Protection Paladin 7.3

[Sunra 0]

I was raiding last night and someone commented that too much haste is bad. I basically try and get gear with haste and versatility on it. Is there such a thing as "too much of" any stat? If I had haste (higher number) and versatility (lower number) in every slot would I suffer? He said, "Well if you have 25% haste you are fine." He had no source for this information.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Sunra

[Guest Legendary changes.]

 I might be doing it wrong but Sephuz's Secret procs off cool down with avenger shield, doesn't matter if I interrupt or not, this ring has been amazing on my pally. Also Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus now just proc regardless of taking damage. Maybe not the best, but better than it used to be.

[Valks 2,373]

On 11/2/2016 at 7:55 PM, Guest Hakurennn said:

i just had Tyr's hand of faith drop as i was holy when doing the world boss and i have to say i think it deserves an honorable mention as a decent legendary, i now have a 4min LOH which is quick that kings at 5 mins.  i personally think its fairly powerful in the right situation.

I think the key part here is "in the right situation". It's either going to be when your healers can't keep up with the fight or if you're severely undergeared for the content you are doing. If you need to hit the panic button that often, something else is probably going wrong.

Definitely a more situational legendary, hence why it's not considered "as good" by the writer.

[Valks 2,373]

On 11/8/2016 at 4:09 PM, Migol said:

Need to update the legendaries section with the new Sephuz's secret; it was hotfixed so that Blinding light would no longer proc it (on immunes), but successfully interrupting with our shield throw does work. So...still good for some raid bosses, and very good for mythic+?

Will pass that on and get it updated, thanks! :)

[Guest Navinuath]

Doesn't affect the guide, but word on the street is Nihilum is RIP, so Treckie may want an update regarding his representation soon

[Rudy199 8]

Grotesque Statuette is not limited to single target, I just tested it in Val' Sharah pulling 5 moonkin mobs, they all get the debuff. You should update that info.

[Valks 2,373]

On 12/29/2016 at 1:34 AM, Guest Navinuath said:

Doesn't affect the guide, but word on the street is Nihilum is RIP, so Treckie may want an update regarding his representation soon

As it stands, I believe he is currently in the position of GM, so we'll update it when he decides on his new home or if he decides to stay.

[Valks 2,373]

19 hours ago, Rudy199 said:

Grotesque Statuette is not limited to single target, I just tested it in Val' Sharah pulling 5 moonkin mobs, they all get the debuff. You should update that info.

I've passed that on, thanks! :)

[Valks 2,373]

The guides are currently being updated for 7.1.5! I just wanted to leave a few notes for all of our users that might be getting ready to leave a comment:

• Some pages do not require updates. The "Last Updated" stat does not mean the page is out of date, it might just not have needed any changes. If you feel that it does, leave a comment telling us what needs changing and why.
• The process will not happen immediately - some guides will be updated faster than others simply due to the number of resources available. Be patient, they'll be ready when you need them!
• There might be some continuity errors when making small adjustments to large guide pages. If you do find one of these, just let us know in the comments and we'll get it fixed ASAP.
• "Why have you not taken into account X buff to X ability?" - remember, just because something got buffed, it doesn't mean it is now automatically better than the other options!

As always, we want to thank you all for being patient while we get things updated and I'm always available to help you all if you need it :)

[Guest Slyïn]

"  Uther's Guard increases the duration of your blessings and heals their target for a small amount; both of these effects are minimal and this is considered the worst legendary. If you do have it, there might be some encounter where 15-second  Blessing of Protection or  Blessing of Spellwarding is useful, but that is as far as its uses go. "

Well i disagree. In most encounters you will not use blessing of freedom wich means you can just use it on cooldown only to heal yourself (or anyone else) for 15% of your max health, on demand and on a 26 sec cooldown, making it a potentially stonger and more useful heal than Prydaz. It uses a GCD but if you really use it often it will really smoothen your damage absorbtions. At least i was using Thrayn this way before and it worked fairly well.

[Valks 2,373]

14 hours ago, Guest Slyïn said:

It uses a GCD but if you really use it often it will really smoothen your damage absorbtions. At least i was using Thrayn this way before and it worked fairly well.

The issue is, while this legendary can probably be used to have a very slightly more impactful effect, the stat allocation and guaranteed socket + triple on Prydaz means it is passively a better legendary then Uther's, meaning it is better by raw stat weights.

[Guest Hany]

In the last talent tier, you are saying that seraphim doesn't provide any survivability, this is totally untrue, it does take 2 shield of the righteous stacks, however it provides at least 15% of each stat; crit,haste, mastery and versatility and crit adds more parry chance, mastery gives more dmg reduction from shield of the righteous and versatility provides pure dmg reduction, around 5% plus the haste boost will allow you to recover your abilities and spam them faster, it is by far the best talent but it needs alot of practice and the extra dmg it provides especially for avenger's shield gives a nice dmg absorption.

 

[Valks 2,373]

12 hours ago, Guest Hany said:

In the last talent tier, you are saying that seraphim doesn't provide any survivability, this is totally untrue, it does take 2 shield of the righteous stacks, however it provides at least 15% of each stat; crit,haste, mastery and versatility and crit adds more parry chance, mastery gives more dmg reduction from shield of the righteous and versatility provides pure dmg reduction, around 5% plus the haste boost will allow you to recover your abilities and spam them faster, it is by far the best talent but it needs alot of practice and the extra dmg it provides especially for avenger's shield gives a nice dmg absorption.

These points are already taken into consideration:

Quote

 Seraphim does not exactly provide an increase in survivability, since despite its bonuses, it consumes charges of Shield of the Righteous, making it a great choice for increasing your damage output but not for reducing incoming damage. With the importance of Mythic+ in Legion, this is a very important talent to learn to use, as it requires careful planning and you need to think ahead a bit more if you want to use it safely. Generally, you will not use this for raids during progression, unless the damage the boss does is pretty low, but in dungeons its effects are strong, and can make Paladin tanks deal considerable amounts of damage in each pack; it is good on both single target and AoE, which is something the other talents lack.

The overall damage reduction is a net loss, but you can use it when you know there is downtime for increased damage. To sacrifice two stacks of your best constant damage reduction can basically be the end of you in progression if used at the wrong time. The talent is definitely a damage reduction sacrifice for increased damage output.

[rocius 0]

Been doing some personal testing in raids and dungeons, I was testing how is Holyshield vs Blessed hammer i dont have any data to prove my point, but during the past week since patch me and my healers really noticed that i'm getting a lot less dmg now, after the patch i started using Holyshield and swicth from haste/vers to haste/mastery i have 42.36% block chance atm. I found alot of math suggesting that Blessed hammer is better, but i just dont see how is it possible, when as i said me and my healers really see the diffrence now on how much heals is needed to keep me alive. I'm the only one noticing this or someone else also tried it and noticed it?

[Valks 2,373]

31 minutes ago, rocius said:

I'm the only one noticing this or someone else also tried it and noticed it?

From the guide:

Quote

 Holy Shield making you able to block magic attacks as well may sound good on paper, but in reality this damage reduction is still a gamble, so you could not rely on it to survive a strong nuke (anyway, you have  Shield of the Righteous for that), but instead you would take this talent just to reduce the overall incoming damage, which it does pretty effectively. It is usually recommended on encounters that either have mainly threatening magic damage (since  Blessed Hammer will not do anything against that) or that have a lot of smaller hits per minute, as in that case it will outshine Blessed Hammer.

This is the results of our testing and, as you can see, HS is better in some situations, worse in others.

[Guest TomahawkNT]

I wanted to point out, in talent build, the quick dismissal of the damage reduction from Knight Templar in tier 5. Especially combined with Cavalier, it grants reliable 20% damage reduction for 3 seconds every 22.5 seconds, It's basically a small Ardent Defender on a MUCH lower CD. The guide, however, makes it sound as though the damage reduction is negligible, when it amounts to 20% damage reduction at about 13% uptime if used on CD, which ignores it being used against predictable high damage attacks for even more use.

Admittedly, I see the benefit to Hand of the Protector as a reduced CD heal, as well as it's ability to heal others than yourself. But since Cavalier is already pointed out to be a reasonable pick in tier 4, the damage reduction on such a short CD and stacking to 6 seconds if not used on CD, would make it a stronger pick than it's said to be in the guide.

[rocius 0]

Blessing of Spellwarding is very usefull, not on all fights but most of them have abilities that really hurt and to be able to complete mitigate it is very nice. Cavalier is usefull for fights where movement is the key and when combined with Knight Templar it nice, but to me Hand of the Protector is so strong specialy when there is tons of aoe dmg and healers are busy.

[Valks 2,373]

On 1/18/2017 at 4:57 AM, Guest TomahawkNT said:

The guide, however, makes it sound as though the damage reduction is negligible, when it amounts to 20% damage reduction at about 13% uptime if used on CD, which ignores it being used against predictable high damage attacks for even more use.

Just quoting from the guide first:

Quote

The damage reduction it offers is nice, but it is hard to count on it as a tanking cooldown.

I feel like the damage reduction isn't noted as negligible - the statement most likely looks at the use of DS as a movement tool. Do you use KT in your own build? Do you often find that you have to make a choice between movement or damage reduction, especially in dungeon runs where you are most likely moving through fairly swiftly?

What would you hope for the evaluation to focus more on? Would you rate it higher than HotP? I need something to pass on to the writer/reviewer, since at the moment I'm not sure what to tell them to change!

Thanks :)

[rocius 0]

On 1/19/2017 at 7:01 PM, Blainie said:

 

 I need something to pass on to the writer/reviewer, since at the moment I'm not sure what to tell them to change!

Thanks :)

Would be nice to see, BIS list and if possible a "pawn" link, as for talents i think we still need to see how mythic raids will go.

[rocius 0]

Any updates when could we see, BIS list for gear? Mainly looking for information on trinkets and set pieces.

[Valks 2,373]

15 hours ago, rocius said:

Any updates when could we see, BIS list for gear? Mainly looking for information on trinkets and set pieces.

I've put in a note for the writer, hopefully we can get this put up very soon!

[Migol 425]

A note, Holy Shield is doing work on Krosus, since the majority of the damage comes from the Dot and not his melee hits. Looking over my logs, I think it would also beat out blessed hammer on Chronometric Anomaly and Star Auger. Not sure if you'd ever be inclined to add a "cheat sheet" spec for the current tier and optimal specs but it might be handy :)

[Valks 2,373]

26 minutes ago, Migol said:

A note, Holy Shield is doing work on Krosus, since the majority of the damage comes from the Dot and not his melee hits. Looking over my logs, I think it would also beat out blessed hammer on Chronometric Anomaly and Star Auger. Not sure if you'd ever be inclined to add a "cheat sheet" spec for the current tier and optimal specs but it might be handy :)

It could be something worth mentioning - generally we add specific information on "when" to use a talent in the analysis below, but we can look to possibly include cheat sheets in the future! :)

[Guest Huntertroll]

Is the gear in this guide out of date for BiS since it was last updated on the 10th of Jan.? Can we get an update please

[Valks 2,373]

1 minute ago, Guest Huntertroll said:

Is the gear in this guide out of date for BiS since it was last updated on the 10th of Jan.? Can we get an update please

It's currently EN-specific, it will be updated to Nighthold-specific shortly! Sorry for the delay :)