Damien

Heroes of the Storm Artanis

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This thread is for comments about our Artanis build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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Hey Srey!

 

First of all, thanks for another guide.

I have two concerns regarding this one, though.

Seasoned Marksman description says: "its bonuses are fully multiplied by Basic Attack-increasing effects such as Secret Weapon..." Did I miss something about Secret Weapon and it increases not only Falstad's basic attacks? Note that this glitch—if it's a glitch—appears for other heroes with Marksman too (say, Raynor). Initially I was sure it's a mistake, but it is so consistently mentioned that I'm baffled. Still I guess it's a copy-paste oversight.

 

Another one is more specific, it's about Solarite Reaper on level 7.

While I tend to agree with incomparable usefulness of recommended Psionic Synergy, I'm not at all satisfied with the reasoning. Yes, the Reaper talent only increases the less effective part of the dash, but it does so by 150%! So if I do 100 on forward dash and 300 on backward dash, it will now make that 250+300, for a total increase from 400 to 550, i. e. 37.5%. That does seem very nice, especially since backward dash is somewhat escapable by the enemy.

I'm not sure how Nova's conditional +20% (on level 1 though) is recommended, and this is not even considered. Or a most recent example: Gall's diminishing 20% is recommended (on the same level 7). What I'm missing here? Is it because they are assassins? Is 37.5% increase indeed too little for level 7?

 

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Seasoned Marksman description says: "its bonuses are fully multiplied by Basic Attack-increasing effects such as Secret Weapon..."

 

 

 

 

 

 

i think on this one you are right, secret weapon, at least in my xp, doesnt apply to other heroes, so probably is a mistake, but i dont fully know about this

 

on the second part, yes that does a lot of damage, but the problem here is that the q doesnt give you invulnerability frames, and is one of the biggest flaws of that one, so landing the full lenght of your q is way to hard tbh unless you are paired with an ETC and he chooses to go with mosh pit, then you can use it but is very specific and a ETC landing a 4-5 man Mosh pit is hard (im telling you by experience)

 

There are two more reasons i think about this:

Another use of the q is to damage running heroes that are trying to get away, and thats another problem, because more than half of the time the return doesnt land

 

Third part is the next, Artanis is a Bruisier, lets be honest, he is in the same spot that Sonya has, that is of the second warrior to get picked in a 2 warrior strategy, If you see the talents recommended for Sonya by icy veins and from TSZuna, you will see a lot of survavility talents taken and a few of damage (i think the only ones recommended are the damage over time from the spear/this getting replaced for the fury heal, focused attack and the ultimate that gives you damage)  The advantage that Sonya has is that her survavility (self heal) can be activated before reaching 50%, Artanis Doesnt have that luxury, so being able to abuse the cd reduccion on his only survavility is way too good (im telling you this because the trait, though is good and can keep artanis Alive for a long time, has the flaw that if you get cc OR focused hard, the damage talents are useless)

 

 

 

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on the second part, yes that does a lot of damage, but the problem here is that the q doesnt give you invulnerability frames, and is one of the biggest flaws of that one, so landing the full lenght of your q is way to hard tbh unless you are paired with an ETC and he chooses to go with mosh pit, then you can use it but is very specific and a ETC landing a 4-5 man Mosh pit is hard (im telling you by experience)

 

There are two more reasons i think about this:
Another use of the q is to damage running heroes that are trying to get away, and thats another problem, because more than half of the time the return doesnt land
 
(...)

 

Hey Kroshak, thanks for answering!

 

I have to point though that I explicitly agreed with the recommended talent (in a very flowery way, hard to understand, ok smile.png). I'm not at all sure Solarite Reaper should ever be taken over Psionic Synergy.

 

But I have hard time with accepting the explanation given in the guide. It says 'very little additional damage', and that doesn't seem true: first, it's 3/8 more damage, second, it amplifies the forward dash, so since "half of the time the return doesnt land" in practice it is even larger increase.

 

So maybe damage talens are not at all viable for second tanks/bruiser, and that may be a good explanation for not recommending Solarite Reaper. I would probably be ok with that, if that is going to be a consistent advice smile.png

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on the second part, yes that does a lot of damage, but the problem here is that the q doesnt give you invulnerability frames, and is one of the biggest flaws of that one, so landing the full lenght of your q is way to hard tbh unless you are paired with an ETC and he chooses to go with mosh pit, then you can use it but is very specific and a ETC landing a 4-5 man Mosh pit is hard (im telling you by experience)

 

There are two more reasons i think about this:
Another use of the q is to damage running heroes that are trying to get away, and thats another problem, because more than half of the time the return doesnt land
 
(...)

 

Hey Kroshak, thanks for answering!

 

I have to point though that I explicitly agreed with the recommended talent (in a very flowery way, hard to understand, ok smile.png). I'm not at all sure Solarite Reaper should ever be taken over Psionic Synergy.

 

But I have hard time with accepting the explanation given in the guide. It says 'very little additional damage', and that doesn't seem true: first, it's 3/8 more damage, second, it amplifies the forward dash, so since "half of the time the return doesnt land" in practice it is even larger increase.

 

So maybe damage talens are not at all viable for second tanks/bruiser, and that may be a good explanation for not recommending Solarite Reaper. I would probably be ok with that, if that is going to be a consistent advice smile.png

 

The problem right now, and take in mind this guides are optimized to be strong in the current meta, right now the meta goes with at least 2 warriors in the front line, that is a common thing here and well warriors usually take more resources to bring them down, something you should not do, focusing a warrior is a bad idea unless you can stunlock that one and/or burst him down.

 

Also take in mind the warriors, yes Artanis becames really strong when he drops 50% but thats a double edged sword, because if the enemy pays attention they will focus and take you down, Artanis has the same problem that Thrall, needs to be in constant fight in order to sustain, cc wrecks both of them thats why you see Thrall with the windfury build to sutain more, etc

 

I would only take the damage abilities ones (going straight up damage) if in my team there is another good warrior that can withstand damage on his own and good supports, that the only case scenario ill do it, you could see this scenario but usually Sonya is the one occupying that place

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Hey just a thought.... Under talent build it might be worth specifically noting which heroes are good targets for purifier beam (a) for their slow mobility and (b) to zone them..... Not all will be as familiar with the slower-moving heroes.

-A bit like the list you use to describe abilities that mesh well with Diablo's Apocalypse.

Edited by Kiarbitrager
Got idea down then went to find the specific bit was thinking of that read ages ago.
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Just had an interesting chat after this HL game with the Artanis here as per the picture of talent picks on Braxis map (can post stats if needed).... we were chatting mainly about the L1 pick he made with more of a prism bruiser build (not going Titan Killer later on though).... I think he was right to go that talent, and normally I'd go move as burrowed as Dehaka at L16.

On the Braxis map...
I'm curious about thoughts on any talent build picks for Artanis in two cases, particularly the L1 pick:

Firstly, assuming a double warrior compo of (Artanis/other) vs. a single warrior on this map (guessing probably Johanna or ETC, possibly Mura)...

Secondly, assuming a double warrior compo on both sides.

Finally, more generally... is an Artanis PvE build ever likely to be viable on Braxis? -Guessing only if a double warrior compo or vs. a Gaz/Rexxar.

Braxis.png

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On 3/20/2017 at 1:42 PM, Kiarbitrager said:

I'm curious about thoughts on any talent build picks for Artanis in two cases, particularly the L1 pick:

Seasoned is 100% a fair pick as long as you can make use of it. If your team doesn't need the tanky bruiser front line, you can sacrifice it for more damage with picking Seasoned L1. In the case of your screenshot, he 100% made the right pick. When you start encountering double warrior, then you need to start considering your tankier options again, namely Reactive. You can also take Reactive vs 1 tank if the map sucks for farming stacks of Seasoned.

On 3/20/2017 at 1:42 PM, Kiarbitrager said:

Finally, more generally... is an Artanis PvE build ever likely to be viable on Braxis? -Guessing only if a double warrior compo or vs. a Gaz/Rexxar.

Definitely possible, yeah, but you'd have to weigh the pros/cons of dead talents outside of PvE occasions.

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33 minutes ago, FirstBlood said:

Maybe the counters/synergies need an update.  Right now it feels like Arthas is a very strong Artanis counter.

Artanis is able to outlast Arthas thanks to the shields he's able to gain through Shield OverloadShield Overload, which "outvalues" Arthas' Rune TapRune Tap (if taken), and Artanis' other abilities (especially heroic abilities) offer higher damage potential than the ones of Arthas, which results in Artanis being able to outdamage and outlast Arthas.

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On 3/31/2017 at 10:22 PM, positiv2 said:

Artanis is able to outlast Arthas thanks to the shields he's able to gain through Shield OverloadShield Overload, which "outvalues" Arthas' Rune TapRune Tap (if taken), and Artanis' other abilities (especially heroic abilities) offer higher damage potential than the ones of Arthas, which results in Artanis being able to outdamage and outlast Arthas.

In a 1vs1 to the death, sure artanis can win against almost every hero but Arthas does counter Artanis with his E that slows movement and attack speed and with Q it makes it impossible for artanis to escape so you have to watch the map and determine if you wanna trade/fight with an Arthas as to not get picked by his team

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I like Artanis a lot so I'd like to discuss some of his talent picks:

I'm liking Amateur Opponent more and more, it gives so much more versatility, you clear mercenary camps in no time. I started picking it on maps like Garden of Terror, Haunted Mines, Tomb of the Spider Queen. There are many PvE objectives in them. That also means I will pick Triple Strike at level 13.

His 4 and 7 talents Shield Surge and Warp Sickness seem mandatory to me. Its a Lot of defense and utility.

Regarding his Suppresion Pulse, its a good idea to take a look at enemies talents and determine if they are auto attackers or not. I got in a match against Zul'Jin and Falstad and in the loading screen I decided S.P. was the best ultimate but then I saw that Falstad was going Q ability damage build and Zul'jin took Guillotine and some W talents so I went Purifier Beam.

Furthermore, S.P. is kinda weak, the damage is very little. I take it only to counter a specific hero when he uses his auto attack boosts. Like Raynor with his W, Zul'Jin with Taz'Dingo,

His Purifier beam might seem like an easy click-and-forget ability but in order for it to do damage and be effective you have to time it right, when an ally is About to CC an enemy, when You have your E up to slow them, when you put it on a tank that is staying in place, fighting with ur team,etc. I try and always go for the damage with his P.B instead of using it just as a zone away tool.

Graviton Vortex, level 13 seems kinda bad. I picked it only once or twice because the only use I see in it is to do a 5vs5 team fight play by pulling their hyper-carry into your team, cause the enemies will be protecting him with their bodies.

Lastly, at level 20 I never pick Orbital Bombardment or Target Purified, they seem wasteful or too hard to utilise. I pick Force of Will 80% of the time and after that point I look on his Shield Timer, see how much it takes untill in comes back up, it would be inefficient  to use Triple Strike when you have 10 seconds on his shield as Triple Strike takes 18 seconds off, in an instant, coupled with 1 more basic attack you get your shield back up.

 

 

Edited by Fransoa

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1 hour ago, Fransoa said:

I'm liking Amateur Opponent more and more, it gives so much more versatility, you clear mercenary camps in no time. I started picking it on maps like Garden of Terror, Haunted Mines, Tomb of the Spider Queen. There are many PvE objectives in them.

Yeah, Amateur OpponentAmateur Opponent is stronger in PvE-oriented maps. I'd say it's pretty much an autopick on Battlefield of Eternity and Infernal Shrines, and a strong consideration on the maps you listed. On the remaining maps, it's quite weak. 

2 hours ago, Fransoa said:

Graviton Vortex, level 13 seems kinda bad. I picked it only once or twice because the only use I see in it is to do a 5vs5 team fight play by pulling their hyper-carry into your team, cause the enemies will be protecting him with their bodies.

If it only caused Phase PrismPhase Prism to damage and pull two targets, it might not be that good. However, it also reduces the cooldown significantly, by 5 seconds, which makes it a good talent. Also, I apologize for an issue with Graviton VortexGraviton Vortex's description - it no longer makes the cooldown of Phase PrismPhase Prism fit the cooldown of Blade DashBlade Dash perfectly. I will make sure to get it fixed. Nonetheless, the 5-second difference is still huge.

2 hours ago, Fransoa said:

Lastly, at level 20 I never pick Orbital Bombardment or Target Purified, they seem wasteful or too hard to utilise.

Target PurifiedTarget Purified is great against team with more squishy targets, but yeah, it's not that great compared to other talents, which is why I would personally move it to Situational tier.

Thanks for the insight!

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I have to say that I think Amateur Opponent is the best talent on that tier and I don't think it's even close.  You will PVE something on every map and if you get Triple Strike @13 it adds even more to it.  I cannot recommend it enough.  Reactive Parry only gives 50% block instead of the upgraded 75%, and it activates on Twin Blades activation.  So if you want to black a Focused Attack (the reason you would be taking block) you have to have a charge ready.  Not a big deal, but if a pick happens and you don't have it up, you either precast Twin Blades (bad idea not using it with auto reset) or you don't get the block on the Focused Attack.  Seasoned Marksman is SM.  Not much to say about it.  You feel like a god when you stack it late game, but Artanis already feels insanely strong late game.  Force of Will @20 insures that.  Also, don't ever try to 1v1 Arthas as Artanis, you're gonna have a bad time.

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On 13. 4. 2017 at 5:15 AM, hammadroppa said:

I have to say that I think Amateur Opponent is the best talent on that tier and I don't think it's even close.  You will PVE something on every map and if you get Triple Strike @13 it adds even more to it.

I think you said exactly why it isn't the best talent - "You will PVE something on every map". While you can PvE a bit on every map, your focus should be on killing the opponent heroes, not their minions. That's why Reactive ParryReactive Parry is stronger on maps where PvE-ing doesn't help you kill the heroes more easily (that is, every map except for Garden of Terror, Battlefield of Eternity, Haunted Mines and Infernal Shrines).

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@positiv2 but AO is a MUST take talent on BoE, GoT, HM and IF..  or did you mean on maps other than those?  The thing is, Reactive Parry should really only be taken to counter specific heroes/talents (Nova, Crit talents like Follow Through) and even then it is weaker in every way than standard block.  Amateur Opponent is the best talent on that tier by a very, very wide margin.  Idk the win rates but I encourage every Artanis player to take it except in niche scenarios.

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5 hours ago, hammadroppa said:

but AO is a MUST take talent on BoE, GoT, HM and IF..  or did you mean on maps other than those?

Yeah, I thought that listing the only maps that make Amateur OpponentAmateur Opponent a great talent would be quite obvious. I'll change the text, then.

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6 hours ago, hammadroppa said:

Okay, understood.  I still think you over value Reactive Parry.  AO is the clear cut better level 1 9/10 times.

Yeah, it's possible that I overvalue Reactive ParryReactive Parry. I just feel it allows me to kill anyone in a 1v1 somewhat safely, and that is the reason why I pick Artanis - to have a strong 1v1 tool. There are some maps that make Amateur OpponentAmateur Opponent the superior talent, but overall I strongly prefer the 1v1 power over jungling power, though I guess there are times when Amateur OpponentAmateur Opponent is better outside of the aforementioned maps. 
HotS Logs show that all three T1 talents have pretty much the same pick rate (31.2% for Seasoned MarksmanSeasoned Marksman, 34.2% for Amateur OpponentAmateur Opponent, and 34.6% for Reactive ParryReactive Parry) for Plat-Master stats. So, I wouldn't say that Amateur OpponentAmateur Opponent is the better pick 9/10 times. Maybe 4/10, depending on the map luck, but not 9/10.

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On 3. 4. 2017 at 4:49 AM, Fransoa said:

His Purifier beam might seem like an easy click-and-forget ability but in order for it to do damage and be effective you have to time it right, when an ally is About to CC an enemy, when You have your E up to slow them, when you put it on a tank that is staying in place, fighting with ur team,etc. I try and always go for the damage with his P.B instead of using it just as a zone away tool.

Graviton Vortex, level 13 seems kinda bad. I picked it only once or twice because the only use I see in it is to do a 5vs5 team fight play by pulling their hyper-carry into your team, cause the enemies will be protecting him with their bodies.

Lastly, at level 20 I never pick Orbital Bombardment or Target Purified, they seem wasteful or too hard to utilise. I pick Force of Will 80% of the time and after that point I look on his Shield Timer, see how much it takes untill in comes back up, it would be inefficient  to use Triple Strike when you have 10 seconds on his shield as Triple Strike takes 18 seconds off, in an instant, coupled with 1 more basic attack you get your shield back up.

That's some really good commentary on usage of his PB.... a lot of people see the obvious rationale for SP ult pick (as counter to key AA heroes), but aside from targeting the lower mobility heroes (e.g. Malf, Jaina) I hadn't thought as much about usage for getting kills rather than zoning. It might be worth incorporating some of this stuff on ult choices and usage next time the guide is updated.

Edited by positiv2
Fixed quote

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I think more should be added to Phase Prism description about using it to move others off objectives, off allies, behind obstacles (all three at once on Shrine and Curse especially), disrupt attack chains, move targets into cannons or away from cannons to engage. As a new player (still new), I would have loved to have known all these goodies at the start.

Thanks for the tips!

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