Frost Death Knight 7.3

[Esploratore 1]

11 hours ago, NeoCG said:

I would always go for itemlevel. The Statpriority is so close together, IMO it is only worth taking Crit/Haste over anything else if you are really close to the cap. Otherwise these Caps are not that important from what I have experienced on my DK. Also most top DKs prioritise Mastery over Crit after reaching the Caps. Mastery does a lot if there is more than one target.

 

 

Ah, ok, thanks, if anything with this high amount of haste (23,5% and 26,5% crit atm) I finally swapped to freezing fog talent since it's easier to keep breath up, will however look into getting more useful stats when I can.

[Draylock 3]

12 hours ago, NeoCG said:

The Legendary-Legs do not buff Thronebreak or synergize at all, since the CD-Reduction is a fix number and does not increase Cindys damage. I think if anything the legs are even weaker because of Thronebreak since you have Cindy for more burst situations per fight anyways?

On that we disagree. Actually, Thronebreaker should be working with Runic Chills and both of them combined do work better with legs. For example, lets assume that we get a reduction of 100 seconds for a 5-minute fight. Without the legs you would still be able to do SF twice at best, at the very start and at the last moment or after 200 seconds. Basically, you would only see a difference on a 400 sec+ fight. With the legs, however, you'd be able to do an SF every ~1.7 minutes, giving you an extra SF. And by my calculations, in "real world" it will be more like 1.3 minutes of CD on SF with the legs.

[Gormnir 0]

regarding gems. wouldn't it better too just go pure strength gems? should be able too get enough crit/haste/vers from gear

[NeoCG 2]

13 hours ago, Draylock said:

On that we disagree. Actually, Thronebreaker should be working with Runic Chills and both of them combined do work better with legs. For example, lets assume that we get a reduction of 100 seconds for a 5-minute fight. Without the legs you would still be able to do SF twice at best, at the very start and at the last moment or after 200 seconds. Basically, you would only see a difference on a 400 sec+ fight. With the legs, however, you'd be able to do an SF every ~1.7 minutes, giving you an extra SF. And by my calculations, in "real world" it will be more like 1.3 minutes of CD on SF with the legs.

Hm maybe you are right, if the fight has a perfect length. Still I think it would be more of a niche pick... the other 4 Toplegendaries (Ring, Head, Wrist, Waist) are going to be ahead still for most encounters.

7 hours ago, Gormnir said:

regarding gems. wouldn't it better too just go pure strength gems? should be able too get enough crit/haste/vers from gear

You can only equip one Strength gem at once

[Gormnir 0]

Oh i see, i did not know that thanks 

[Draylock 3]

17 hours ago, NeoCG said:

Hm maybe you are right, if the fight has a perfect length. Still I think it would be more of a niche pick... the other 4 Toplegendaries (Ring, Head, Wrist, Waist) are going to be ahead still for most encounters.

It seems your point has been mathematically proven right: http://imgur.com/a/jhpx0

As stated, it uses 52 points in the weapon (Concordance at 1 point) and the usual talent build but with Frozen Pulse and T19 equipped. And with T20 the value of the ring is only gonna increase. Legs are not bad at all in terms of dps but really are a niche pick in case you need more controlled aoe burst.

[Gormnir 0]

^{in regards too using frost breath build in mythic + would you reccomend having 4 tier 19 pieces for that? because i have necrofantasia but it still feels like machinegun does way better on mythic + that breath build.. maybe if i had the tier 19 set pieces} 

[Esploratore 1]

What do you think about this choice? I had the legendary helm and cloak (well, can still switch back if it's a bad change what I did), and had about 23% haste and 26% crit; also had the 4x tier, and I got the seal of necrofantasia (2 charges of BOS and reduced cd from it) as 3rd legendary, so I swapped an 880 haste mastery ring for that, and got back an old 875 cloak  (vers mastery) in place of legendary cloak, this lets me gain 2.082 crit, 278 versa and lose 1.736 haste, 299 mastery and 575 strength because obviously a legendary cloak gives 1.700 str, a legendary ring gives 0, so stat wise I'm losing out of this even though I'm gaining 1 item level cause this way I was at 5 set items, so I could switch some 895 shoulders (non tier) instead of the 875 tier I had.

Keeping in mind the cloak doesn't give dps improvements generally aside from better AMS soaking, and also that I'm getting rid of haste which was 3% over cap doing this should I be ok with this change, or is the fact I lose a bit of stats, 250 lost if I give all the same value, a signal that it's not a good trade?

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Esploratore

[Esploratore 1]

Since no answer I decided to test on my dummy friend and went from 495k over a 5 min duration to 575k with the legendary cloak - ring swap mentioned above, so despite losing a little bit of stats (which are actually as low amount as a legion augment rune) the utility from the ring to keep breath up more easily far outweights it (and also maybe the fact some of the stats I dropped were an excessive amount of haste which now is back at 20% and I got more crit instead), so basically the ring alone made around a 16% dps difference sustained single target!

[Valks 2,373]

On 4/9/2017 at 6:08 AM, Gormnir said:

^{in regards too using frost breath build in mythic + would you reccomend having 4 tier 19 pieces for that? because i have necrofantasia but it still feels like machinegun does way better on mythic + that breath build.. maybe if i had the tier 19 set pieces} 

You can, yes, but it's unlikely you will surpass the MG build.

[Valks 2,373]

12 hours ago, Esploratore said:

 the ring alone made around a 16% dps difference sustained single target!

Just as expected. With BoS, the ring is insanely powerful. We do recommend it for the BoS build:

Quote

 Seal of Necrofantasia is another decent legendary. If you are using  Breath of Sindragosa as your tier 7 talent, then this legendary is actually very strong.

Sorry that I didn't get to your comment in time, but seems you figured it out anyway.

[Gormnir 0]

the trinket part of the best in slot section is a bit misleading  as you dont really say what build you used too test this because i strongly think that for breath of sindragosa a lot of the good ones are listed kinda low on this list besides eye of command and talisman. Just wondering if your guide specially about trinket could list what sort of trinkets function really well with breathe build or machine gun. I understand that it can be hard too make a guide on bis gear for DK.. but when it comes too trinkets i think its somewhat clear. it would be lovely if the DK guide could get some updates in atleast the trinket department rather than just ''here is how much damage this one gives'' even tho just flat out damage isent always better, for breath of sindragosa id take convergence over horn any day

[Valks 2,373]

10 hours ago, Gormnir said:

the trinket part of the best in slot section is a bit misleading

I'll pass all of this on and see if we can get the new things included/updated etc. Sorry for the trouble!

[Draylock 3]

1 hour ago, Blainie said:

I'll pass all of this on and see if we can get the new things included/updated etc. Sorry for the trouble!

This might be useful - Frost BoS Graph tab

[Valks 2,373]

5 minutes ago, Draylock said:

This might be useful - Frost BoS Graph tab

Stuff like this always helps, of course! :) Thanks for linking!

[Guest Khades]

Why was the Machine Gun playstyle removed from the guide? I mostly do Mythic+ and my damage improved drastically once I switched to it.

[Guest Deathnight]

The machine gun was dropped!?!?!! Oh man. You got 2 swords but you don't use it for doing damage now huh.. If only blizzard could do something about frost strike...

[demonardvark 556]

I would imagine machinegun was dropped in favor of pushing the guide towards focusing on raiding. Currently from a raid viewpoint BOS is basically the only competitive option for frost at the moment. Even then with COF BOS is seeing a lot of usage in denser populated mythic + dungeons. However, I do agree that in general machinegun is more friendly in most mythic plus scenarios and is more approachable ie RA for OBRA on less clustered dungeons, Frosctscythe spam on more clustered dungeons. BOS while being used can be quite difficult to maintain even with top gear, just mechanically a bit demanding in dungeons. So, pure raid perspective is my best guess. 

[NeoCG 2]

The BOS-build is also better in M+ in most cases imo. While the machinegun build does do high damage on huge pulls BOS is way more versatile. You do great AOE and cleave with HB and RW and also have very high boss damage with BOS. The machine gun does not utilise 4pc, nor your HB relics. Also all good DPS legendaries for M+ besides the legs fervor the BOS Style (Head, SoN, Toravons, Koltiras) and also you have more stuns via longer RW uptimes. So there are very little cases where machine gun could actually outperform BOS also since in most higher M+ you can't really pull too many mobs at once.

[Guest Deathnight]

Well yeah. Just the fact that BoS is now the norm for frost is kinda one-sided... Better luck next patch then. 

[demonardvark 556]

On 4/26/2017 at 5:06 AM, NeoCG said:

The BOS-build is also better in M+ in most cases imo. While the machinegun build does do high damage on huge pulls BOS is way more versatile. You do great AOE and cleave with HB and RW and also have very high boss damage with BOS. The machine gun does not utilise 4pc, nor your HB relics. Also all good DPS legendaries for M+ besides the legs fervor the BOS Style (Head, SoN, Toravons, Koltiras) and also you have more stuns via longer RW uptimes. So there are very little cases where machine gun could actually outperform BOS also since in most higher M+ you can't really pull too many mobs at once.

excellent points, plus once you get above I think its +8 or 9 is when you need to have stupid dps for even trash mobs so it makes sense to favor the absolute max dps. Oh that's another perspective to add as well, typically things in the guides here are aimed at absolute max end game content/builds. So while at lower mythic plus many may find OBRAmachingun friendly for competitive BOS is dominant. So, since BOS is end game everything it was favored in the hard guide. 

2 hours ago, Guest Deathnight said:

Well yeah. Just the fact that BoS is now the norm for frost is kinda one-sided... Better luck next patch then. 

I think next expansion sadly. With the legendary items they would have to hard nerf BOS bad to make it non competitive/dominant playstyle. Now granted it would be nice to buff / rework other talents to give us options, but I don't see it happening. 

[Valks 2,373]

Just wanted to stop by and give a small update on the BoS/MG discussion. The rotation and points were removed because, as demon said correctly, it is now somewhat sub-optimal compared to BoS in most situations. Sorry to those of you that did enjoy the build, but you can always keep up discussion about it on the forums - our DK moderators are always there to help! 

[Guest Angry Frost DK]

What did you done with the Stat Priority Guide? At first you delete all Machine Gun guide (dont know why, it wasnt a problem) and than you also delete or change without any reason the stats of the frost dk. Why you need first 25% crit and 20% haste and now just 20% crit and this is all? their is no change in the patchnotes so pls backup the guide or show us the reason

[NeoCG 2]

On 27.4.2017 at 0:48 PM, Guest Deathnight said:

Well yeah. Just the fact that BoS is now the norm for frost is kinda one-sided... Better luck next patch then. 

Though to be fair BOS is far less "one-sided" imo then the MG-build since you would really only press Obliterate/Frostscythe and keep Icy Talons up... not really too deep of a build. Sure it would be nice to have two competetive "speccs" just for Frost but let's be honest - what class does have that? And you can switch to Unholy if you don't like BOS since it is pretty easy to get 2 legendaries now.

[Valks 2,373]

3 hours ago, Guest Angry Frost DK said:

What did you done with the Stat Priority Guide? 

Hey there! The stat priority was changed after further sim testing being conducted :) It showed that instead this new stat setup would perform better than our previous suggestion. 

3 hours ago, Guest Angry Frost DK said:

(dont know why, it wasnt a problem)

We removed the MG stuff simply because it's not worth keeping in regards to raiding. BoS is just better in pretty much every scenario in a raid. 

3 hours ago, Guest Angry Frost DK said:

their is no change in the patchnotes so pls backup the guide or show us the reason

This was a mistake when we updated the guide - we didn't include the further update in the changelog. It will be added ASAP :)