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Xeroqt

N00b Sub Questions

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Hello fellow roaches.

 

I have a few questions regarding Subt.

This is how I am currently opening, is it correct. 

Premed +SnD

Garotte (for SV) 

Ambush
Hemo

Rupture

Pool Energy + Wait for Find Weakness to expire (or get close enough)

Sdance + SReflection.

Ambush to 5cp 
Evisc

Ambush to 5cp Evisc 

Continue rotation as normal + Wait for Find Weakness to fall off
Vanish + reopen with an ambush
Wait for Find Weakness to fall off 
Premed + Vanish + reopen with an ambush

 

Should I also be reapplying Garotte everytime I vanish or dance? Should I even bother applying Hemo when I'm dancing, seeing as I still have a rupture up on the target.


Why is Glyph of Hemo even a thing, I'm garroting from stealth and have Rupture up anyway, is it even worth it.  

 

Edited by Xeroqt

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I actually have some questions about this myself

 

 

From my understanding we should not be using using garrote at all as the damage is pitiful.

Before the most recent patch we could have our healers give us a few crits to stack up combo points before a pull so we can have a full SnD to start unfortunately this is no more. Our opener is more energy tight now.

 

I've had great success with this rotation

 

Dbm count down to 3, pop agi potion(You can do this in stealth) 

Premed + SnD

Shadow step

Ambush

hemo

Pop shadow reflection

Rupture -- Your shadow reflection will rupture as well and rupture is good damage

Shadow dance -- Make sure your last global of your dance is an ambush for maximum FW uptime

Ambush

Ambush

Evis

You'll need to refresh SnD by now

 

 

Vanish last second of FW again so your ambush would benefit from it.

Backstab till 5 cp, evis

Stay above 50 energy the second half of fw and use prep while pooling

Vanish 

backstab till 5cp evis

 

Now if you know when your raid will be Blood lusting and it'll be after your vanish cd is up you can hold on to prep so you'll have more FW time during Blood lust.

 

Keep watch of your rupture dot as Sinister Calling can make it fall off much quicker depending on how much multi strike you have -- Which you should have a lot of. Refresh Rupture only on 5 cps, aim to keep 100% dot uptime so be aware.

 

 

If you're on a fight where your raid blood lusts at the start your opener would look slightly different.

Dbm count down to 3, pop agi potion(You can do this in stealth) 

Premed + SnD

Shadow step

Ambush

Immediately Shadow dance and pop Shadow reflection

Then rupture

then ambush + evis etc. 

 

 

You didn't mention your talents but i'm assuming you have shadow focus on your tier 1 and Anticipation on your tier 6.

 

 

You should be using your hemo only to refresh the dot, if you can't backstab, for a quick combo point (like our combo point starved opener), and NEVER during find weakness.

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Should I also be reapplying Garotte everytime I vanish or dance? Should I even bother applying Hemo when I'm dancing, seeing as I still have a rupture up on the target.

 

No, you should only ever apply Garrote on your actual opener at the start. Its damage is pretty pitiful, and you're only using it to apply both SV and FW, and saving a gcd.

 

Also, you should never ever use Hemo if you're in Stealth / Vanish / Dance, or if FW is up 

 

Why is Glyph of Hemo even a thing, I'm garroting from stealth and have Rupture up anyway, is it even worth it.  

 

It's not as important for single target, it's just a nice backup in case you misjudge your Multistrikes and end up having Rupture drop. The other side of it is that it allows you to target swap MUCH more easily, so on any fight with an add you should be using it. 

 

From my understanding we should not be using using garrote at all as the damage is pitiful.

Before the most recent patch we could have our healers give us a few crits to stack up combo points before a pull so we can have a full SnD to start unfortunately this is no more. Our opener is more energy tight now.

 

It's a good opener because it both applies FW and SV, saving you a gcd which is worth more than the damage lost from opening Hemo (or Ambush if you run SF)

 

You didn't mention your talents but i'm assuming you have shadow focus on your tier 1 and Anticipation on your tier 6.

 

Shadow Focus being the best is outdated information. Subterfuge with Glyph of Vanish is currently optimal, since Blizz has yet to re-fix the associated bug.

 

Openers

 

I'll address both of your opener lists together, since you're both doing the same thing wrong.

  • Premed + Prepot + SnD
  • Garrote 
  • Ambush as much as you can (possibly 3, assuming you use Glyph of Energy)
  • Wait for energy regen + HaT procs
  • Shadow Reflection
  • Rupture
  • Shadow Dance

The main thing I want to point out in here is that you both used Hemo for no reason. Since you have Garrote up from the beginning, you won't need to waste damage by using Hemo with FW on target.

 

You'll also likely need to refresh SnD partway through Dance, which is fine. Not a huge loss, although try to avoid doing this while SR is still copying from you

 

I think the only way to avoid needing to refresh SnD during Dance is if you do the 24-second pull timer with the t15 abuse - if you want to top parses you'll need to, but that doesn't matter much

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So are you suggesting that we simply exclude hemo for our rotation? Or is it a case of using it when we don't have find weakness up? 

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So are you suggesting that we simply exclude hemo for our rotation? Or is it a case of using it when we don't have find weakness up? 

 

Not exclude it from your rotation, just exclude it from your opener. Should never cast it when Find Weakness is up, but otherwise yes keep the bleed up

 

Also be sure to cast it first when target swapping, as getting SV up asap is important.

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