Damien

Feral Druid 7.2.5

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This thread is for comments about our Feral Druid guide for Legion.

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If I understand correctly, we should still use SoC during the pre expansion patch although it's ranked at place 56 in the BIS list? Heirloom (against Demons) or Skull of War as 2nd trinket?

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From what I've seen these numbers are not actually current with what is being released on patch day, which thus may make some of the talents differ in weight now.

 

Soul of the Forest now gives 12 energy per combo point, up from 6 (was 8 at an earlier time). 

Savage Roar now increases your damage by 25%, down from 30%. 

Jagged Wounds deal damage 40% faster, instead of 33%. 

I do believe all of these we updated within the past two weeks. 

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12 hours ago, Guest Miyra said:

Jagged Wounds deal damage 40% faster, instead of 33%. 

You're mostly correct, but they reverted the Jagged Wounds change on Friday, it's back to 33%

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13 hours ago, Guest Miyra said:

From what I've seen these numbers are not actually current with what is being released on patch day, which thus may make some of the talents differ in weight now.

 

Soul of the Forest now gives 12 energy per combo point, up from 6 (was 8 at an earlier time). 

Savage Roar now increases your damage by 25%, down from 30%. 

Jagged Wounds deal damage 40% faster, instead of 33%. 

I do believe all of these we updated within the past two weeks. 

Thank you for noticing this, I'm fixing it right now (except for Jagged Wounds which, as was pointed out, has been reverted).

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There is a bit of misinformation on the first page of the guide:

 

Quote

Incarnation does in fact provide a damage increase, as it boosts the damage of Shred and Rake by granting the stealth bonus. This is mentioned later in the guide on the talents page, but not on the first page of the guide where legion changes are addressed.

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There are a few things worth noting, some of which has already been mentioned ( i previously posted as a guest, so feel free to disregard that post entirely).

  • Quote

    Incarnation: King of the Jungle Icon Incarnation: King of the Jungle replaces Berserk Icon Berserk, and no longer grants a damage increase.

    Incarnation does in fact provide a damage increase, as it boosts the damage of Shred and Rake by granting the stealth bonus. This is mentioned later in the guide on the talents page, but not on the first page of the guide where legion changes are addressed.

  • Talent tiers 5 and 7 have recently changed
    • Soul of the Forest is now far stronger (12 energy per CP instead of 6), and very well may compete with Savage Roar for best in tier.
    • While Moment of Clarity hasn't directly changed, the proc chance of Omen of Clarity has gone up by 50% (from 3.5ppm to 5.25ppm) , which significantly buffs Moment of Clarity as a result, meaning it may be the preferred talent in this tier.
  • Our AOE has changed recently as well, so looking into our AOE rotation may be warranted. Damage was nerfed while our overall energy regen has gone up (through OOC procs and buff to SotF).
  • Quote

    The DPS Feral Druid rotation is a balance of keeping up several bleeds on the target as well as keeping up Savage Roar Icon Savage Roar on yourself, while continuously generating Combo Points.

    Perhaps consider mentioning that SR is a talent? This feels like it hasn't been updated from 6.2 quite yet.

  • Quote

    There is a lot of free time in your rotation, and this means there is usually no rush to spend your Energy. 

    With the SotF talent and new OOC proc chance (and possibly MoC as well), the spec plays incredibly fast. Might be worth adjusting this as well, but obviously not critical. This talent layout may end up being optimal as well, depending on the sims that need to be done.

  • It might be worth adding the Jagged Wounds talent to the "When to refresh bleeds" under the effects that affect the damage of your bleeds. While it doesn't directly affect the damage, the duration difference is a significant dps increase.

  • Quote

    It is, however, important to note that if you have 5 Combo Points and 12 or fewer seconds left on Savage Roar, you can refresh it without losing any of its duration.

    I could be wrong, but the pandemic mechanic only brings up to 30% of the remaining duration of the buff, so that would mean you should only refresh SR at <= 7.2 seconds remaining.

  • Ferals now gain 50% bonus Haste from gear. This may affect stat weights. Only mentioning as this was changed at the same time the other feral changes went through that aren't reflected in the guide.

That is all I see for now. Hopefully this comes across as helpful and not arrogant. 

 

Edited by Hobbes

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CORRECTING

 

WRONG 8. Tier 7 (Level 100) Talents

  • Bloodtalons IconBloodtalons causes Healing Touch IconHealing Touch casts to make the next two melee abilities (used within 30 seconds) deal 50% increased damage for their full duration (which is of notable relevance if they are Bleeds).

RIGHT 8. Tier 7 (Level 100) Talents

  • Bloodtalons IconBloodtalons causes Healing Touch IconHealing Touch casts to make the next two melee abilities (used within 30 seconds) deal 30% increased damage for their full duration (which is of notable relevance if they are Bleeds).

 

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o/

So... Are you quite sure about Tier 5 and Tier 6 placements?

Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't 60 energy gain per finisher be at least on par with Savage roar in terms of target-dummy-class fights? The old 20 energy version was a joke, yes, the one we saw on PTR (40 energy total/5 CP) was also quite meh, but now its pretty much a free Tiger's Fury every time we use a finisher! Please consider calculating the outcome.

Same goes for Tier 6. Current (live) tooltip indicates 33% speed-up bonus, not 40% one. Wouldn't permanent 'execute'-state be slightly better than these hastened DOTs on a single target? It is quite obvious that Jagged Wounds ranks #1 for AOE encounters, but standalone bosses might actually yield higher DPS for us if we go for Sabertooth. Am I wrong?

Tier 7 is questionable since I have no 100% certain proof of changes in PPM of the Clarity talent. Still, it looks like a decent option to me. Could you please also check/confirm this?

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Hello guys. Thank you for all the awesome feedback. I'm updating the Bloodtalons text (it's actually 40% now, not 50% nor 30%), and I'm going to make some updates based on all your comments. I'll keep you posted.

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Hey there

For the Tier 6 talent Sabertooth, I'm interested in how damage compares if you were to open with a very strong (TF/Bloodtalons/Agi Pot/Trinket Procs) Rip on the boss and refresh this for the entire fight? This would also give the opportunity for extra Bloodtalons abilities as Rip is set for the rest of the fight.

And just another little point  for the Multiple Target Rotation section - perhaps this could include how Tier 7 Brutal Slash measures up as it was mentioned this talent could be good with large add packs.

Fantastic guide! :) 

 

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What do you upon reaching 5 combo points, if it is not yet time to refresh either Rip or Savage Roar, but one or both will drop before you have time to build up 5 more combo points? This feels like a very common situation to me.

In general I feel too energy starved to hope for high uptime on my dots/buffs:
5 combo points costs ~160 energy; I regen 12 energy per sec = 13 seconds for 5cp.
Rip's duration is 16 seconds, meaning it requires 13/16 = 80% of my total energy production.
Savage Roar at 24 seconds requires 13/24 = 54% of energy production.
So we're at 134% of available energy just to keep these two buffs up.
How would anyone ever cast Ferocious Bite (outside of execute range)?
 

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Sorry, haven't recognized the comment section for the guides and posted my feedback in the druid forum. 

Quote

[..]  Note that when doing this, you should switch to a Spellpower weapon to increase your spell damage.

This seems to be a little mistake in the guide. I was wondering, because it wasn't mentioned in the Guardian guide and I made a litte test, which showed me, that taking a caster weapon decreases my DPS. More details here: Balance Affinity - Feedback.

 

If my test is wrong and we should use a caster weapon, I would recommend call it caster weapon or intellect weapon, since spell power is gone or better said transformed into intellect. 

Edited by Dradux

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I'll be doing several updates to this guide tonight. Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I'll post back when it's done.

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On July 19, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Hobbes said:

There are a few things worth noting, some of which has already been mentioned ( i previously posted as a guest, so feel free to disregard that post entirely).

  • Incarnation does in fact provide a damage increase, as it boosts the damage of Shred and Rake by granting the stealth bonus. This is mentioned later in the guide on the talents page, but not on the first page of the guide where legion changes are addressed.

  • Talent tiers 5 and 7 have recently changed
    • Soul of the Forest is now far stronger (12 energy per CP instead of 6), and very well may compete with Savage Roar for best in tier.
    • While Moment of Clarity hasn't directly changed, the proc chance of Omen of Clarity has gone up by 50% (from 3.5ppm to 5.25ppm) , which significantly buffs Moment of Clarity as a result, meaning it may be the preferred talent in this tier.
  • Our AOE has changed recently as well, so looking into our AOE rotation may be warranted. Damage was nerfed while our overall energy regen has gone up (through OOC procs and buff to SotF).
  • Perhaps consider mentioning that SR is a talent? This feels like it hasn't been updated from 6.2 quite yet.

  • With the SotF talent and new OOC proc chance (and possibly MoC as well), the spec plays incredibly fast. Might be worth adjusting this as well, but obviously not critical. This talent layout may end up being optimal as well, depending on the sims that need to be done.

  • It might be worth adding the Jagged Wounds talent to the "When to refresh bleeds" under the effects that affect the damage of your bleeds. While it doesn't directly affect the damage, the duration difference is a significant dps increase.

  • I could be wrong, but the pandemic mechanic only brings up to 30% of the remaining duration of the buff, so that would mean you should only refresh SR at <= 7.2 seconds remaining.

  • Ferals now gain 50% bonus Haste from gear. This may affect stat weights. Only mentioning as this was changed at the same time the other feral changes went through that aren't reflected in the guide.

That is all I see for now. Hopefully this comes across as helpful and not arrogant. 

 

When I say that Incarnation doesn't offer a DPS boost, I mean that it doesn't offer a straight increase to damage done. Indirectly, of course it does.

Tooltips should be updated.

Added  Jagged Wounds to when to refresh bleeds section, and updated SR to <= 7.2 seconds.

Thanks a lot for the feedback!

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Savage Roar is now a finishing move, which has created a great deal of confusion for me in regards to finishing move rotations, which, with the Savage Roar talent, are Rip, Ferocious Bite, Maim and Savage Roar.

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Cannot seem to find any info on it besides people talking about sims, but how exactly is SR/JW supposed to be viable? Has it been tested at 110 with artifact and legendaries and/or decent gear?

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1.1. With Incarnation: King of the Jungle

  1. Agility;
  2. Critical Strike (up to 50%, or 40% if you are using the Blood Scent Icon Blood Scent talent);
  3. Versatility;
  4. Critical Strike;
  5. Mastery;
  6. Haste.


Fix this please, why putting two critical strike stats? 

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On August 7, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Guest Come said:

1.1. With Incarnation: King of the Jungle

  1. Agility;
  2. Critical Strike (up to 50%, or 40% if you are using the Blood Scent Icon Blood Scent talent);
  3. Versatility;
  4. Critical Strike;
  5. Mastery;
  6. Haste.


Fix this please, why putting two critical strike stats? 

There is nothing to fix. The first Critical Strike is specifically up to the cap of 50%. If you have attained that, then Versatility is better than additional Critical Strike, but additional Critical Strike is still superior to Mastery and Haste. Does that make sense?

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Been testing the dummies a bit and I was wondering if the following is correct:

1) Apply Rip with Tiger's Fury or Bloodtalons. It does increased damage.

2) Renew Rip with Ferocious Bite. It still does increased damage.

3) Renew Rip with Rip. It goes back to normal damage.

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For AoE I've been testing a method where I shift into bear instead and just spam swipe and let thrash stacks build.  It seems to be giving me higher output because I'm not limited by energy and it can be spammed.

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On 8/9/2016 at 6:51 PM, Vlad said:

There is nothing to fix. The first Critical Strike is specifically up to the cap of 50%. If you have attained that, then Versatility is better than additional Critical Strike, but additional Critical Strike is still superior to Mastery and Haste. Does that make sense?

I see what you mean there, might need to put a p.s. about that because i'm pretty sure some people might get confused with such thing like me.

Thanks for explain it.

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Hello~! Lovely guide here. I was wondering, when exactly in the rotation should I start savage roar? All I see is, "have it on at all times," Do I first rake, then savage roar, then rake again for the DPS boost? Very confused. Thanks!

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On 8/11/2016 at 9:59 PM, Guest Prowl said:

For AoE I've been testing a method where I shift into bear instead and just spam swipe and let thrash stacks build.  It seems to be giving me higher output because I'm not limited by energy and it can be spammed.

I have had good results with this as well. However, I do not have the HFC Tier 4 set or the Seed of Creation.

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