Damien

Guardian Druid 7.3

172 posts in this topic

On 10/4/2016 at 1:29 PM, Guest Guest Martinson said:

Alright. Might I suggest updating the BIS page for verse and mastery pieces you can get in mythic +s? I've seen 880 pieces with the right stats that drop from those. And some druid tanks might be pursuing the 'BiS' from the Emerald Nightmare, and gimping themselves in the process. I see a lot of tanks, especially druid tanks as we are the bandwagon tank, just wear what ever has the higher item level with no thoughts of minmaxing.

Hello Martinson,

First I would recommended to anyone, try to achieve a 850 ILVL gear piece in every slot before looking to start min-maxing regardless of the stats.

If you already have a gear piece that has vers and mastery on it, and get a higher ILVL gear piece that does not have Vers and Mastery on it but it is a 11-15+ ILVL upgrade you should equip it. If the higher ILVL gear piece has Vers/Non-mastery stats or Mastery/Non-vers stats I would equip it if it is a 10 ILVL upgrade. 

Edited by untameable

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On 10/3/2016 at 10:43 AM, Guest Druid! said:

Hello - 

I was looking for stat weights that line up with this guide's recommended stat priority (that would also include Stamina values) but I could not find any... i.e. how much of an ilvl upgrade would an item with Haste and Crit need to be to take it over Versatility?

The haste/crit item would have to be a 11-15+ILVL upgrade.

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On 10/5/2016 at 2:04 PM, untameable said:

Hello Martinson,

First I would recommended to anyone, try to achieve a 850 ILVL gear piece in every slot before looking to start min-maxing regardless of the stats.

If you already have a gear piece that has vers and mastery on it, and get a higher ILVL gear piece that does not have Vers and Mastery on it but it is a 11-15+ ILVL upgrade you should equip it. If the higher ILVL gear piece has Vers/Non-mastery stats or Mastery/Non-vers stats I would equip it if it is a 10 ILVL upgrade. 

Is that due to a valuable increase of armor and stamina?

I have a pair of 830 boots for example with 807 agility, 212 armor, 1211 stamina, 298 versatility, and 609 mastery.

I have a pair of 845 mythic boots with 232 armor, 929 agility, 1393 stamina, 645 crit and 315 versatility.

On the stats weight page it says:

Verse>=Mastery

Haste

Agility

Crit

It says don't actively focus on stacking stamina (and I presume armor), unless I misinterpret that, so I don't really regard stamina or armor, and even agility on some upgrades as they are presented to be a rather unimportant stat.

So if you assign a rough metric of 1 point of verse being 7, mastery being 6 haste being 5, agi 4, crit 3, stamina 2, armor 2.

The top pair, despite being 15 points higher isn't an upgrade. I'm not saying you're wrong. But could you let us know what stat weights or metrics you're using? Because by that very simple and very possibly wrong analysis, taking any item that is simply 15 points higher in item level, isn't an upgrade.

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7 hours ago, Guest Martinson said:

It says don't actively focus on stacking stamina (and I presume armor), unless I misinterpret that, so I don't really regard stamina or armor, and even agility on some upgrades as they are presented to be a rather unimportant stat.

The only threshold you should be looking at here is to stop yourself getting 1-shot by whatever content you are progressing, basically. Healers can't heal you if you die too fast for them to actually get casts off!

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5 hours ago, Blainie said:

The only threshold you should be looking at here is to stop yourself getting 1-shot by whatever content you are progressing, basically. Healers can't heal you if you die too fast for them to actually get casts off!

Well that's not an issue, and I understand that it is my priority, better damage taking capabilities is the whole point of better tanking gear. I'm trying to figure out the math behind what Untamable suggested. Damage reduction is the point of choosing your gear obviously, and that is the threshold I'm choosing. But what is the amount of armor, stamina and agility on a new piece of gear to make choosing a poorly itemized piece over a well itemized piece. Those stat weights I posted are obvious enough, but they may not be correct. If Untamable or other people want to give me their values or what they are assuming, what they use in any stat weight addons, what their threshold is for stam/agi/armor increase makes poorly itemized piece better than a well itemized piece, I'll be golden. I'm looking for some objectivity, math or reason behind sacrificing a lot of verse or mastery for crit and haste. Obviously Stamina and Armor are important but the stats portion of the druid guide don't point where they are in regards to the other stats, which is important.

I apologize for seeming belligerent on this topic, I just don't like stepping into high item level pieces and seeing my crit go way up, and see my mastery and verse go down, which seems to be the case in Emerald Nightmare, when I'm content holding out for well itemized pieces from mythic +. Maybe I'm obsessing over this, but I like to know the math and logic behind theory crafting.

 

Thank you for answering all my questions thus far.

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13 hours ago, Guest Martinson said:

Is that due to a valuable increase of armor and stamina?

I have a pair of 830 boots for example with 807 agility, 212 armor, 1211 stamina, 298 versatility, and 609 mastery.

I have a pair of 845 mythic boots with 232 armor, 929 agility, 1393 stamina, 645 crit and 315 versatility.

On the stats weight page it says:

Verse>=Mastery

Haste

Agility

Crit

It says don't actively focus on stacking stamina (and I presume armor), unless I misinterpret that, so I don't really regard stamina or armor, and even agility on some upgrades as they are presented to be a rather unimportant stat.

So if you assign a rough metric of 1 point of verse being 7, mastery being 6 haste being 5, agi 4, crit 3, stamina 2, armor 2.

The top pair, despite being 15 points higher isn't an upgrade. I'm not saying you're wrong. But could you let us know what stat weights or metrics you're using? Because by that very simple and very possibly wrong analysis, taking any item that is simply 15 points higher in item level, isn't an upgrade.

Hello,

Answer to your first question: Yes it is due to the increase of armor,stamina,and agility

Stamina and armor should not be regarded as unimportant stats.Armor is our most important stat,especially for guardians druids because of how our active mitigation works. Versatility and mastery only have the highest value as the best secondary stats we can prioritize to maximize survival. Also,I cant give you a general stat weight because stat weights vary from the type of content you are doing so that is why we give a general stat priority of the best stats for the class instead.

 

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48 minutes ago, untameable said:

Hello,

Answer to your first question: Yes it is due to the increase of armor,stamina,and agility

Stamina and armor should not be regarded as unimportant stats.Armor is our most important stat,especially for guardians druids because of how our active mitigation works. Versatility and mastery only have the highest value as the best secondary stats we can prioritize to maximize survival. Also,I cant give you a general stat weight because stat weights vary from the type of content you are doing so that is why we give a general stat priority of the best stats for the class instead.

 

Hey! Thank you. And sorry, I misread somethings that you had said just now. But thank you for that tidbit about armor.

Edited by Martinson

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24 minutes ago, Martinson said:

Hey! Thank you. Please do give me those stat weights, that way I can stop obsessing over this! I'd love to hear your thoughts on them all.

To get stat weights that work, you need to use the different types of tank sim that Simcraft has. Can you show me your character armoury? Just PM it to me.

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22 minutes ago, Blainie said:

To get stat weights that work, you need to use the different types of tank sim that Simcraft has. Can you show me your character armoury? Just PM it to me.

Will do in a bit.

Thank you and Untamable for the advice so far.

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1 hour ago, Vardex said:

Hey can someone give me an overall trinket tier list? I know DMF is super op but I don't know what I should put with it.

Hello Vardex

If you list what trinkets you have I can give you a recommendation.

Trinkets rankings vary on what content you are doing, I'll actually try and get some general recommendations for trinkets for specific content on the BIS page soon.

 

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38 minutes ago, untameable said:

Hello Vardex

If you list what trinkets you have I can give you a recommendation.

Trinkets rankings vary on what content you are doing, I'll actually try and get some general recommendations for trinkets for specific content on the BIS page soon.

 

Yeah that would be great, I currently have DMF (850), Ichor (850), Nightwell (850), Alchemist stone (850) and Horn of Valor (845), I'm looking what are the best two for everyday use, doing mythic+, world quests and hm raid. Thanks.

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Everyday Use/World Quests              

  1.  Alchemist's Stone
  2. Ichor/Horn of valor

Mythic +

  1. Ichor
  2. Alchemist Stone
  • Just note that once you start feeling like you need to be tankier (Id say mythic +5 and up) you should use DMF and Ichor

Emerald Nightmare (For progression, if you are not worried about your damage output)

  1. DMF (Phyiscal damage heavy encounter *Like Ursoc) / Nightwell (When you want another minor cooldown *For example taking cenarius spear of nightmares or the beasts eyeblast on il'gynoth)
  2. Ichor

 

 

Edited by untameable

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7 hours ago, untameable said:

Everyday Use/World Quests              

  1.  Alchemist's Stone
  2. Ichor/Horn of valor

Mythic +

  1. Ichor
  2. Alchemist Stone
  • Just note that once you start feeling like you need to be tankier (Id say mythic +5 and up) you should use DMF and Ichor

Emerald Nightmare (For progression, if you are not worried about your damage output)

  1. DMF (Phyiscal damage heavy encounter *Like Ursoc) / Nightwell (When you want another minor cooldown *For example taking cenarius spear of nightmares or the beasts eyeblast on il'gynoth)
  2. Ichor

 

 

Thank you!

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4 hours ago, Bendy said:

Hi, someone use the addon Pawn? Where i can find a string for guardian druid?

Simcraft is the best way to find a Pawn string.

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Ok, I've got a Agi Vers 845 trink, (from WQ, just a stat stick) and Phantasmal Echo 850, right before I went on raid i bought Darkmoon Deck Immortality, but i haven't equipped it yet, wondering if i really need to now... advice?

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6 hours ago, Guest Pawesome said:

Ok, I've got a Agi Vers 845 trink, (from WQ, just a stat stick) and Phantasmal Echo 850, right before I went on raid i bought Darkmoon Deck Immortality, but i haven't equipped it yet, wondering if i really need to now... advice?

I'm honestly not sure, I'm sorry. I know that the deck is good, but I don't know "how" good it is and whether it's still worth getting with raid and M+ trinkets available. I'm tagging @untameable to see if he knows.

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9 hours ago, Guest Pawesome said:

Ok, I've got a Agi Vers 845 trink, (from WQ, just a stat stick) and Phantasmal Echo 850, right before I went on raid i bought Darkmoon Deck Immortality, but i haven't equipped it yet, wondering if i really need to now... advice?

Hey Pawesome,

You should in all raid encounters use the darkmoon deck over the phantasmal echo. Phantasmal echo would be a great trinket if it was an on use, but since its not it becomes really lackluster as it can proc at anytime and there is a low chance it will be when you actually need it. Dark-moon deck is in non-magic damage heavy encounters progression BIS. Even some of the top parses in WCL have a darkmoon deck https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10/#class=Druid&spec=Guardian

3 hours ago, Blainie said:

I'm honestly not sure, I'm sorry. I know that the deck is good, but I don't know "how" good it is and whether it's still worth getting with raid and M+ trinkets available. I'm tagging @untameable to see if he knows.

Even though the interaction with iron-fur was hotfixed/nerfed.It is still very good for guardian,I used it heavily during emerald nightmare progression and the trinket is extremely good for high levels of mythic +.

Edited by untameable

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I am wondering if there are any stats weight on Stamina, Armor, Mastery, Versa, Haste, Agi, and Crit

 

As for now i am going with 1.7 stam - 1.5 armor - 1.3 versa/mast, 1.1 Haste, 1.0 agi, 0.8 crit.

I know Stats Weight is not a good method for deciding which gear is better, especially not good for trinkets, for obvious reasons.

But i just want to know it for min/maxing reason.

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On 10/15/2016 at 6:17 PM, untameable said:

Even though the interaction with iron-fur was hotfixed/nerfed.It is still very good for guardian,I used it heavily during emerald nightmare progression and the trinket is extremely good for high levels of mythic +.

Ah, just wasn't sure how much of a difference the changes made. Haven't played Guardian since pre-trinket nerf. Thanks for picking that up anyway :)

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On 10/15/2016 at 11:24 PM, Guest FakeGodz said:

I know Stats Weight is not a good method for deciding which gear is better, especially not good for trinkets, for obvious reasons.

I don't have any to hand, but the best way to obtain them if you really want them is via SimCraft and TMI/ETMI/Dummy sims.

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On 16/10/2016 at 0:24 AM, Guest FakeGodz said:

I am wondering if there are any stats weight on Stamina, Armor, Mastery, Versa, Haste, Agi, and Crit

 

As for now i am going with 1.7 stam - 1.5 armor - 1.3 versa/mast, 1.1 Haste, 1.0 agi, 0.8 crit.

I know Stats Weight is not a good method for deciding which gear is better, especially not good for trinkets, for obvious reasons.

But i just want to know it for min/maxing reason.

Currently by trying different sim, I'm sitting on 11.48 armor, 1.11 vers, 0.89 mastery, 0.53 haste, 0.43 stamina, 0.25 crit, 0.16 agility

Edited by Vardex

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On 10/17/2016 at 7:31 PM, Vardex said:

Currently by trying different sim, I'm sitting on 11.48 armor, 1.11 vers, 0.89 mastery, 0.53 haste, 0.43 stamina, 0.25 crit, 0.16 agility

This looks a lot more likely. I think the user before was simply estimating "nice" numbers according to the priority.

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So I've noticed the rotation page hasn't been updated to the recent talent changes, namely Galactic Guardian. It says (at time of this post) to prioritize GG procs over everything else for the 15 rage it used to generate. My question is now that it generates the same amount of rage as a gore proc'd Mangle, where does it sit in the priority list now?

Will gore procs take its place? or will the priority remain unchanged?

Thanks in advance.

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