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Damien

Hearthstone Legendary Duplicate Control Mage BrM

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not enough damage

finish the opponent off

 

Here's your problem, you're fundamentally misunderstanding the deck. You don't "finish the opponent off" with anything, you remove all their threats until they can't win any more.

 

For example, against Handlock, it's not uncommon for an opponent to concede at 25-30 Health because they just can't win anymore, you literally never attack them in that matchup, ever, you pass the turn.

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Guest Mike

How do you feel about relplacing illuminator with faceless manipulator? Illuminator rarely gets me anywhere, and a manipulator - polymorph combo has won me several games at my level (~rank 7 and climbing)

Im a very new player though, so maybe im just not using the illum properly.

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Guest Kek

How do you feel about relplacing illuminator with faceless manipulator? Illuminator rarely gets me anywhere, and a manipulator - polymorph combo has won me several games at my level (~rank 7 and climbing)

Im a very new player though, so maybe im just not using the illum properly.

 

 

I can see Faceless being pretty reasonable, sure.

That's the thing with illuminator, it only works with ice block, any other secret won't stick for long enoughn and you don't want to duplicate it

I would sub in an ice barrier with an ice block if I had one 

either that or remove illuminator

I'm thinking about including kelthuzad maybe, not too sure yet

 

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Guest DoubleDragon

Sottle, what do you think about replacing Antonidas with Ysera?

Ysera is often criticized for being a slow card, but games with this deck go for more than long enough to get good use out of him.
He guarantees you at least 1 extra card, and is harder to remove than Antonidas. Antonidas does not guarantee a Fireball.

I played this deck for roughly 20 games using Antonidas and found him difficult to use properly - often all of my low cost spells were used for removal and control in the early game. I had success with the deck, but with no thanks to him!

If you think Ysera is a bad suggestion, can you give some more insight on why Antonidas is crucial?
Thanks

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That's the thing with illuminator, it only works with ice block, any other secret won't stick for long enoughn and you don't want to duplicate it

I would sub in an ice barrier with an ice block if I had one 

either that or remove illuminator

I'm thinking about including kelthuzad maybe, not too sure yet

 

Ice Block is pointless, the idea of Ice Block is that you buy one more turn to kill your opponent. This isn't a burn deck, so staying alive for one more turn isn't going to get you anywhere.

 

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Sottle, what do you think about replacing Antonidas with Ysera?

Ysera is often criticized for being a slow card, but games with this deck go for more than long enough to get good use out of him.

He guarantees you at least 1 extra card, and is harder to remove than Antonidas. Antonidas does not guarantee a Fireball.

I played this deck for roughly 20 games using Antonidas and found him difficult to use properly - often all of my low cost spells were used for removal and control in the early game. I had success with the deck, but with no thanks to him!

If you think Ysera is a bad suggestion, can you give some more insight on why Antonidas is crucial?

Thanks

Antonidas is just incredibly powerful with Thaurissan, leads to stupid things that can just blow out games on their own. Dropping him raw on a board when you have a Duplicate up is also powerful and creates a lose/lose situation for your opponent.

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Guest Fusion786

I don't have Sylvanas, is it okay if I use Dr. Boom instead?

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Guest Fusion786

Also do you think it's reasonable to mulligan for ice barrier?

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Also do you think it's reasonable to mulligan for ice barrier?

i have played this deck for a while now(currently playing it at rank 2/3,though i mostly got here with aggro paladin).i'd say barrier is usually a pretty poor keep.the only matchup where you can even consider it is hunter,and even then you would much rather have a scientist or a chow to help fight for the board early,as that tends to save you a lot more than 8 life.plus unlike fatigue mage i don't think this deck is designed to be played from behind the whole game,even if you are forced to do so in the first few turns quite often.

 

this is just my analysis of the deck of course,although i'm rather certain i've never seen a pro player keep ice barrier with grinder mage in any video.

Edited by batanete

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Guest Moonhawk

I have a question. What is the most effective way to play versus Zoo Warlock and Midrange Demon Zoo Warlock? I have tried almost everything but they always recover way too fast. There is so much AoE removal in this deck but they are still able to flood the board right after I wipe all their minions. I play this version of the deck with Echo of Medivh in place of Illuminator and I have a really hard time facing these decks. Any opinions?

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I have a question. What is the most effective way to play versus Zoo Warlock and Midrange Demon Zoo Warlock? I have tried almost everything but they always recover way too fast. There is so much AoE removal in this deck but they are still able to flood the board right after I wipe all their minions. I play this version of the deck with Echo of Medivh in place of Illuminator and I have a really hard time facing these decks. Any opinions?

You need to be greedy with your AoE and use your life as a resource as well as your cards. If you're in a comfortable position, you can afford to tank a round of hits from your opponent's board in order to make them overcommit even further. This way your AoE will last longer, and you'll get more value over the course of the game.

Also, if you're playing Echo, your matchup with Zoo will be naturally weaker, since they rarely let you keep minions on the board to Echo.

 

Why is ice barrier important?

Because starting the game at 46 life is really, really good against Aggro.

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Completely different deck, that's a Midrange/Tempo build that aims to scale through their curve and kill with Antonidas generating a bunch of Fireballs, this is a hard Control deck.

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Guest Moonhawk

Sottle, I am still not too sure about Illuminator in this deck. Please can you explain his role in the deck and how to maximize his potential, or in which situations do you use him? I feel that each other card has its justified place in the deck, but Illuminator seems a little off.

 

I currently play with Echo in place of Illuminator... It helps against decks that let you stack 2 or more minions on the board but it is kind of weak against decks that are focused on board control (Zoo).

 

Can you please offer an explanation or some viable substitutions for the card that fit the current meta? I would really appreciate it since I have a lot of fun with this deck.

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Illuminator is best used against Aggro decks, if you are able to drop it with a Duplicate up then they have a really difficult decision to make about whether to kill it or not.

But even if you don't get insane value out of the healing, it serves a decent purpose as an anti-aggro body just to drop on turn 3 and deal with two of their small minions.

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Guest cvajo

Hi Sottle

This is one of my most favourite deck although it sometimes backfires without a chance if mulligan is not powerful enough...I pretty much keep all the cards you have there with one exception.

I removed water elementals and put in 2 mechanical yetis...also I have put in one echo of medivh...if the aim of this deck is to burn out the resources of your oponent I find Mechanical yeti to fulfil this purpose much better than water elemental for following reasons:

It generates the spare part that can decide the game early for example stealth for archmage

It trades better to midrange minion like belcher or azure drake and is almost always 2-1 with exception for mage fireball which would kill elemental as well

It is not so vulnerable to priests spells

Last but not least point of this deck is not to kill the hero of opponent but to generate the new rwsources out of thin air and for that purpose in this deck one or two extra spare parts can be oalways transferred to fireballs creating strong removal options

This is also complimented by inclusion of emperor who cal allow really powerful combos with echo of medivh and spare parts

Only scenario when elemental is better is again death bites of warriors but I overally observed that it is not worth keeping just for this particular situation

I have had a really solid winrate against various matchup after thaurissan inclusion and mechanical yeti swap

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From what I have played so far, this deck goes for large heals together with belchers and barriers until the enemy runs out of steam, and just plays bigger creatures than midrange after boardclearing or to just trade favourably, which I have been quite successful with, but in control warrior/paladin matchups, almost all of the time I end up winning by fatigue after using up all my cards on board control unless I get something like a duplicated Tirion. Am I playing the deck wrong against control? Or is it actually supposed to play like a fatigue mage in these situations?
Is mill rogue an autoconcede? 

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Yes, Fatiguing decks is absolutely not uncommon with this deck and is the best strategy in a lot of matchups.

Yeah Mill Rogue is really, really bad.

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Guest Finnithy

Is there any changes you would make to this deck now the TGT is out?

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Is there any changes you would make to this deck now the TGT is out?

The new mage legendary hero Rhonin has huge synergy with this deck now as he's an ideal hero to create useful spells for your Archmage, and a great duplicate option.  Effigy is a solid secret to help maintain board presence and outlast opponents.  Also, Polymorph: Boar warrants mention as a slightly cheaper alternative to normal polymorph in removal situations and also has utility for damage output and board clearing assistance with your own minions.  As mentioned in prior posts, Echo of Medivh (GvG) has great utility as well, but it's all a balancing act because if you can't survive long enough versus aggro or mid/tempo decks you'll never get to make the great combos this deck is designed for.

 

Personally, in my deck I chose to:

Replace 1/2 Explosive Sheep with an Unstable Portal

Replace both Water Elementals with 1 Mechanical Yeti, and Rhonin

Replace 1/2 Polymorph with Polymorph: Boar

 

So I have yet to really find room for Effigy or Echo of Medivh, but I'm still working out the kinks.

 

I'd love to have Sottle take a fresh look at this deck in terms of these new cards available and update the deck with a reasonable balance.

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If you're aiming that comment at Secret Paladin, I wouldn't bother. Kezan is borderline useless against Secret Paladin.

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