Frost Death Knight 7.3

[Guest Hvorgandr]

I am a DK, and I started to use this build right after I dropped koltira's newfound will from Ursoc NM. 

 

LİSTEN, this build exclusively is depended on the legendaries you have. If you have this belt, and seal of necrofantasia, you are good to go. Either SoN or Wrist which increases your frost damig is okay. But belt is obligatory. Otherwise, this build shreks you down. 

It is also required that a single target focus, you'll anger your guild masters because of not involving in add fights. You need to nut all your runes to single target to regenerate RP. When it ends properly (proper breath for me durates around 45 seconds) you can rush on adds. 

What I say, this build is so bound to the SoN, TWB and KNFW legendaries. 

[Guest Leaf]

On 2/16/2017 at 3:51 AM, Guest Hvorgandr said:

I am a DK, and I started to use this build right after I dropped koltira's newfound will from Ursoc NM. 

 

LİSTEN, this build exclusively is depended on the legendaries you have. If you have this belt, and seal of necrofantasia, you are good to go. Either SoN or Wrist which increases your frost damig is okay. But belt is obligatory. Otherwise, this build shreks you down. 

It is also required that a single target focus, you'll anger your guild masters because of not involving in add fights. You need to nut all your runes to single target to regenerate RP. When it ends properly (proper breath for me durates around 45 seconds) you can rush on adds. 

What I say, this build is so bound to the SoN, TWB and KNFW legendaries. 

Also, with 4 set NH gear, you'll probably switch from horn to freezing fog. I have necro, and I have tried out this build, but really don't enjoy it. It can be better in some situations, but in high switching/movement bosses it's incredibly unreliable. I have been running Obliteration ( on most bosses) and see the other DKs mess up once and boom they are at the bottom now, with the reliable obliteration at top. It's a high risk/high reward build. Hopefully blizz makes obliteration comparable again, but seeing those t20 set bonuses I highly doubt it.

[Guest Cauthon]

For BoS build , are relics with overpowered still BiS ? If u have PoEbon Matyr would be better to stacks telics with HB dmg increase ?

[Guest Lynchforlich]

Can someone please help me. i don't understand this at all. i have done everything and tried my hardest to get high dps. my guild leader wants 300k or more for raids and i am struggling to even maintain 280k. i have the fallen crusader ruin on one and razorice on another. i done sindragosa build and i done machine gun along with obliteration.  all dont seem to help can a pro help me out and tell me what i am doing wrong my stats are 22% crit, 15% haste, 25% mastery, 10% vit. again i need serious help i want to be able to make this toon raid worthy. i am trying my best to make it will all i got and do single target, but to me it seems possible and it maybe i am messing something up i would like a pros input on this to see if they can help in any way. item lvl 867. was 873 but i have traded gear for better haste and gave up some crit and mastery for haste. this is my last hope is getting someone that has seen this in the past or knows how to help me improve. i want to raid but i keep losing confidence that it is worthy. and i know it can raid considering that the top raid players in wow at least have 1 frost on the team.

[Guest Tatuunka]

6 hours ago, Guest Lynchforlich said:

Can someone please help me. i don't understand this at all. i have done everything and tried my hardest to get high dps. my guild leader wants 300k or more for raids and i am struggling to even maintain 280k. i have the fallen crusader ruin on one and razorice on another. i done sindragosa build and i done machine gun along with obliteration.  all dont seem to help can a pro help me out and tell me what i am doing wrong my stats are 22% crit, 15% haste, 25% mastery, 10% vit. again i need serious help i want to be able to make this toon raid worthy. i am trying my best to make it will all i got and do single target, but to me it seems possible and it maybe i am messing something up i would like a pros input on this to see if they can help in any way. item lvl 867. was 873 but i have traded gear for better haste and gave up some crit and mastery for haste. this is my last hope is getting someone that has seen this in the past or knows how to help me improve. i want to raid but i keep losing confidence that it is worthy. and i know it can raid considering that the top raid players in wow at least have 1 frost on the team.

It would be helpful to post your armory link to get better insight. First of all you lack haste, >20% is the way to go, 10 % versatility on the other hand seems quite much ? i cant believe that is realistic. Then it would be helpful to get a warcraft log to look what went wrong ( for example, how long can you keep BoS up ? ) The gear only doenst help much to tell what is wrong with your dps. If you cant play your rotation, the best gear wont help.

MfG

Tatuunka - Blackmoore

[Guest Wasnt me]

Could someone tell me how far the DPS differences between the sindragosa and machine gun are?

[demonardvark 556]

2 minutes ago, Guest Wasnt me said:

Could someone tell me how far the DPS differences between the sindragosa and machine gun are?

substantial, even subpar usage of BOS will put you far ahead of any machine gun variant

[Esploratore 1]

6 hours ago, Guest Wasnt me said:

Could someone tell me how far the DPS differences between the sindragosa and machine gun are?

Also to add to what demonardvark said, I've been using the build which is not on this guide any more for a while (obliteration) and on a dummy I couldn't get past 400k, like, it was a challenge to keep slightly above it on a 5 min test, while even with suboptimal stat prio (too much versatility) for breath build I was able to do 470k with horn of winter and 480k with howling blast improving talent, and this is not even using gathering storm cause I'm feeling I still need runic attenuation to get a good enough uptime, so there could still be margin.

[Yinj 0]

Thanks for the Guides! Quick Question. How long can you Guys keep your BoS up? 

[NeoCG 2]

On 26.3.2017 at 8:55 AM, Yinj said:

Thanks for the Guides! Quick Question. How long can you Guys keep your BoS up? 

I got 4pc, COF and the Ring and play with Freezing Fog so I got my HRW up for every Breath and my average time is about 50-55 seconds. If there is Lust/Hero or I can use both charges it goes up to maybe 75 seconds on GulDan probably even longer because of the extrabutton. With that said, on many Bosses you need to move before that so I often try to press as many Obliterates/HB in it as I can before moving... 

 

Quote

 and this is not even using gathering storm cause I'm feeling I still need runic attenuationto get a good enough uptime, so there could still be margin.

 Like this

(sorry for the clunky edit ^^)

 

You should not do that ever. Gathering Storm does so much damage it is not worth the maybe 5 seconds of BOS you get. On fights with more than 1 target you deal something like 15% of your total damage with Remoresless Winter and it has ~65-70% uptime. You also deal nearly no AOE damage when BOS is not up. I Would rather play with Horn of Winter if you are concerned about your uptime (which you probably shouldn't) and don't have the Legendary Head.

 

Quick question before the patch drops tomorrow. Do you guys have any Idea which traits I should get first? The ones for Obliterate, HB and Runic Emp. seem to be the best ones for the beginning but what is your opinion?

Edited March 27, 2017 by NeoCG

[Esploratore 1]

10 hours ago, NeoCG said:

I got 4pc, COF and the Ring and play with Freezing Fog so I got my HRW up for every Breath and my average time is about 50-55 seconds. If there is Lust/Hero or I can use both charges it goes up to maybe 75 seconds on GulDan probably even longer because of the extrabutton. With that said, on many Bosses you need to move before that so I often try to press as many Obliterates/HB in it as I can before moving... 

 

(sorry for the clunky edit ^^)

 

You should not do that ever. Gathering Storm does so much damage it is not worth the maybe 5 seconds of BOS you get. On fights with more than 1 target you deal something like 15% of your total damage with Remoresless Winter and it has ~65-70% uptime. You also deal nearly no AOE damage when BOS is not up. I Would rather play with Horn of Winter if you are concerned about your uptime (which you probably shouldn't) and don't have the Legendary Head.

 

Quick question before the patch drops tomorrow. Do you guys have any Idea which traits I should get first? The ones for Obliterate, HB and Runic Emp. seem to be the best ones for the beginning but what is your opinion?

Thanks, but I just did a test and can't seem to do more than with attenuation using gathering storm, and yes, I use horn of winter, else breath lasts too little, I can do like almost 1 min with 4 set but no good legendaries for breath, got the helm and the cloak. Remorseless did about 7% with gathering storm for me, that's far less than for you.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Esploratore

[Esploratore 1]

Ah, and another thing: I lost 10k dps due to replacing a relic 865 (48 item levels) that increases obli crit damage by 6% with an 880 (52 item levels) increasing remorseless by 5%, and well, evidently it's not a good trait swap to make, but on this guide there was written that you could go with item level in such cases, instead apparently not, and can't restore the old one since it got overwritten.

[Valks 2,373]

12 hours ago, NeoCG said:

Quick question before the patch drops tomorrow. Do you guys have any Idea which traits I should get first? The ones for Obliterate, HB and Runic Emp. seem to be the best ones for the beginning but what is your opinion?

Thanks for helping to answer those questions - as for your own, it will all be updated shortly.

[Valks 2,373]

1 hour ago, Esploratore said:

Thanks, but I just did a test and can't seem to do more than with attenuation using gathering storm, and yes, I use horn of winter, else breath lasts too little, I can do like almost 1 min with 4 set but no good legendaries for breath, got the helm and the cloak. Remorseless did about 7% with gathering storm for me, that's far less than for you.

Logs generally help a lot with these comparisons, especially if you are testing things yourself!

[Valks 2,373]

51 minutes ago, Esploratore said:

Ah, and another thing: I lost 10k dps due to replacing a relic 865 (48 item levels) that increases obli crit damage by 6% with an 880 (52 item levels) increasing remorseless by 5%, and well, evidently it's not a good trait swap to make, but on this guide there was written that you could go with item level in such cases, instead apparently not, and can't restore the old one since it got overwritten.

You were saying that you feel your Remorseless Winter is doing far less %-damage compared to another user, right? Could this be some sort of playstyle issue that means, due to your lack of RW/incorrect use of it, you are then not getting the benefit of the relic that would then bring your DPS up? 

Just a thought!

[Valks 2,373]

We are currently in the process of updating our guides in preparation for the release of 7.2 - please understand that we will not be answering questions in this section about "What is better for 7.2?" prior to the patch release, since all the information will be available when the patch goes live. Please be patient and thanks for waiting!

[solitha 84]

Hey guys... On the Machine Gun build. The talent selection shows Runic Attenuation and Obliteration for single target/light cleaving. It looks like the rotation, though, doesn't address this version. I mean, that leaves you only 3 buttons to push, and none very often. Is something missing?

[Valks 2,373]

14 minutes ago, solitha said:

Hey guys... On the Machine Gun build. The talent selection shows Runic Attenuation and Obliteration for single target/light cleaving. It looks like the rotation, though, doesn't address this version. I mean, that leaves you only 3 buttons to push, and none very often. Is something missing?

I believe Obliterate is missing - will get this checked/updated.

[NeoCG 2]

18 hours ago, Esploratore said:

Thanks, but I just did a test and can't seem to do more than with attenuation using gathering storm, and yes, I use horn of winter, else breath lasts too little, I can do like almost 1 min with 4 set but no good legendaries for breath, got the helm and the cloak. Remorseless did about 7% with gathering storm for me, that's far less than for you.

If you are using the Helm and have 4pc you should definitely play with Gathering Storm and Freezing Fog as it synergizes so good with the effect. You do 20% (was 40%) more damage with Howling Blast while Remorseless Winter is on the enemy. With Gathering Storm you have I guess something like double the uptime on RW and do another 30% extra damage with HW.

Also you don't need to keep up your Breath for 60 seconds in fact the first 20 seconds while having PoF active are the most valuable. Mine often only last for 50 seconds and my damage is above average comparing with warcraftlogs.

Maybe you need to change something about your playstyle? I consider RW as kind of a mini BOS. Shortly before it comes off cooldown you stack up to 4 runes then RW and funnel all your runes+HB proccs into your Gathering Storm Stacks while not wasting runic power. In general try not to waste any resources: use all your proccs, don't overcap on runic power and never have more then 3-4 runes up. (While you have HRW up you can spam Obliterate/HB freely though as long as you got 6 Runes at the end of the effect). 

You should maybe get a Weakaura for BOS and something to keep track of your Gathering Storm Counter. That helped me a lot.

 

 

@Blainie thank you, was not expecting that the update would come that fast =)

[NeoCG 2]

18 hours ago, Esploratore said:

Ah, and another thing: I lost 10k dps due to replacing a relic 865 (48 item levels) that increases obli crit damage by 6% with an 880 (52 item levels) increasing remorseless by 5%, and well, evidently it's not a good trait swap to make, but on this guide there was written that you could go with item level in such cases, instead apparently not, and can't restore the old one since it got overwritten.

The problem is, again, you are not using Gathering Storm on which case the assumptions are made.

I compared this to my own logs. 

The only case where this could be worse is on a ST Boss where you do maybe 20% of your damage with Obliterate and 10% with RW. This is the worst case tough for the RW-damage. I got ~27% Crit and 50% of my Obliterates crit.

-> 10% of your damage is Obliterate Crits and 10% is RW. This is not considering you would do way more damage with everything when having 4 itemlevels more. So in the worst case possible on a ST-Boss these could be the same damagewise. All of that using Gathering Storm.

 

[Valks 2,373]

23 hours ago, NeoCG said:

thank you, was not expecting that the update would come that fast =)

Glad to be of service :) Thanks for helping to answer those questions too!

[Esploratore 1]

To those who answered, was my bad that I didn't report back later on cause I did more tests and actually I figured that especially since I swapped an obli crit damage relic for a remorseless one I should really be focusing more on using remorseless winter (and ofc on gathering storm talent), so managed to do a bit more (around 10% with remorseless) and it actually ended up doing more damage, all of this was with horn of winter however cause again I was concerned with breath uptime.

Don't really think I can keep it up even 50 seconds without horn, and especially with the helm being nerfed I think I have to keep using horn.

[Esploratore 1]

I also have a stat problem, as in I switched an 870 neck for 905, old one had crit mostly and lower amount of haste, new one has mostly haste and low amount of crit, I was at 20-21% haste and 28% crit, now 24% haste and 26% crit, I know that with breath crit is more important but I don't seem to be able to swap anything else to reduce haste and increase crit atm, is it bad to have 24% when cap is 20?

[Draylock 3]

Have you considered going for legendary legs with Thronebreaker? According to my calculations, even after the nerf we'll be able to have SF on a 80-second cooldown, which would make it pretty strong on cleave/aoe fights and decent on single target fights imo. 

[NeoCG 2]

17 hours ago, Esploratore said:

I also have a stat problem, as in I switched an 870 neck for 905, old one had crit mostly and lower amount of haste, new one has mostly haste and low amount of crit, I was at 20-21% haste and 28% crit, now 24% haste and 26% crit, I know that with breath crit is more important but I don't seem to be able to swap anything else to reduce haste and increase crit atm, is it bad to have 24% when cap is 20?

I would always go for itemlevel. The Statpriority is so close together, IMO it is only worth taking Crit/Haste over anything else if you are really close to the cap. Otherwise these Caps are not that important from what I have experienced on my DK. Also most top DKs prioritise Mastery over Crit after reaching the Caps. Mastery does a lot if there is more than one target.

 

14 hours ago, Draylock said:

Have you considered going for legendary legs with Thronebreaker? According to my calculations, even after the nerf we'll be able to have SF on a 80-second cooldown, which would make it pretty strong on cleave/aoe fights and decent on single target fights imo. 

The Legendary-Legs do not buff Thronebreak or synergize at all, since the CD-Reduction is a fix number and does not increase Cindys damage. I think if anything the legs are even weaker because of Thronebreak since you have Cindy for more burst situations per fight anyways?