Damien

Council of Elders

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We just downed Council thanks to this absolutely wonderful Glyph/Totem! Our Shaman said he could pop it down before or during Overload, it would reflect the damage either way.

Thanks!

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From what I've read elsewhere and fro last night experience it would seem as if the "random" is more based on the highest hp of those remaining. When we burned Sul and Malakk we either had Kaz or Priestess get empowered next depending on what the respective hp levels were.

Just one comment, but if anyone else is able to verify moreso that would be great.

The dungeon journal says that the damage reflected from Kazra'jin's overload is 50%, not the 25% stated in the guide.

Starting order is not fixed apparently. After several attempts, the order changed to Priestess empowered second and not Kazra'jin

Thanks for all these reports. These issues will be fixed shortly!

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What is up with resto druids getting raped in this fight when the Living Sands spawn from empowered Sul? I'm assuming its my hots that are going off like crazy that gives me top threat. On our attempts, we first tried stacking me on the tank so they would run towards to us so the tank could pick them up, but that didn't work quite too well. Next I stacked with our warrior tank and he used his banner ability, which was much better but still didn't completely do the trick. To make things more difficult, there's massive damage being taken at that moment when they spawn, it's required that I pop Tranquility which raises my threat even higher. I really wish I had Cower in resto spec! I could Typhoon, which would only give use about 1 more second to down them quick enough, I don't see that being the secret to make it work though. Anyone else having this issue? Any suggestions?

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What is up with resto druids getting raped in this fight when the Living Sands spawn from empowered Sul? I'm assuming its my hots that are going off like crazy that gives me top threat. On our attempts, we first tried stacking me on the tank so they would run towards to us so the tank could pick them up, but that didn't work quite too well. Next I stacked with our warrior tank and he used his banner ability, which was much better but still didn't completely do the trick. To make things more difficult, there's massive damage being taken at that moment when they spawn, it's required that I pop Tranquility which raises my threat even higher. I really wish I had Cower in resto spec! I could Typhoon, which would only give use about 1 more second to down them quick enough, I don't see that being the secret to make it work though. Anyone else having this issue? Any suggestions?

You can use Shadowmeld if you are a Night Elf. Or you can ask for a Hand of Salvation from a Paladin. Or you can not use Tranquility at all and use some crowd control abilities like Typhoon or Mass Entanglement on the adds.

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Our tactic was to burn Sul down before he could empower.

2 Tanks (Druid/DK), 2 Heals (Druid, Pala), 6 DDs (Shadow, Warlock, Elemental Shaman, Rogue, Ret Pala, Hunter).

We also had fixed groups for the Ice Debuffs. Shaman+rDruid+Warlock and Hunter+Shadow+Pala would come together whenever one of them needed partners Posted Image Just mark one player of each group to be able to always see where you have to go Posted Image.

Tank Sul + Frostking together, Marli away.

Tankswitch at 12 stacks.

Bloodlust at the beginning, just burn Sul. Let one player kill the add from Marli (our Warlock did it), make sure to place a frost trap or to stun/slow the add. After Malakk had about 90 energy we switched to him.

Make sure you put dots on Kazzrajin as well, so Marli will be the one with the highest life pool. That makes her the second troll to empower.

Ignore Marli and keep on burning Sul. At this point, tanks can tank Marli, Malakk and Sul together, to increase cleave damage. Switch to Marli at about 90 energy (or even before, if your damage isn't enough). It's not that bad if a troll reaches 100 energy, if it doesn't last too long Posted Image. Remember to pull Marli away after she loses her empowerment.

After that, Kazzrajin should empower. Ignore him and kill Sul. We then had enough time left to slowly dps Kazzrajin.

Make sure, to have a kind of rotation for Sul kicks. Even though people switch targets, it's good to kick as much as possible.

Focus macros help a lot. Tanks can kick, but their priority should be switching targets when they have too many frost debuffs.

When Kazzrajin was dps-ed, our Shaman put his grounding totem when the troll casted his overload. I'm not sure if it's a bug or if it's working as intended, but it completely nullifies the reflection for at least his own group (make sure you have all the dps in the shaman's group).

After one troll (Sul) is dead, it get's a lot easier. And you don't even have to fear the little sandy adds Posted Image

It's pretty intense healing it, me and the paladin were oom for quite a while, but there's fortunately not that much healing needed after Sul is dead. For the upcoming frost debuffs just use CDs from other players (Healing totem, deff-CDs etc.).

And always make sure to kill the adds from Marli. At least as long as Sul is alive Posted Image

Log:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/577rqfeioqosnk29/dashboard/?s=10421&e=10927

Edited by Ayu
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Malakk applies the debuff when he is under the Frigid Assault debuff and when he hits the tank. If you have a +dodge trinket, it's a good idea to hit it when he's doing the frigid assault thing. Bears can solo tank this fight, although it's probably a good idea to have someone with a taunt on standby to pingpong Malakk if they have an unlucky streak.

The health nerf on 10 man was 15%, so they have something around 75 million health apiece now. Which brings you to an interesting calculus - the Marli add heals for 5% of boss health (around 4 million) and it takes 1.4 million in damage, so is it worth the lack of focus and loss of cleave damage to keep Marli away from the stack when she's not empowered? If you have a lot of powerful AoE dps'ers you may want to tank all 3 together and only pull Marli away when she gets dark and scary. Also this way your dps gets to pad their meters and that always seems to keep them happy.

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We tried this boss recently and I was wondering if any1 could help me and tell me what addon is on this video:

that shows warning about "HP to go and power" of empowered boss? It would help a lot since if we knew that we are burning the boss to fast we could use that time to switch to Sul but its hard to track.

Edited by Khalam

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It's probably Big Wigs.

I used the same addon in our fight (see video below).


(I don't want the video to show up and suck up all of the space, that's why I used "code" ;))

Edited by Ayu
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You can use Shadowmeld if you are a Night Elf. Or you can ask for a Hand of Salvation from a Paladin. Or you can not use Tranquility at all and use some crowd control abilities like Typhoon or Mass Entanglement on the adds.

Hey thanks for the input. With our grp, I ended up going balance and we burned down Sul as quickly as possible. It was very difficult to do, but once we got the hang of ALL the mechanics, made it much easier with only 2 healers. Once Sul is down, it's a piece of cake but getting there was rough.

Also, very good strategy Ayu posted above.

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On our 10 man group, we also ignored the blessed Loa spirits when they spawned. This allowed us to have all 3 of the bosses stacked up for the entire fight letting a lot of cleave damage go off. We kept the bosses stacked even when priestess was empowered. The shadow Loa spirit only targeted ranged for us, so even with the bosses stacked, we still had plenty of time to kill it. Another benefit of having the bosses stacked is easy taunting for tanks. A lot of the time, we were able to keep the tank on frost king from getting stunned by having the other tank taunt off, and even if the frost tank does get stunned, because both tanks are right next to each other, it was very easy to pull frost king off of the stunned tank. Ignoring the add also simplifies things for the dps on a fight that already has a lot going on.

Log of us killing council using this strategy :

www.worldoflogs.com/reports/21tqe2lrwgeegsef/dashboard/?s=6285&e=6681

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Can you BoP someone out of frostbite?

I know that Ice Block doesn't work, so my guess is that Hand of Protection doesn't work either (btw, Blessing of Protection was removed from the game more than 4 years ago) :P

On our 10 man group, we also ignored the blessed Loa spirits when they spawned. This allowed us to have all 3 of the bosses stacked up for the entire fight letting a lot of cleave damage go off. We kept the bosses stacked even when priestess was empowered. The shadow Loa spirit only targeted ranged for us, so even with the bosses stacked, we still had plenty of time to kill it. Another benefit of having the bosses stacked is easy taunting for tanks. A lot of the time, we were able to keep the tank on frost king from getting stunned by having the other tank taunt off, and even if the frost tank does get stunned, because both tanks are right next to each other, it was very easy to pull frost king off of the stunned tank. Ignoring the add also simplifies things for the dps on a fight that already has a lot going on.

Log of us killing council using this strategy :

www.worldoflogs.com/reports/21tqe2lrwgeegsef/dashboard/?s=6285&e=6681

I'm not certain what to make of this strategy. We usually try to give the intended strategy, so that you can re-use most of it for Heroic mode, but I don't know if you can apply the strategy you give for Heroic mode. I need to keep an eye on what raids are doing and see if this strategy becomes the default way of handling the boss.

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Can anyone confirm that Glyphed Grounding Totem still works to reflect Kazrajin's Overload? We tried it this week and it appears to have been hotfixed.

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Soft enrage would be the ability to burn down the boss' health by 25% in say 80 seconds... before the debuff becomes to unmanagable

Assuming the sandcrawler is always empowered 4th and you can burn down the last 24% of his life while empowered you need.

90 million * 76% / (80 * 3) / 1.5 (1 dps + 1 tank) = 190.000 dps which dont seem realistic even with multi dotting

90 million * 76% / (80 * 3) / 2.5 (2 dps +1 tank) = 114.000 dps, plus some dots from other players seems ok-ish particular since the whole raid should start on the boss at the start with Lust, though there is only 5 seconds before the first possesed.... Lets assume 20 seconds full raid on the Sandcrawler before they switch the the other empowered boss, excluding the second tank.

2 tanks 2 healers 20 seconds * 70k * 6.5 = 9.100.000

2 tanks 3 healers 20 seconds * 93k * 5.5 = 10.230.000

Which should leave about 81 million on Sandcrawler after those 20 seconds. So...

81 million * 76% / (80 * 3) / 2.5 (2 dps +1 tank) = 102.600

Assuming you leave 2 dps on Sandcrawler

2 tanks 2 healers 90 million * 25% / 80 / 4 = 70.312 dps

2 tanks 3 healers 90 Million * 25% / 80 / 3 = 93.750 dps

This does have some room for error because of the tank ... that is not tanking the Sandcrawler

Also since there is a pretty big discrepancy between the 100k on the Sandcrawler dps and the 70k on the other dps, lets see what the overall dps should look like.

so you have 4 times 80 seconds to kill 100% of one boss and 25% of 3 bosses.

Which makes for 90 million + 90 million * 25% * 3 = 157.500.000 / 80 / 4 = 492.187 dps

Leaving the 2nd tank out of the equation leaving

1 tank 6 dps 2 healers: 492.187 / 6.5 = 75.721 dps

1 tank 5 dps 3 healers: 492.187 / 5.5 = 89.489 dps

Add some dps required for the LOA spirits

For the spirits you need 1.890.000 / 20 seconds = 94.500 dps total to kill them within the 20 seconds allowed.

But since they seem to be summoned about every 30 seconds, 4 * 80 / 30 = 10.6 or 11 of these spirits before you kill sandcrawler

This adds 11 * 1.750.000 (a little less since most are blessed not shadowed) = 19.250.000

19.250.000 / 80 / 4 / 6.5 = 9.254 dps

19.250.000 / 80 / 4 / 5.5 = 10.937 dps

So totals would be, thought that excludes one tank since he cannot always be relied upon.

2 tanks 2 healers 6 dps: 75.721 + 9.254 = 84.975 dps

2 tanks 3 healers 5 dps: 89.489 + 10.937 = 100.426 dps

Edited by namliam
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When Malakk goes "Frigid Assault" the first melee attack almost kills the tank. Is this a bug or merely a setback?!

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This might not be all that relevant anymore but figured I would add it anyways.

Alternative burn Sul "first" tactic for groups finding that they lack the dps or have problems with breaking empower on frostking while doing so.

Empower definataly seems to jump to the highest health boss.

Do not nuke Sul with all you got on pull. Do as little damage as you can on him while spreading damage to the others aswell as breaking empower on Frost king in a timely manner.

Now Sul will be second to empower. And there will only be 3-4 sand adds (25 man wich is where we did this).

Use all dps cooldowns and focus Sul with all you got. This way he will only do one sandstorm and the sand adds will be a none issue. Once empower is broken leave some melee on him for interupts and damage and keep dots and whatever damage that can be spared rolling on him. He should not be able to become highest health again before he is dead.

The main benefit with forcing Sul to empower second and then nuking him is that you dont have to worry about one of the others reaching 100 energy wich means you can focus all your dps on it. It also means that apart from Frost King Sul is now way ahead in being low on health compared to the remaining ones.

Anyways. Just sharing this. It works very well if you feel short on dps for the original burn Sul tactic.

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Council

Differences from Normal Mode

-higher HP and damage

-empowered 100 energy Troll = death almost instantly

-Blessed Loas travel at mega speed

-Extra Action Button Debuff

Empowered Frost King Malak's Frostbite is incredibly deadly. Healers MUST keep the Frostbite target alive along with personal CD uses by the target. Two different strategies have worked on this fight. We used the one where Frostbite target stood away from group and rotated personal CDs. Healers used CDs appropriately to handle this.

Empowered Kazra'jin just reflects damage. In Heroic, getting hit by him rolling around is very damaging. Avoid it.

Empowered Sul should not happen in Heroic mode. Your group's focus is to kill Sul before he empowers. More later.

Empowered Mar'li does a new ability called Twisted Fate. This ability will create two adds that walk towards each other. One will spawn on a random melee target and the other on the farthest ranged/healer player. It is imperative that someone be at max distance during Mar'li's empower phase. When Twisted Fate is about to happen, this player should go further out to make the spawn have a ton of distance. Once they spawn, it is the DPS top priority to kill these. If they meet, it's a wipe. They are stunnable, slowable, and able to be knocked back.

Blessed Loas run incredibly fast in Heroic. You will need two dedicated DPS with knockbacks and stuns to kill them, preferably ranged. In order to allow these to be killed, Mar'li will be left where she spawns or tanked away from the group to increase the amount of time for DPS to kill them. If they reach any boss, it will likely be a wipe due to the DPS requirement of killing them before they empower.

Extra Action Button Debuff (name eludes me): This will be applied to a raid member and it will start to stack slowly. Each stack increases damage taken by that player by 1% for the rest of the fight. The way we handled this was each person got to 5 stacks then passed it off to someone without the debuff. To pass it, you target an ally and use your Extra Action Button to literally throw the debuff to them. This will accelerate as the fight progresses. Classes with high survivability should hold onto the debuff towards the end of the fight. As the Warlock, I held mine all the way to 30% increased damage to keep it off of other players. Any DPS with good survival CDs should do this similarly.

Healing Concers: Frostbite HURTS. Aside from that, you'll regularly heal people who take damage. Be prepared to dispel people caught in Sandtraps immediately.

DPS Concerns: You MUST not allow any Troll to empower. The way this will be worked out is you will want to use some of the time a Troll spends empowering by DPSing another one. If you just hammered away on the Empowered Troll, you would force their 10% increased damage stacking buff too high and things would really start to hurt. Sul must not empower. Therefore, the strategy will be to Bloodlust on the pull, burn Sul as much as possible, and only switch to Frost King to deal 25% of his max HP before he empowers. Sul should be sitting around 40-50% when you make the Frost King quit empowering. After the Frost King is done, switch back to Sul. Mar'li will empower so Twisted Fate will have to be handled correctly. You should aim to get Sul to 20% before switching to Mar'li to break her empowerment. After this, Kazra'jin will empower, but your focus will be to kill Sul before switching to Kazra'jin. After killing Sul, break Kazra'jin's empowerment and repeat the rotation of empowerment of Frost King, Mar'li, Kazra'jin. If you get to this point in the fight, you should be ok. Just keep wailing on them.

Blessed Loas must be handled correctly. We used a Demo Warlock and a Boomkin who cycled through Shadowfury, Typhoon, and Carrion Swarm to knockback and stun the add. Other classes have meaningful tools as well, but you really can't afford to swap any more than 2 DPS to these adds.

Difficulty: rather tight DPS requirement, mechanics requirement, and overall understanding of everything. Very chaotic fight. Hardest of the 6 that I've downed.

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By the looks of those mechanics on Heroic mode it sounds pretty chaotic dealing with the Biting cold and the stuff on the ground, etc. Probably in my opinion a medium heroic difficulty boss than Horridon or Jin'rokh, by that I mean its upped in more difficulty than those bosses.

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Since the guide is unsure about the mechanic which boss is empowered next :

It is always the highest health boss which has not been empowered in this cycle.

We use this to always have Sul empowered second, when there are few sand patches, then activating heroism to get him to cast sand storm only once, and for the rest of the fight there is always at least one DPS, better two on him. That way he is always lowest in health for the rest of the fight, so the loa spirit always tries to get to him. AND in the next cylcle he is chosen last because he has the least health, so your extra DPS have 5 full cycles to finish him off, before he is empowered again.

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-empowered 100 energy Troll = death almost instantly

This is very very wrong, the damage form dark power is high, however it its beneficial for a lot of groups to drag out the first two empowerments letting dark power tick for a little bit so they can get sul down lower. a few ticks is not deadly unless it is karzra'jin is empowered.

Empowered Frost King Malak's Frostbite is incredibly deadly. Healers MUST keep the Frostbite target alive along with personal CD uses by the target. Two different strategies have worked on this fight. We used the one where Frostbite target stood away from group and rotated personal CDs. Healers used CDs appropriately to handle this.

now this is important. Frostbite has a cast time and pute a blue arrow over your head before you get it. any magic immunities will block the application of frostbite completely letting you skip them. In addition if a rouge smoke bombs then the cast will also not go off ( there are dmb timers for this ability) you can go though the whole fight with no frostbites if you are luck using immunties and rouge bombs.

also for a lot of people to easy haling f on frost bite is to on application use a major cool down on them, when its over they can run it in to melee to split the debuff for 7 seconds. ( you have to be precise because if their body heat runs out they will take the full 5 stack damage along with you. that really reduced the healing nedded on them and let syou top them back up for the 8-9 seconds they are out agian. Then person then can go back into melee it finish off the debuff.

Empowered Mar'li does a new ability called Twisted Fate. This ability will create two adds that walk towards each other. One will spawn on a random melee target and the other on the farthest ranged/healer player. It is imperative that someone be at max distance during Mar'li's empower phase. When Twisted Fate is about to happen, this player should go further out to make the spawn have a ton of distance. Once they spawn, it is the DPS top priority to kill these. If they meet, it's a wipe. They are stunnable, slowable, and able to be knocked back.

Blessed Loas run incredibly fast in Heroic. You will need two dedicated DPS with knockbacks and stuns to kill them, preferably ranged. In order to allow these to be killed, Mar'li will be left where she spawns or tanked away from the group to increase the amount of time for DPS to kill them. If they reach any boss, it will likely be a wipe due to the DPS requirement of killing them before they empower.

in my group im a disc priest, I stand out and bait the twisted spirit on to me and root it. Void tendrils will be up for every twisted fate or loa spirit because they share a cooldown. so a priest and root an add for its duration each time.

the rest i mostly agree with. This fight is a challanging encounter and will likely be your first "mid-range heroic boss. The healing will be intense but the fight will smooth out with more gear.

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Smoke bomb can be used before he casts frostbite to prevent it from going out. Very useful for heroic.

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Smoke bomb can be used before he casts frostbite to prevent it from going out. Very useful for heroic.

does the entire raid (just range, NOT range) have to be stacked in the smoke bomb?

I understand you place the bomb on the boss BEFORE he starts the cast. what I don't understand is where the raid should be. do all the range have to be inside of the smoke bomb? does everyone have to be outside of the smoke bomb? if all but one person is stacked up inside the bomb, will that one person be the target?

thanks.

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