Assassination Rogue 7.3

[MrOger 20]

Well... I do not know if it its my pure noobness, or just lucky soul prism procs, but getting agonizing brought me nearby +4k dps (not serious logging, just looking in advanced recount report at H manno and H reaver)

Edited August 16, 2016 by MrOger

[Carrn 284]

4 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

I noticed that seal fate works on fan of knives in an interesting way. If you crit, you get an extra combo point, but you can crit on multiple enemies gaining more than just one bonus combo point. As an example, in shadowmoon burial grounds there are several fights with spiders. The little spiders group up on the tank, allowing you to tunnel the big spiders. If you FoK the group, getting 6 combo points from that one attack is possible. If you repeat that, with some lucky crits you can pass the aoe of an outlaw rogue due to full cp ruptures on everyone and venomous wounds proccing on every tick for massive energy regen.

Good news as far as i am concerned if you have a decent crit %, as this allows you to actually aoe effectively.

Sorta disapointed with this guide not even mentioning an aoe rotation, I know we tunnel better than most but we are not weak in aoe unless everything is spread. 

Finally, this sites outlaw guide includes the stat weights for that spec. I would like to see assassinations stat weights as well, possibly with an explanation of how they were obtained. If this is done, please confirm master poisoner doesnt affect these weights.

There likely won't be updates showing that in the next 2 weeks, since our focus is on Legion's release, but we will be looking to add some extra details here and there

As for Assassination's AoE damage, it's still very negligible. Incredibly so, in fact. Yes, Fan of Knives can offer a lot of cp if you get crits, but it still deals very low damage. Rupture is Sin's main source of damage, making up to 40% of it on any given fight or more if you're cleaving 2-3 targets. The problem with this is that in mass AoE situations the adds aren't dying slowly enough for Rupture to deal damage, and Envenom alone isn't a strong enough skill to make Sin compete with other classes AoE

This is actually fine, I think, since specs can't be good at everything. Sin has good single target damage - that's its niche

[Guest JPax]

Why would you pick Thuggee or Prey on the Weak over Internal Bleeding?  To me it seems the best choice bar none, offering not only another bleed DoT, but additional energy regeneration from Venomous Wounds. You'd have more passive DoT damage, and the ability to spam mutilate and Envenom more frequently, surely?

[Carrn 284]

6 hours ago, Guest JPax said:

Why would you pick Thuggee or Prey on the Weak over Internal Bleeding?  To me it seems the best choice bar none, offering not only another bleed DoT, but additional energy regeneration from Venomous Wounds. You'd have more passive DoT damage, and the ability to spam mutilate and Envenom more frequently, surely?

It's not so much about the damage, since lots of mobs in raids aren't stunnable. It's more to make it easier to Garrote an add in a fight and not worry about wasting Garrote damage by having it be on cooldown for the full duration even if the mob only lived for a few seconds.

[Guest JPax]

15 minutes ago, Carrn said:

It's not so much about the damage, since lots of mobs in raids aren't stunnable. It's more to make it easier to Garrote an add in a fight and not worry about wasting Garrote damage by having it be on cooldown for the full duration even if the mob only lived for a few seconds.

That's fairly sound. Just to confirm, internal bleeding does proc the Venomous Wounds passive though?

[Carrn 284]

11 hours ago, Guest JPax said:

That's fairly sound. Just to confirm, internal bleeding does proc the Venomous Wounds passive though?

I haven't tested it myself, but yes I believe that's the case

[Guest JPax]

Just found out that mobs that are immune to stun are ALSO immune to the DoT portion of Internal Bleeding. This makes it useless on boss and raid encounters for dps improvements.

[Carrn 284]

8 hours ago, Guest JPax said:

Just found out that mobs that are immune to stun are ALSO immune to the DoT portion of Internal Bleeding. This makes it useless on boss and raid encounters for dps improvements.

That's exactly what I said above, although I see how you may have misunderstood me

[Guest Kasumí]

Interested to see what the sims and the experts will say when they rebalance after the nerf to Exsanganate

[Furty 51]

1 hour ago, Guest Kasumí said:

Interested to see what the sims and the experts will say when they rebalance after the nerf to Exsanganate

Exsanguinate was still the go-to after the nerfs. After the recent buffs to poisons and Rupture nerfs that *may* change but with Artifacts I doubt it.

[Guest Kenion]

Fyi on your new opener, we cant just apply rup without CPs first it doesnt work.

[Guest Dulkin]

Hi! I'm Dulkin, and i play assa since MoP - mostly casual unfortuneatly :( but I think that bothers me. Why did you change Elaborate Planning > Hemo ? Is it because of recently buff of Elaborate to 15% ? Is it that much, it's better than Hemo ? 25 % to bleed effects from garrote and Rup is strong I think.... and 15% of any thing for 5 sec... I dont know... maybe Mut x 2 and Envenom ? 

[Squeakyshoes 0]

I would just like to find out why Icy-veins considers outlaw the go to spec over assa?

It was looking as though assa was tops until the live release. Can anyone shed some light on this?

[lipsinch 46]

1 hour ago, Squeakyshoes said:

I would just like to find out why Icy-veins considers outlaw the go to spec over assa?

It was looking as though assa was tops until the live release. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Outlaw has great versatility, while Sin falls back really hard on AoE.

Where Sin fails, Outlaw shines. Where Sin shines, Outlaw has some insight too.

 

Edit:

Quote

Elaborate Planning grants 12% damage for 5 seconds after using a finishing move.

Elaborate Planning grants 15% damage increase.

Edited August 31, 2016 by lipsinch
Subtle error alert

[Carrn 284]

1 hour ago, Squeakyshoes said:

I would just like to find out why Icy-veins considers outlaw the go to spec over assa?

It was looking as though assa was tops until the live release. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Cause both specs are relatively similar for the beginning of the expansion, but Outlaw pulls distinctly further ahead with set bonuses and a higher ilevel. 

Outlaw stays competitive with Sub through set bonuses and Mythic gear on Single Target, while having better multi target than both other specs.

It stands to reason that Outlaw is the go-to spec 

[Furty 51]

Also Outlaw has been repeatedly buffed but Assassination has been repeatedly nerfed.

[Guest Dulkin]

On 30.08.2016 at 9:00 PM, Guest Dulkin said:

Ok but still why Elaborate over Hemo? 3% really does the difference? 

 

[Carrn 284]

5 hours ago, Guest Dulkin said:

 

In short, yes.

The difference between the two is relatively small, but we wouldn't be doing our job if we didn't recommend the best setup.

[Guest phup]

In sims on askmrrobot elaborate planning ( or even master poisoner) plus Agonizing poison solidly beat any exsanguinate build. I looked at their rotation when you have exsanguinate on and it seems reasonable.  have the nerfs to bleeds and the buffs to poisons made the exsanguinate rotation no good anymore or are there problems with the mrrobot sim?

[Guest Slayke]

So i'm unclear on the agonizing poison portion.  I know it's not great on short fights, but in long fights it turns mastery into flat +% damage on everything.  I'm only leveling right now, but generally get +30 - 32% damage once it's up to 5 stacks, and with the daggers buffs to agonizing poison you can get even more damage when you use your finishing moves.  I just don't get the math on how that's not better than deadly poison's <10% damage in a fight.

[Furty 51]

21 hours ago, Guest Slayke said:

So i'm unclear on the agonizing poison portion.  I know it's not great on short fights, but in long fights it turns mastery into flat +% damage on everything.  I'm only leveling right now, but generally get +30 - 32% damage once it's up to 5 stacks, and with the daggers buffs to agonizing poison you can get even more damage when you use your finishing moves.  I just don't get the math on how that's not better than deadly poison's <10% damage in a fight.

Because bleeds still do more damage. Agonizing will likely take over in Nighthold as it scales better, but for now (especially with Artifact) Exsang still holds the crown.

[Guest Dachdegger]

Hey, could someone maybe update the Opener sequence for Assasination or write one down in the comments? I don´t think that the one shown right at the moment as the second rupture is casted with 0 CP? At least i neither get CP with vanish or vendetta.

Btw, at the moment im using the following opener (started from vanish):

Garrote, mutilate till 6 CP, Vendetta, Vanish, Rupture, Exanguinate, 2x mutilate, envenom, kingbane
 

 

[Guest simcraft]

There is new sim data. with hemo in -_-

[Guest SomeRogue]

Can someone explain me the Math behind [ elaborate planning ] being above Hemo?

Is it taking into consideration the energy regen we lose? is it taking in consideration the Vanish+Rupture?

 

[Guest Akemyie]

I would put haste slightly ahead of mastery, because of kingsbane. The AS increases the chances of getting a poison application, which gives you some more damages.