical, dps was 32,296

Edited by Maeylor

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I suppose a question to ask is this: 

I posted a thread before about my Haste rating higher/as high as Multi strike, that was before the buff to haste. 

 

Now my sims put my haste @ 2.9 vs my MS @ 2.6. 

I'm sitting @ 962 Haste & 1016 Multistrike. My thought is, with haste rating so high, should I just spend the money and switch my MS enchants over to haste? 

 

I'm simming to grab my results and I'll add them as the sims finish. 

 

In my current setup (672 equipped / 1016 Multistrike; 962 Haste,) sims result was 32.325

Weights (normalizes vs Strength) Haste .54; MS .46; Vers .41; Crit .34; Mastery .33

 

Switching my enchants over to Haste (Same gear, just different enchants; 1202 Haste 816 Mutl,) Stat weights nearly identical, dps was 32,296

The difference you see wouldn't be that big. I assume you are playing 2h frost as you're looking to switch to haste?

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Think the haste soft cap is around 40% and after that it starts to become redundant but you can stack it until your runes regen faster than you can use them which I think is pretty impossible right now smile.png

What does the 40% cap mean? Meaning I can spam obliterate all day without worrying about frost strikes? In Unholy presence I get 41% haste. Since frost presence only interacts with runic power and therefore frost strike it might actually get to be an interesting choice.

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