Grahmrook

Need help bringing a hunters dps up please!

16 posts in this topic

Hello Hunter forums,

 

Poking in here with my fellow mail wearing class to ask for some help bringing one of our raids hunters damage more in line with the other.  They are both SV but one is out dpsing the other by 8k-12k and there is only 3 ilvls separating them.

 

The one who needs help, here is his Armory (Havoc):

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/llane/Hav%C3%B5c/advanced

 

And his WoL for last Normal clear:

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/kkvitax93qywnnmo/details/5/

 

 

The other hunter's Armory (Dekken):

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/llane/Dekken/advanced

 

And WoL:

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/kkvitax93qywnnmo/details/4/

 

In looking over the logs, and having Dekken look as well, his initial impression is Havoc is not attacking as much as he could be or using spells possibly at less opportune times.  Otherwise it looks like (for the most part) he is using the right spells with the right priority.  Throwing this to you folks to see if you can offer any other insights or suggestions.

 

Much appreciated!

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So, first things first, warcfraftlogs.com.  WCL is a MUCH better tool for analyzing logs than WoL is.  that being said, I will still do my best, but do note that because of how WoL presents the log, I cannot fully analyze these logs.  

For Havoc:

 

Kargath:

  • No pet from what I can tell, he is using focusing shot meaning he should have a pet out - ~2.5k dps lost right there.
  • 27% uptime on ES???? How?  Even going into the stands myself I can get ~40% uptime
  • 58 ticks of BA meaning 6 casts where the last one didn't get to run its full course (target died), could have had 8 total casts, however I don't know how long he was in the stands and he could've missed one entirely
  • 32 uses of FS (which would be 1600 focus gained), but WoL lists only 1100 focus gained from FS, either WoL is wrong here (entirely likely) or he spent a lot of time focus capped and casting FS or he was casting FS above 50 focus.  Mark this up to inability to see multistrikes - see butcher for full comment on this.
  • Only 1 use of his cooldowns: Blood Fury, LDSC, could have had 2.

Butcher:

  • He must've had horrible LnL procs to only get 37% uptime on ES. Nope, he had 8 procs and they were up for a total of 53s, or an average of 6.6s each.  LnL should never be up for more than 2-3s as he should be spamming his ES keybind immediately when LnL procs.
  • Still no pet with Focusing Shot........
  • I can't tell if he is using AMoC correctly or not, because I have no way to tell if his 49 hits+crits (out of an actual possible total of hits is 48 for this time length not including multistrikes), and I'm inclined to say he isn't.  Mark this as another reason WoL is inferior, can't differentiate multistrikes from regular hits.

Brackenspore:

  • I cannot tell if he is multidotting correctly, as WoL does not (as far as I know) have any way to look at a specific players damage done to a specific creature.  
  • STILL NO PET
  • AMoC damage is waaaaaaay to low, he should be abusing its cd reset as much as possible with the spore shooters and the big add.
  • He clearly has no knowledge of how to correctly utilize lock and load procs - 11 procs and they were up for 78s (average of 7s up each).

 

I've little left to say, mostly because I cannot say much more about these bosses without WCL.  With WCL I can look at what he cast and when he casted it, opener, multistrikes, and it just has a much more user friendly UI.  The problems I've stated so far seem to go on throughout the rest of the log.  It also appears that Dekken isn't using a pet with focusing shot, so something is definitely wrong with WoL in this regard.

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I still have the combatlog, can I upload it to WCL?  Does it utilize the same log I mean, not its own deal like AMRs?

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I still have the combatlog, can I upload it to WCL?  Does it utilize the same log I mean, not its own deal like AMRs?

Yeah, no it's the same thing if you used the /combatlog command to log it! If you can upload to WCL we can help your hunters a LOT more.

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My 2c on the situation. 

 

IMHO Havoc should stick with marksmanship until he gets some more multistrike gear.  Especially on a fight like Butcher where there's less time spent in the middle of the fight (79% to 36%) to make MM shine.  Dekken has way more (nearly 19% compared to Havoc's 6%) and the Scales of Doom to boot, so he's gonna have way more overall multistrike going for him. 

 

If Havoc insists on sticking with survival at least make him enchant his ring and cloak to ms instead of the current crit chants.

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First of all his enchants are random as hell. There's no reason to have two crit two multi, if he is SV or MM he needs to use Mult enchants.

 

I'm looking at butcher. Which was a 2:24 fight.

 

FgxeHkN.png

 

If you take a look at his Blood Fury, Lucky Flip and Potion, he did not get a second use of any of them. Huge loss. Barrage isn't optimal but it's really not a huge deal that he cast it.

 

The next thing I would've looked at is his focus management. However it was logged without advanced combat logging on.

 

ivxbo9z.png

 

Please turn this on in the future.

 

The next thing I looked at is his opener. Which is absolutely atrocious.

 

uN4dS7D.png

 

He double cast Focusing Shot, more than just in this once instance. Which capped him in the opener by A LOT and even more during the fight. Focus management is a huge issue.

 

This is the proper opener.

 

oc6fVDC.png

 

His Black Arrow uptime is fairly bad, probably not prepared for it to come off CD and missed about 6% uptime.

 

He isn't properly managing his Lock n' Load procs very well either and he lost out on a massive amount of Explosive Shots.

 

CUdiyI8.png

 

There are instances of almost 10 seconds he didn't cast an Explosive Shot. I can only imagine what he's casting instead of it, Arcane Shot maybe?

 

He had 8 procs of Lock n' Load, which would've netted him 16 casts of Explosive Shot for free. He only managed to cast 24. Meaning that over the course of the fight, he had a possible 40. 

 

144seconds / 6secondCD = 24casts + 16free = 40possible.

 

Refer him to the guide here so he can learn his proper shot priority, get his enchants in line and tell him to NEVER double cast Focusing Shot.

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Ok, so, I was able to do a lot of base work with analyzing the WoL links, now I can get into the more in-depth stuff.  I don't have a lot of time (raid starts in ~5 min) so here goes:

For Butcher:

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XNKZJgFtqaTbM1n2/#type=auras&fight=5&source=6<- This shows all buffs for havoc, when he got them and how long they were up for.  

 

This graph shows his LnL buff vs his ES casts.  in this same tab, we can look at his opener (switch to events view).  

 

AMoC > on-uses > AS > FS.  No no no no no.  he should be doing pre-pot > BA > AMoC + on uses > ES > AS.

 

There was at least one big delay of BA, this cost him.  

 

The log did not use Advanced Combat Logging (under network settings), so I can't look at focus management.  

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A lot of people probably won't agree with me saying this. But, since he can't seem to manage his focus, maybe he should switch to Lone Wolf until he *CAN* manage his focus correctly? I know it'll be a DPS loss, but right now he can't manage his focus at all which is even more of a DPS loss than using LW over FS... Just my 2cents on that one.

but other than that I echo a lot of what's been said above, opener needs to be better, Explosive shot and Black arrow need to be used ON CD and Lock'n'load procs used IMMEDIATELY since they *can* chain-proc.

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Ok, starting at kargath:

 

I will also be doing a log comparison between Havoc and myself when I can, and will be adjusting for different kill times.

 

Kargath:

  • Heroic:  Log comparison
  • Focus capped too much, wasted 300+ focus with badly timed focusing shot uses
  • He is using barrage in his opener, this is a big no-no.  Barrage really shouldn't be used with only a single target and should be saved until he goes into the stands
  • Biggest issue is again, Explosive Shot.  He had a minute log gap in between casting ES, this is absolutely horrible.  

Butcher:

  • The log is too different to compare between yours and mine, as my group had just used hero when yours killed butcher.
  • Again, a lot of wasted focus, this time 275+, this tells me he is not using FS correctly.
  • He is again using Barrage on a single target, not exactly ideal.
  • Better ES usage, but still a lot of big gaps of 10-15s.

 

Most of my first analysis still applies, he is not using LnL procs correctly (often sitting on them) and he is focus capping way too often.  FS really isn't that hard to use, but he is somehow doing it more often than he should be.  It appears that he is using FS at 50+ focus just to be able to use barrage afterwords, which is, well, not good.

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Ok, starting at kargath:

[...]

While I respect the thoroughness and potency of your log analysis, I think you're wasting your time here, Orthios. 

 

Log analysis is something that can tune someone from 90% to 95%, but if the guy has no idea whatsoever of the founding principles of hunter's rotation, it's just wasteful to spend your time doing it, unless you enjoy it.

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While I respect the thoroughness and potency of your log analysis, I think you're wasting your time here, Orthios. 

 

Log analysis is something that can tune someone from 90% to 95%, but if the guy has no idea whatsoever of the founding principles of hunter's rotation, it's just wasteful to spend your time doing it, unless you enjoy it.

 

So based off your assessment there, he needs to go back to the hunter drawing board?  I want to do what we can to help him, even if it is saying you need to figure out rotation and spell priority.  He has decent gear, we just want him to perform to the level he should be at.

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So based off your assessment there, he needs to go back to the hunter drawing board?  I want to do what we can to help him, even if it is saying you need to figure out rotation and spell priority.  He has decent gear, we just want him to perform to the level he should be at.

The first thing you need to do is to motivate that hunter. If he's not willing to learn and improve, there's no point. 

 

Then just refer him to Icy Veins guide, let him read and understand it, play on it for a couple of days, and THEN if he has questions we can answer them. 

Edited by Iridar
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So based off your assessment there, he needs to go back to the hunter drawing board?  I want to do what we can to help him, even if it is saying you need to figure out rotation and spell priority.  He has decent gear, we just want him to perform to the level he should be at.

Yeah, pretty much. 

Like I said in a post on this thread before, his focus management is all wrong and he's not using his procs correctly and his opener is all outta whack. 

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