Damien

Assassination Rogue 7.2.5

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This thread is for comments about our Assassination Rogue guide for Legion.

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I feel like this guide isn't optimal yet. Let's begin with the opener section: Even though it's obvious to me, most of people will miss out to pre-cast Tricks of the Trade Tricks of the Trade on the main tank before the boss is pulled. In general the use of Tricks of the Trade Tricks of the Trade isn't mentioned, for example using it mid-fight to get spawned adds off the healers by transfering threat. Moreover Exsanguinate Exsanguinate is mentioned a lot during this guide, but it seems like it has been forgotten on the opener section.  What about KingsbaneKingsbane + a whole section for Artifact weapons?

A better opener would be:

Always start the pull from Stealth Stealth

-2. Pre-Cast Tricks of the Trade Tricks of the Trade on main tank

-1. Use Draenic Agility Potion Draenic Agility Potion right before the pull timer ends

0. Cast Shadowstep Shadowstep or Sprint Sprint 

1. Apply Garrote Garrote (awards the first combo point)

2. Apply Hemorrhage Hemorrhage (to make sure next Rupture is buffed. Awards the second combo point)

3. Cast Mutilate Mutilate twice (6 Combo Point Cap reached - notice that you could overcap due to a Seal Fate Seal Fate proc which theoretically leads to a DPS loss)

4. Activate Vendetta Vendetta (along with Racials e.g. Berserking Berserking and trinkets) on the primary target

5. Cast Vanish Vanish and follow up with a Rupture Rupture (which now is buffed by  Vendetta VendettaHemorrhage HemorrhageNightstalker Nightstalker and Berserking Berserking)

6. Cast Exsanguinate Exsanguinate 

7. Cast Kingsbane Kingsbane

8. Begin Mutilate Mutilate spam until you have 5-6 Combo Points and use them on Envenom Envenom to increase our Kingsbane Kingsbane buff

9. Reapply a 5-6 Combo Point Rupture Rupture

10. Garrote Garrote should be off cooldown now, reapply it and begin with normal single target rotation.

 

Just my thoughts :) Thanks for the effort tho!

Edited by Dexter

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We fixed the Exsanguinate issue 30 minutes ago or so :p It had been accidentally removed from the opener. I'll let Furty discuss the rest.

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I'm going through a lot of theory right now. A thing thats for sure, is, that you are missing DPS by not applying an early Hemorrhage. Even if you overcap then, I don't think that it's even worth going for a 6CP Rupture without Hemorrhage's 25% dmg buff + the bleeding from Hemorrhage until you reach that point. When you are at a single target rotation this is sure a thing to do, but I feel like it's not worth in the opener. Not quite sure tho, correct me here!

Questionable is (in my opener) if you should Vendetta after you are done with your 2 Mutilate's or before. Thing is that I definitely want to buff my refreshed bleeds (after they are gone because of Exsanguinate) with the 30% dmg buff from Vendetta for their full duration. Guess it's about timing right there. I don't know if you have enough time to re-apply them before Vendetta runs out. But I guess that if you get the bonus where you get full energy back from Vendetta (Urge to kill - by the artifact weapon), that it's more worth spamming Mutilate before, otherwise you pretty much waste the bonus. Except for that case I do agree on your way of using Vendetta.

Kingsbane addition is worth noticing tho.

Edited by Dexter

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Doesn't rupture have a longer duration if you re-cast it? Wouldn't it be better to vanish/rupture/exsanguinate on the second set of combo points? That way you get the burst for longer? 

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You should probably also mention the change in Vendetta usage when you get the artefact trait that makes it generate 100 energy on use because you're really not going to want to pool before you use it then O.o

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1 minute ago, Carmina said:

You should probably also mention the change in Vendetta usage when you get the artefact trait that makes it generate 100 energy on use because you're really not going to want to pool before you use it then O.o

This guide is currently intended to be used at level 100 with patch 7.0.3 - we haven't included artifact-specific information given that they cannot be obtained yet. To include rotation information about artifact traits would most likely just confuse people for now.

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Just now, Blainie said:

This guide is currently intended to be used at level 100 with patch 7.0.3 - we haven't included artifact-specific information given that they cannot be obtained yet. To include rotation information about artifact traits would most likely just confuse people for now.

That is a very good point sir! 

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@Dexter The Legion opener is quite a bit different due to the Artifact traits and lack of Maalus. 

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13 hours ago, Damien said:

This thread is for comments about our Assassination Rogue guide for Legion.

I've just noticed that some of the BiS trinkets have multistrike on them. That particular stat is being changed tomorrow morning - which might skewer your BiS list and give false information. Am I correct on this? If so, what's the BiS trinkets for tomorrow?

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Just now, Progression said:

I've just noticed that some of the BiS trinkets have multistrike on them. That particular stat is being changed tomorrow morning - which might skewer your BiS list and give false information. Am I correct on this? If so, what's the BiS trinkets for tomorrow?

Hey, I haven't really updated the gear section at all and have no plans to do so before Legion actually launches. I think we're working on a disclaimer for each guide that warns the reader to basically ignore the gear sections :) Cheers

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1 minute ago, Furty said:

Hey, I haven't really updated the gear section at all and have no plans to do so before Legion actually launches. I think we're working on a disclaimer for each guide that warns the reader to basically ignore the gear sections :) Cheers

Roger that - thanks for all your work none the less. What two trinkets would you predict we should aim for as an Assassination Rogue 7.0.3?

 

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28 minutes ago, Progression said:

Roger that - thanks for all your work none the less. What two trinkets would you predict we should aim for as an Assassination Rogue 7.0.3?

 

Sims are saying Skull of War & Stone of the Elements right now!

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56 minutes ago, Progression said:

I've just noticed that some of the BiS trinkets have multistrike on them. That particular stat is being changed tomorrow morning - which might skewer your BiS list and give false information. Am I correct on this? If so, what's the BiS trinkets for tomorrow?

Your BiS trinkets are Stone of the Elements and Skull of War, closely followed by the 710 PvP Trinket. This is assuming fully upgraded versions of the initial two mentioned, and includes comparisons to all other available Mythic trinkets.

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Just wanted to point out that the Pandemic behaviour is not based on the original cast, but rather on how much combo points you have at the moment, ie the current cast. So even if you previous rupture was 1 CP if you have 5 CP you can refresh at (4+(5*4))*0.3 seconds remaining, same with 6/4/3 CPs etc.

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10 minutes ago, Guest Xaryen said:

Just wanted to point out that the Pandemic behaviour is not based on the original cast, but rather on how much combo points you have at the moment, ie the current cast. So even if you previous rupture was 1 CP if you have 5 CP you can refresh at (4+(5*4))*0.3 seconds remaining, same with 6/4/3 CPs etc.

http://pastebin.com/6DDK5uDW I believe that one should be working properly, from Aneuryzm's video (which I guess came from you Xaryen :p)

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Thanks for those guides.

It's not clearly stated, should we only used 6CP finisher for rupture and evenom ?
If yes we can potentially lost 3CP when using Mutiliate with 5CP.
If no what is the acceptable value 5CP finisher, 4CP finihser?
Or maybe it depends of the intent if it has to be cast for Exsanguinate use?

On Exsanguinate usage you stated "ensure that your bleeds are always fully refreshed for Exsanguinate Icon Exsanguinate" What should we do? refresh rupture just before Exsanguinate CD end and potentialy loose some Rupture time? Or should we delay for the Pandemic optimal time to refresh it ?

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13 minutes ago, Guest Tomate said:

Thanks for those guides.

It's not clearly stated, should we only used 6CP finisher for rupture and evenom ?
If yes we can potentially lost 3CP when using Mutiliate with 5CP.
If no what is the acceptable value 5CP finisher, 4CP finihser?
Or maybe it depends of the intent if it has to be cast for Exsanguinate use?

On Exsanguinate usage you stated "ensure that your bleeds are always fully refreshed for Exsanguinate Icon Exsanguinate" What should we do? refresh rupture just before Exsanguinate CD end and potentialy loose some Rupture time? Or should we delay for the Pandemic optimal time to refresh it ?

You should always use your finishers with 6CP even if some combo points are clipped by Mutilate. For every exsang you can set up in advance to ensure you won't lose uptime, but if it comes to it, overwrite your current Rupture for a fully refreshed one.

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Hey guys~
I love the forums and guides, pretty much everything you do. This is my first time really participating in anything though.
I have been a subtlety rogue for a very long time, though I sometimes switch up to combat (which is now gone). And I have spent several LARGE chunks of time away from the game.
I was wondering what the learning curve was going to be if I switched to Assassination. I am unsure how much raiding I am going to do, though I would like to do some of course. I am only level 95 as of today on my rogue, but I plan on being 100 soon so I can be ready for launch. If you think I should/could switch with little issue please let me know!

Thanks everyone.

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Just now, Randon said:

Hey guys~
I love the forums and guides, pretty much everything you do. This is my first time really participating in anything though.
I have been a subtlety rogue for a very long time, though I sometimes switch up to combat (which is now gone). And I have spent several LARGE chunks of time away from the game.
I was wondering what the learning curve was going to be if I switched to Assassination. I am unsure how much raiding I am going to do, though I would like to do some of course. I am only level 95 as of today on my rogue, but I plan on being 100 soon so I can be ready for launch. If you think I should/could switch with little issue please let me know!

Thanks everyone.

Ahoy! I know this isn't Outlaw but I've got my pirate mog ready for the patch today >:) Learning curve is pretty low for this spec, essentially you just have to track your bleeds to make sure they don't fall off and Exsanguinate when available. As long as you're not energy or wasting CP in between Exsang then you're fine. Of course there's higher level optimizations than that, but you will do just fine if you can manage the basics.

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2 minutes ago, Furty said:

Ahoy! I know this isn't Outlaw but I've got my pirate mog ready for the patch today >:) Learning curve is pretty low for this spec, essentially you just have to track your bleeds to make sure they don't fall off and Exsanguinate when available. As long as you're not energy or wasting CP in between Exsang then you're fine. Of course there's higher level optimizations than that, but you will do just fine if you can manage the basics.

Thanks Furty!
I am curious about the whole Outlaw thing, I have always felt Rogues should be dagger only spec, no ifs ands or buts. A pirate theme seems interesting to me, I would probably have a lot of fun with it, but I feel guns should be left to hunters. *Personal Opinion*

I am going to check it out as well, since it will be my second spec (or would it make sense to switch Outlaw with Assassination and leave subtlety as my second spec since I am proficient with it?)

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22 minutes ago, Randon said:

 

Thanks Furty!
I am curious about the whole Outlaw thing, I have always felt Rogues should be dagger only spec, no ifs ands or buts. A pirate theme seems interesting to me, I would probably have a lot of fun with it, but I feel guns should be left to hunters. *Personal Opinion*

I am going to check it out as well, since it will be my second spec (or would it make sense to switch Outlaw with Assassination and leave subtlety as my second spec since I am proficient with it?)

I personally will be going into this patch as Assassination and Outlaw. Subtlety is comparable damage to Assassination for single target in the prepatch if you're using a Bleeding Hollow Toxin Vessel. Personal preference, basically.

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I am a noob apparently. We no longer have to choose just 2 specs, we can freely bounce around, apparently I missed that in the notes. So I am going to try it out, thanks for the advice and great guide to get me going!

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17 hours ago, Furty said:

@Dexter The Legion opener is quite a bit different due to the Artifact traits and lack of Maalus. 

Well ok. Does it more or less come close to what I am planning to do as an opener? Or is it completely different? Also: Is it worth to cast an early Hemorrhage, so you 100% get the 25% dmg buff on Rupture? Or is it possible to Rupture first, Hemmorrhage then and still buff Rupture with it?

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14 minutes ago, Dexter said:

Well ok. Does it more or less come close to what I am planning to do as an opener? Or is it completely different? Also: Is it worth to cast an early Hemorrhage, so you 100% get the 25% dmg buff on Rupture? Or is it possible to Rupture first, Hemmorrhage then and still buff Rupture with it?

The Hemo buff isn't snapshot, it's dynamic, hence the two options depending on whether you're at 6CP or not (so there's no CP overflow)

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