Retribution Paladin 7.3

[Guest Lightsedge]

23 hours ago, Ffont said:

Under Food it says that Savage Feast etc. will give you a Haste buff. It won't, it gives you a Strength buff, unless there

is some way to change your "attuned stat".

 

 

Did you actually get a str buff from feast or are you talking nonsense?

[PatrickHenry 293]

Regarding Avenging Wrath use -

Would putting AW on macro'd to Judgement be smart?
Judgement already hits harder than CS, and is buffed by Mastery even moreso. 

It will still last long enough to pull through the whole judgement debuff.  Is there a timing reason its delayed until after Judgment, or perhaps its to tie it into the ExecSent drop? 

[PatrickHenry 293]

On 7/25/2016 at 4:59 PM, Guest Ezenthor said:

You might want to add something about attempting to use JV when the judgement debuff is up in addition to using it when DP is procced. It's not entirely necessary as you have a lot of other things going on, but it is important to note (I feel) that the damage is increased when judgement is used as it's a holy power spender. I was actually surprised to not read anything about that and had to do my own in game testing to make sure that it was affected by judgement.

It might be helpful to add that information. 

Using the proc before any other spenders that might otherwise proc ANOTHER Divine Purpose is perhaps more important, in order to avoid wasting the DP in the first place. 

I see where you're coming from though, definitely.

[Vlad 411]

On July 25, 2016 at 5:54 AM, Guest Elrigh said:

First of all I want to say that I appreciate your work and that Icy-Veins is still my first Choice when I search for Rotations and Guides.

I had used the update version of the guide until I had a discussion on reddit. Someone pointed out that Judgement Debuff only affects Holy Power Spenders (now).

Seems like you changed the guide in some points to meet the new effect. But a big part of the Guide does not make sense anymore.

Why should I keep the Debuff up all the time during the fight, if most of my abilitys do not take advantage from it. You still recommend Haste as important Stat but only because of the Judgement Debuff. And in the Rotation you recommend to cast Judgement before Executioner Sentence AND to keep the buff up when Executioner Sentence hits. But why, when Executioner Sentence is not taking advantage of the Debuff?

Wouldn´t it make more sence to try to cast as many Final Verdict/Divine Storm in the time the Judgment Debuff is up instead of casting Judgment and wasting time casting spells which do not take advantage of the Debuff? 

Thank you for the kind words.

I don't know why you think the guide only reflects the Judgment debuff affecting Holy Power spenders "in some points". The debuff already worked that when I wrote the guide essentially from scratch, so I always knew/assumed it worked that way. If you have any concrete examples of where this happens in the guide, please let me know because it shouldn't be the case.

Others replied to this as well, but I feel like you're somehow under some misunderstanding of how the playstyle works. Your spenders deal increased damage when the debuff is up (and Execution Sentence is a spender), so you want to have the debuff up as much as possible and cast as many spenders as possible. It would certainly make sense to try to cast as many Final Verdicts as you can in a Judgment debuff, but you can't do that without also using spells that generate Holy Power and therefore don't benefit from the debuff.

On July 26, 2016 at 0:59 AM, Guest Ezenthor said:

You might want to add something about attempting to use JV when the judgement debuff is up in addition to using it when DP is procced. It's not entirely necessary as you have a lot of other things going on, but it is important to note (I feel) that the damage is increased when judgement is used as it's a holy power spender. I was actually surprised to not read anything about that and had to do my own in game testing to make sure that it was affected by judgement.

I can add a mention of this, sure. Thanks for bringing it up.

58 minutes ago, PatrickHenry said:

Regarding Avenging Wrath use -

Would putting AW on macro'd to Judgement be smart?
Judgement already hits harder than CS, and is buffed by Mastery even moreso. 

It will still last long enough to pull through the whole judgement debuff.  Is there a timing reason its delayed until after Judgment, or perhaps its to tie it into the ExecSent drop? 

I don't know if I really see the value of such a macro. We aren't swarmed with cooldowns and abilities nowadays, so Avenging Wrath is hardly too much to manage. And honestly, I think having the freedom to cast the abilities independently as desired is better than any gains you could have from this macro. But others should feel free to disagree :)

[Guest Elrigh]

I am pretty sure I have read that the Judgement Debuff affects both spenders and builders, but I am unsure now when and where I read it. Maybe this was the case really early beta (I was in the first wave of beta invites, played a little and stopped then).

It does not matter anymore, I choose Final Verdict over Execution Sentence in Tier 1, my rotation looks like this:

Crusader Strike, Blade of Wrath, Crusader Strike, Crusader Strike, Judgement, Final Verdict, Crusader Strike, Final Verdict, Blade of Wrath, Crusader Strike, Final Verdict

With 20% Haste I am able to cast the last Final Verdict just before the Debuff expires.

[Guest BinaryHero]

On 7/30/2016 at 4:52 PM, Guest Elrigh said:

I am pretty sure I have read that the Judgement Debuff affects both spenders and builders, but I am unsure now when and where I read it. Maybe this was the case really early beta (I was in the first wave of beta invites, played a little and stopped then).

It does not matter anymore, I choose Final Verdict over Execution Sentence in Tier 1, my rotation looks like this:

Crusader Strike, Blade of Wrath, Crusader Strike, Crusader Strike, Judgement, Final Verdict, Crusader Strike, Final Verdict, Blade of Wrath, Crusader Strike, Final Verdict

With 20% Haste I am able to cast the last Final Verdict just before the Debuff expires.

Using ES over FV is (theoretically)  a~3-5% dps gain. That being said; I also use FV  because ES is a pain to manage.

[Elrigh 1]

Dear Brothers in Light,

thanks again for your hard work on this guide, I really appreciate your efforts.

Also I´d like to apologize my Ignorance not to consider that this Guide can only be half of a guide, temporary made for the time until we get our Hands on the Ashbringer. Maybe I did think about it when I start to read but totally forgot when I tested this guide with my Retpala.

I was about to write a harsh post on reddit on how it sucks that warriors are now better in passive self healing during the fight then paladins, which - in my humble opinon - is a bad joke because since their first appearance in Warcraft Paladins where known for their healing abilitys (and they are known for that in other Fantasy Games, Books etc.)

But then I remembered what one dev said a long time ago about the Legendarys: That Players should see their abilitys grow stronger during the leveling process of their legendary weapon. So I took a deeper look into the Ashbringers Ability-Tree and realized that some of the stuff I missed most is still there. But not available until we have the Ashbringer and unlocked the abilitys.

I would recommend to mark every Class Guide with a big "TEMPORARY Guide for PRE-PATCH and PRE-LEGENDARY only!". So that no one will forget that this Guide is not forged in Obliterium.

Because that seems to be the case with far to many People which are complaining about their "broken" Class and bad DPS/Healing.

I look forward to see your final Guide for Legion and have no doubts that it will be outstanding and helpfull as always.

May the Light be with you.

Elrigh

Edited August 3, 2016 by Elrigh

[Guest Auggie]

I felt this guide just didn't have a lot of thought placed into it. It just reviewed the talents and ruled out a lot of choices for no apparent reason. For example: blade of wrath is apparently better but it does a third of the initial Danae and has a horrible crit ratting which is where Ret's shine at a minimum of 15%. I just felt the guide was kinda rushed and didn't have a lot of thought.

[PatrickHenry 293]

On 7/29/2016 at 5:44 PM, Vlad said:

[snip]

I don't know if I really see the value of such a macro. We aren't swarmed with cooldowns and abilities nowadays, so Avenging Wrath is hardly too much to manage. And honestly, I think having the freedom to cast the abilities independently as desired is better than any gains you could have from this macro. But others should feel free to disagree :)

Fair enough. 

My main concern was the AW after using Judgement as the guide suggests. 

It seems that Judgement is a pretty heavy hitter, and would make good use of the increased damage that AW provides.  If I can squeeze that in along with ExecSent, it seems a better combination.  Although, I do not have the Simwork to prove it or to compare it to a post-Judgement cast...

...perhaps you could squeeze in another TV and offset it making it worthwhile to wait?

[Farion 23]

On 8/8/2016 at 0:21 PM, Guest Auggie said:

I felt this guide just didn't have a lot of thought placed into it. It just reviewed the talents and ruled out a lot of choices for no apparent reason. For example: blade of wrath is apparently better but it does a third of the initial Danae and has a horrible crit ratting which is where Ret's shine at a minimum of 15%. I just felt the guide was kinda rushed and didn't have a lot of thought.

 

I will bite into this bait post as i dont have any thing to do now.

 

VB damage is phyiscal, hence it will be reduced by the target's armor.

unless you have 50% crit, it wont be reliable.

BoW is holy damage (not reduced by armor) and on short cd

and since you need to spend as much spenders as you can in the RIng+hero/ring phase then bow will easily win out on VB

and it's cd will be even more lower as you will be always aiming for 30%ish haste 

 For more information would recommend you to watch a youtuber name Thete gaming , or join the paladin discord ;

https://discord.gg/0dvRDgpa5xZHFfnD

Cheers.

Sincerely,

Some one who actually plays it.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Farion

[Elrigh 1]

I think the game is totally messed up right now.

Just went to a WOD-Dungeon with a Tankadin. He had ilevel 715, i have 711. He did 10% more Damage than I did. And he was not even fully buffed.

His Skilltree: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#bZa!1121112

I am at 25% Speed, 29% Mastery and 19% Crit with the PVP-Set Bonus.

He had 25% Speed, 21% Mastery and 13% Crit with no Set at all.

 

 

[Guest Token]

Is there something that gives a ret paladin the ability to use a hp spender without consuming hp?  I have been noticing I occasionally can use a move like Justicar's Vengeance several times in a row and can not find what causes it.

[Farion 23]

40 minutes ago, Guest Token said:

Is there something that gives a ret paladin the ability to use a hp spender without consuming hp?  I have been noticing I occasionally can use a move like Justicar's Vengeance several times in a row and can not find what causes it.

Must be using a level 100 talent called divine purpose :v)

[ldmz 0]

is there any mistake in "Retribution Paladin DPS Stat Priority (Legion 7.0.3)"?

1. Basics

The stat priority for Retribution Paladins is as follows:

1. Strength;
2. Haste;
3. Critical Strike;
4. Mastery;
5. Versatility.

2.1. Statistics Priority

Strength ...

Mastery ...

Haste ...

Critical Strike ...

Versatility ...

 

[Guest jacob]

If this guide is showing the rotation for when your Artifact is complete or at least once you are half way through and have Echo of the Highlord then Justicar's Vengeance should not be part of the rotation since it is beat in damage by Templar's Verdict at that point.

[Vlad 411]

15 hours ago, Guest jacob said:

If this guide is showing the rotation for when your Artifact is complete or at least once you are half way through and have Echo of the Highlord then Justicar's Vengeance should not be part of the rotation since it is beat in damage by Templar's Verdict at that point.

That's a good point, I was pretty sure I had added a mention or two about that... guess not. Will do it now. Thanks for the feedback!

[Guest Russ]

Why use judgment before execution sentence in your rotation if Judgment buff ends at 6 seconds and execution hits on the 7th second?

[Farion 23]

19 hours ago, Guest Russ said:

Why use judgment before execution sentence in your rotation if Judgment buff ends at 6 seconds and execution hits on the 7th second?

judgement debuff lasts 8 seconds :p

[Guest Zajara]

Would just like to point out that in the Cooldown Usage section, The Shield of Vengeance explanation states that when the absorption shield breaks it deals damage divided between allies, instead it should read that it divides the damage between all enemies within 8 yards. 

[Vlad 411]

9 hours ago, Guest Zajara said:

Would just like to point out that in the Cooldown Usage section, The Shield of Vengeance explanation states that when the absorption shield breaks it deals damage divided between allies, instead it should read that it divides the damage between all enemies within 8 yards. 

Thank you very much for pointing this out! I'm updating the guide right now.

[Guest Fist of Justice]

For Tier 3 talents, the guide seems to neglect to mention that Fist of Justice causes Justicar's Vengeance to do 100% increased damage against stunned enemies.  This seems pretty strong, especially when combined with Divine Purpose procs where you can sometimes get 2-3 Justicar hits in during the stun.  I'm not quite sure, but it seems like during normal rotation the effective CD of Hammer of Justice drops to about 30 seconds with this talent.

With that in mind, is Fist of Justice really still not better than Blinding Light (a ~60k AOE with 90s CD)?  Ignoring the CC effect, against 4 mobs Blinding Light might do 240k Holy damage every 90 seconds, while a stunned Justicar hit will do 160k additional extra damage to a single target every 30 seconds, so 480k over 90 seconds, assuming you can get Hammer of Justice down to a 30s effective CD.  Or am I missing something?

Thanks for the guides.

[Farion 23]

On 9/5/2016 at 8:12 AM, Guest Fist of Justice said:

For Tier 3 talents, the guide seems to neglect to mention that Fist of Justice causes Justicar's Vengeance to do 100% increased damage against stunned enemies.  This seems pretty strong, especially when combined with Divine Purpose procs where you can sometimes get 2-3 Justicar hits in during the stun.  I'm not quite sure, but it seems like during normal rotation the effective CD of Hammer of Justice drops to about 30 seconds with this talent.

With that in mind, is Fist of Justice really still not better than Blinding Light (a ~60k AOE with 90s CD)?  Ignoring the CC effect, against 4 mobs Blinding Light might do 240k Holy damage every 90 seconds, while a stunned Justicar hit will do 160k additional extra damage to a single target every 30 seconds, so 480k over 90 seconds, assuming you can get Hammer of Justice down to a 30s effective CD.  Or am I missing something?

Thanks for the guides.

Good day to you Mr FoJ

In mythic dungeons i recommend taking blinding light cause apart that it's an aoe stun which is more useful than a single one it deals as much or even more damage than DS (680k+ on 4+ targets for my case) keep in mind that not every mob is stunable to be valuable , I also recommend taking holy wrath over D.P as its extremely good in cleaning packs out.

how ever on raid progression crusade easily wins out on dp. 

Dp is basically a leveling up talent /heroic dungs at best atm :P

although if stuff changed i will surely update it.

[Guest Guest Velarien]

Is it possbile to add a string for pawn in the stats-section?

Items like rings and neck are difficult to swap without any values for the individuel stats.

Thank you for the guide. Keep up the good work!

 

[Valks 2,373]

21 hours ago, Guest Guest Velarien said:

Is it possbile to add a string for pawn in the stats-section?

Items like rings and neck are difficult to swap without any values for the individuel stats.

Thank you for the guide. Keep up the good work!

 

We'll see what we can do for pawn strings. Generally we stay away from them since they simply take so much time to maintain and keep up to date at the start of an expansion, especially for every spec.

[Guest Sareth]

So am i supposed to reset the artifact traits when i can go the long way to ashes instantly? (rank 18 + 24000 AP to reset)