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Protection Warrior 7.3

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Guest Andersonn

Since the Pre-Expansion Patch, I've dealt much more DPS as a Protection Warrior Tank. Before, my burst was around 33k DPS. Now, I hit 44k. My normal DPS has also increased a bit. My ilvl is 729, where it mainly consists of HFC HC and Mythic Dungeon gear. Clearly not the best gear, but I've managed in raids. Other tanks and myself have had pretty much the same aggro. Did Tyrant the other day with a fully HFC Mythic geared Protection Paladin, we had the same aggro throughout the fight. 

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As I understand this guide is for lvl 100 raiding purpose.

Would you still see haste as #1 stat at lvl 110?

Im asking since every artifact has bis-stats on them for the respective specialization and in case of warrior it has crit mastery.

Especially when using the Ultimatum talent the procs of free Focus Rage in combination with Vengeance seem to at least be on par with a haste-focused spec.

Plus Heavy Repercussion can stretch Shieldblock to an incredible uptime.

In light of my talent choice, the feeling that I got in beta testing is, that haste is of course a very strong stat, but is outweighed by crit in this special build.

(I have no solid numbers to prove my feeling, but would like to hear your thoughts on that)

 

 

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You my friend are experiencing, the results of a bad co-tank, "Tanking" and healing in Raids is a mental construct that exceeds the five man mentality. I personally haven't had a good co-tank since WotLK. your present issue is resolved by communication. "Hey Jimmy, are you spamming threat on me, as Omen has us grossly ahead of the next dps? Tanking and Healing in your raid should revolve around a large amount of in game communication. You shouldn't be surprised when the co tank and healers use their cool downs and they in turn shouldn't be surprised when you are using yours, raiding is a team activity. We often allow the lead healer determine what each boss sequence will flow in cool down usage. Minus the rng and the occasional dc or irl issue, the measure of your raid can be determined from how far off the mark your plan is followed. If you don't or have never experienced this effect, you are either casually raiding, or you are in what I term, an enhanced pug raid.  Might be time to think about talking more among your core about enhancing the team's mindset, or moving onward.

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Guest Acorath

A simple macro: If the Vengeance talent is selected, then cast Focused Rage before Ignore Pain, otherwise just cast Ignore Pain...
 

#showtooltip Ignore Pain
/cast [talent:6/1] Focused Rage;
/cast Ignore Pain;

The first time you hit the macro you'll want to have at least 40 rage, but should typically wait until you have 60 rage for the full effect of Ignore Pain, just like normal. After that, as long as you continue use it within 15 second increments (before Vengeance: Focused Rage falls off), it will consume a maximum of 45 rage per use.

Note: If you setup a Weak Aura or a Tell Me When event, make sure to watch the Vengeance: Focused Rage buff, not Ignore Pain.

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Guest Kule

@Anderson You can not compete with geared paladin or dk in prepatch over threat. Sry but you are not providing all the facts, either is your co-tank undergeared or doesnt know what to do. Or you had haste/mastery gear in WoD, witch now, are your bis stats, so congratz^^ and who knows... Cause for me its vice-verse, i had 45-55k dps now im happy to have 35k.

I had full crit/mastery, and with wise advice i start changing to haste/mastery, and its a little bit better. Idk wth is going on. Is it my threat or paladins or md..but smt is not right there. BUT what can you do is to call for md, so same number of md on both tanks on start and on swap,co-tank should, slow dps for a few seconds..and threat is easier to manage.

 

@Acorath Add Ultimatum talent and your opening is much more easier..can be used thru the fight, especially in Legion with artifact
 

Spoiler

 

#showtooltip

/cast Battle Cry

/cast Shield Slam

/cast Focused Rage

/cast Ignore Pain

 

So Intervene once and charge on pull, use macro and you will have full value of Ignore Pain in 1st second, you can add Shield Block with charge.

Battle Cry, or that macro, can be used on swap and taunts to generate more threat...God knows we need it atm -.-

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Guest AnonJohn

I didn't see anything so how much Haste, Mastery, Versatility, Critical Strike should I be shooting for? How much is too much?

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Guest Ves

Regarding Never Surrender vs Indomitable, 

Not sure if intended or a bug.  But currently with Never Surrender it looks like the cap for ignore pain is 100% higher in general.  It will still give bigger chunks based on missing health as stated.  Even at 100% hp I can stack it to 934k vs 584k with Indomitable.  

Any idea if this is intended? If so it seems to me that Never Surrender would be much better for progression than the others.

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Guest Shieldarm

I have another comment to put in about Warbringer, that is unfortunately not that good news.

 

I don't know HOW heavily it's bugged, but it very definitely is. The range on the aoe form Warbringer is FAAAAR larger than the intended 5 yards. I was having it pull mobs from up to about 20 yards away. As well, it appears that my earlier thought on it being free damage doesn't quite work.

 

Based on these logs taken last night, Warbringer only applies damage IF it stuns. this leaves bosses completely immune to its damage. Combined with the massive range on it, causing pulls (it took us a long time to figure out why Mythic Council kept pulling the other night, before I figured out it was my Warbringer) when you don't want them, and the fact it does 0 damage, I personally can't advise taking it unless the stun it provides is useful to do twice, like on the trash before Tyrant, with the Unholy Aegis.

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Guest Wonderdog
On 7/31/2016 at 2:54 AM, Guest Ves said:

Regarding Never Surrender vs Indomitable, 

Not sure if intended or a bug.  But currently with Never Surrender it looks like the cap for ignore pain is 100% higher in general.  It will still give bigger chunks based on missing health as stated.  Even at 100% hp I can stack it to 934k vs 584k with Indomitable.  

Any idea if this is intended? If so it seems to me that Never Surrender would be much better for progression than the others.

I've noticed the same behavior. I suspect if you are low geared or rage starved then Indominable will be more viable (less chance to be one shot if Ignore Pain falls off?) - but if you have enough HP without it and are taking lots of hits then Never Surrender will be waaaaay better due to the size and double stackability..

PS - my tests (garrison + Warspear dummies) showed the Ignore Pain shield maxed out at 105% of HP with Indominable or Best Served Cold, and 210% of HP with Never Surrender

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Guest Wonderdog

Actually, might have found a bug...

If I have vengeance (lvl 90 talent) selected, I can't stack my IP's anymore. The duration renews, but the extra value is not added to the shield.

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Quote

As I understand this guide is for lvl 100 raiding purpose.

Would you still see haste as #1 stat at lvl 110?

Im asking since every artifact has bis-stats on them for the respective specialization and in case of warrior it has crit mastery.

Especially when using the Ultimatum talent the procs of free Focus Rage in combination with Vengeance seem to at least be on par with a haste-focused spec.

Plus Heavy Repercussion can stretch Shieldblock to an incredible uptime.

In light of my talent choice, the feeling that I got in beta testing is, that haste is of course a very strong stat, but is outweighed by crit in this special build.

(I have no solid numbers to prove my feeling, but would like to hear your thoughts on that)

I'm looking for simcrafts regarding this, and it should be updated in the Legion guide!

 

Quote

I didn't see anything so how much Haste, Mastery, Versatility, Critical Strike should I be shooting for? How much is too much?

Same here, waiting for safe sources regarding this.

 

Quote

Regarding Never Surrender vs Indomitable, 

Not sure if intended or a bug.  But currently with Never Surrender it looks like the cap for ignore pain is 100% higher in general.  It will still give bigger chunks based on missing health as stated.  Even at 100% hp I can stack it to 934k vs 584k with Indomitable.  

Any idea if this is intended? If so it seems to me that Never Surrender would be much better for progression than the others.

I've been discussing this with a friend aswell. To me it seems like a bug but I'm not sure. The 100% increased effect might also increase the maximum cap by 100%.

Never Surrender is generally good when you're dropping below 75% (which you should do frequently in harder raids). Indomitable is still better when it comes to stacking up a big Ignore Pain since you in most cases won't have time to cast 3 additional Ignore Pain before you start taking damage again.

 

Quote

Actually, might have found a bug...

If I have vengeance (lvl 90 talent) selected, I can't stack my IP's anymore. The duration renews, but the extra value is not added to the shield.

I'll look into this, thanks for letting me know!

Cheers,
Naowh

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I think Ultimatum is undervalued. Considering when paired with vengeance its the only talent in that tier that has any impact on active mitigation.

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Guest Hoboedd

Where is your explanation for the choice of a stamina flask by default? To me that just doesn't make sense, you get more IP absorbs and therefor a larger effective heal pool(that healers don't need to spend mana to refill) in addition to increased damage output, which reduces the amount of time you need to spend tanking and also helps healer mana. You could, if the mana isn't needed, then adjust and turn that rage into focused rage, mid fight, for the dps. You lose all that damage healing and flexibility with a stamina flask. Also, "alot" is not a word, not a grammar nazi but if you're publishing guides I figure that info might come in handy as you continue forward. The only benefits I see from a stam flask are very situation specific, the usual stamina benefits of giving your healers time, + % of total health  healing abilities such as victory rush, kinda sorta last stand, and the addition of any external heals to that list.

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Guest Be_eezy

Is it just me or does the simple mouse over macro for intercept not working for anyone else

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13 hours ago, Guest Be_eezy said:

Is it just me or does the simple mouse over macro for intercept not working for anyone else

Can you post the exact macro, and maybe we can see what's wrong :)

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Guest Be_eezy
9 hours ago, Vlad said:

Can you post the exact macro, and maybe we can see what's wrong :)

#showtooltip Intercept

/cast [@mouseover, help, nodead][@target]Intercept

every time i try to cast it says you have no target

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Guest not the best way

1) stat priority : crit > ver > haste > mastery. See #3

2) your best mitagation is ignore pain. 90% damage reduction. Thus you should aim for 100% uptime IP.

3) Use shield block to boost the crit chance of shield slam, not to mitagate damage. Always time it with shield slam.

4) thus indomitable (this is why you need crit), vengence, heavy repercussion and ultimatum are mendatory. Battle cry should be used as a defensive cooldown to proc free focused rage that allows you to use IP even more.

 

If you can pull non-threatening trash to bosses, soloing them in 5man is easy. 100% uptime IP and victory rush = 100% health when you kill boss.

 

No wonder I see many incompetent prot warriors out there. I am always number one heal by far in group and even holding aggro, the one taking LEAST damage due to ignore pain.

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On September 2, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Guest Be_eezy said:

#showtooltip Intercept

/cast [@mouseover, help, nodead][@target]Intercept

every time i try to cast it says you have no target

I will look into this and get back to you.

8 hours ago, Guest not the best way said:

1) stat priority : crit > ver > haste > mastery. See #3

2) your best mitagation is ignore pain. 90% damage reduction. Thus you should aim for 100% uptime IP.

3) Use shield block to boost the crit chance of shield slam, not to mitagate damage. Always time it with shield slam.

4) thus indomitable (this is why you need crit), vengence, heavy repercussion and ultimatum are mendatory. Battle cry should be used as a defensive cooldown to proc free focused rage that allows you to use IP even more.

 

If you can pull non-threatening trash to bosses, soloing them in 5man is easy. 100% uptime IP and victory rush = 100% health when you kill boss.

 

No wonder I see many incompetent prot warriors out there. I am always number one heal by far in group and even holding aggro, the one taking LEAST damage due to ignore pain.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but I'll reply for the sake of anyone else reading this.

This guide is meant for progression content, meaning times when your survival as a tank is of the utmost importance. Ignore Pain is not "your best mitigation". We have a section about that in the guide.

Shield Block should not be used to boost the damage of Shield Slam, unless you are not concerned with your survivability (i.e., doing non-threatening, non-progression content).

I won't bother dignifying the rest of your post. Just read the guide, it's all in there.

Thanks

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Guest kaboo

i dont think revenge should be in single target rotation when you pick heavy repercussions. its just a little more damage than devastate and you lose 30% chance to reset shield slam cooldown, which will then deal a lot more damage and increase duration of your shield block.

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Guest Re-read my post
On 9/4/2016 at 10:27 AM, Vlad said:

I will look into this and get back to you.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but I'll reply for the sake of anyone else reading this.

This guide is meant for progression content, meaning times when your survival as a tank is of the utmost importance. Ignore Pain is not "your best mitigation". We have a section about that in the guide.

Shield Block should not be used to boost the damage of Shield Slam, unless you are not concerned with your survivability (i.e., doing non-threatening, non-progression content).

I won't bother dignifying the rest of your post. Just read the guide, it's all in there.

Thanks

No, I am not trolling. Ignore pain is your BEST and ultimate mitigation

What % of mitigation can you achieve with any other mean?

Ignore pain provides 90% damage reduction. The only challenge is to keep up with the up-time.

I manage to keep my ignore pain up 90% of the time. The result is that I barely take any damage. And if I do, I get it back with impending victory. I level up with dungeons to 110 and I have gotten feedback after feedback from healers that running dungeons with me is EASY because they don't really have to heal me. My total heal (absorb) is always more than healers if not doubled.

I can solo legion 5man bosses with that setup. I don't see anyone soloing bosses without 100%uptime ignore pain.

The mitigation from shield block is negatable comparing to ignore pain's 90% reduction. Using it for crit shield slam means you can spend that 15 rage on ignore pain.

I see too many incompetent warriors taking more damage than they should because they underrate and do not know how to abuse ignore pain. I suggest you look into it and try before replying.

 

On 9/4/2016 at 10:27 AM, Vlad said:

I will look into this and get back to you.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but I'll reply for the sake of anyone else reading this.

This guide is meant for progression content, meaning times when your survival as a tank is of the utmost importance. Ignore Pain is not "your best mitigation". We have a section about that in the guide.

Shield Block should not be used to boost the damage of Shield Slam, unless you are not concerned with your survivability (i.e., doing non-threatening, non-progression content).

I won't bother dignifying the rest of your post. Just read the guide, it's all in there.

Thanks

 

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17 hours ago, Guest kaboo said:

i dont think revenge should be in single target rotation when you pick heavy repercussions. its just a little more damage than devastate and you lose 30% chance to reset shield slam cooldown, which will then deal a lot more damage and increase duration of your shield block.

The thing is that Revenge is guaranteed to generate 5 Rage on use, whereas Devastate is far from guaranteed to reset Shield Slam. Also, since Revenge's cooldown is regularly reset, it's a good idea to keep it rolling. So I think the priority is fine as is at the moment.

16 hours ago, Guest Re-read my post said:

No, I am not trolling. Ignore pain is your BEST and ultimate mitigation

What % of mitigation can you achieve with any other mean?

Ignore pain provides 90% damage reduction. The only challenge is to keep up with the up-time.

I manage to keep my ignore pain up 90% of the time. The result is that I barely take any damage. And if I do, I get it back with impending victory. I level up with dungeons to 110 and I have gotten feedback after feedback from healers that running dungeons with me is EASY because they don't really have to heal me. My total heal (absorb) is always more than healers if not doubled.

I can solo legion 5man bosses with that setup. I don't see anyone soloing bosses without 100%uptime ignore pain.

The mitigation from shield block is negatable comparing to ignore pain's 90% reduction. Using it for crit shield slam means you can spend that 15 rage on ignore pain.

I see too many incompetent warriors taking more damage than they should because they underrate and do not know how to abuse ignore pain. I suggest you look into it and try before replying.

 

 

Against full casters, for example, or against damage so low that you can keep full uptime on Ignore Pain, sure, it's great. But when the melee damage is so high that it chews through your Ignore Pain, Shield Block's percentage damage reduction for the whole duration (instead of it being basically an absorb shield) is better.

Hey, maybe your way works, and if that's the case and we can get confirmation of that in progression content (mythic raids, mythic+ dungeons), we will edit the guide accordingly.

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Guest Docca
17 hours ago, Guest Re-read my post said:

No, I am not trolling. Ignore pain is your BEST and ultimate mitigation

What % of mitigation can you achieve with any other mean?

Ignore pain provides 90% damage reduction. The only challenge is to keep up with the up-time.

I manage to keep my ignore pain up 90% of the time. The result is that I barely take any damage. And if I do, I get it back with impending victory. I level up with dungeons to 110 and I have gotten feedback after feedback from healers that running dungeons with me is EASY because they don't really have to heal me. My total heal (absorb) is always more than healers if not doubled.

I can solo legion 5man bosses with that setup. I don't see anyone soloing bosses without 100%uptime ignore pain.

The mitigation from shield block is negatable comparing to ignore pain's 90% reduction. Using it for crit shield slam means you can spend that 15 rage on ignore pain.

I see too many incompetent warriors taking more damage than they should because they underrate and do not know how to abuse ignore pain. I suggest you look into it and try before replying.

 

 

He is right - I have been tanking as I have been leveling and the feedback has been the same. Healers can't get over how little my HP moves because I keep Ignore Pain up ALL the time.  The Talents Vengeance and Ultimatum interact beautifully - making the rotation between ignore pain and focused rage cost effective. I will also note - I don't sit and wait for a large rage pool to activate IP - as soon as:

1) I have reach the minimum rage threshold

AND

2) It's cost is reduced in the vengeance rotatio

This is because of the stacking feature of IP - frequently getting to a pool size upwards of 1.2 Million...

I still try to maintain Shield Block 100% of the time in trash tanking/multiple incoming physical attack scenarios (trash tanking and specific boss scenarios) as this decreases the drain on your Ignore Pain pool. If I am entering a scenario such as this, I will Shield Block first then work on get IP up and running. You should also try and keep Shield Block up for the duration of these encounters, because that will keep your IP up....

Imagine Shield block as the icing on your proverbial Ignore Pain Cake...

Haste is still king though... the faster you can roll through your rotation - the faster the you stack IP, the longer you can keep Shield Block up. Crit is nice, but is definitely low man on the totem pole - damage is not an issue... we are tanking here, the name of the game is mitigation ladies. So disagreeing with "Guest not the best way" in terms of stat priority.

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40 minutes ago, Guest Docca said:

He is right - I have been tanking as I have been leveling and the feedback has been the same. Healers can't get over how little my HP moves because I keep Ignore Pain up ALL the time.  The Talents Vengeance and Ultimatum interact beautifully - making the rotation between ignore pain and focused rage cost effective. I will also note - I don't sit and wait for a large rage pool to activate IP - as soon as:

1) I have reach the minimum rage threshold

AND

2) It's cost is reduced in the vengeance rotatio

This is because of the stacking feature of IP - frequently getting to a pool size upwards of 1.2 Million...

I still try to maintain Shield Block 100% of the time in trash tanking/multiple incoming physical attack scenarios (trash tanking and specific boss scenarios) as this decreases the drain on your Ignore Pain pool. If I am entering a scenario such as this, I will Shield Block first then work on get IP up and running. You should also try and keep Shield Block up for the duration of these encounters, because that will keep your IP up....

Imagine Shield block as the icing on your proverbial Ignore Pain Cake...

Haste is still king though... the faster you can roll through your rotation - the faster the you stack IP, the longer you can keep Shield Block up. Crit is nice, but is definitely low man on the totem pole - damage is not an issue... we are tanking here, the name of the game is mitigation ladies. So disagreeing with "Guest not the best way" in terms of stat priority.

Just throwing in my 2 cents for this IP vs. SB argument. Both yourself and the previous contributor have stated one major fact:

You leveled as tanks, while completing normal dungeons. 

It's completely understandable that IP works there. Of course it does. You take barely any damage in normal leveling dungeons, because they were never created to be specifically challenging for the tanks. You're not meant to get one shot. The idea of stacking maximum pool IP will not happen when you are main-tanking a mythic raid boss or a big trash pack in M8+. 

On September 4, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Guest not the best way said:

1) stat priority : crit > ver > haste > mastery. See #3

2) your best mitagation is ignore pain. 90% damage reduction. Thus you should aim for 100% uptime IP.

3) Use shield block to boost the crit chance of shield slam, not to mitagate damage. Always time it with shield slam.

4) thus indomitable (this is why you need crit), vengence, heavy repercussion and ultimatum are mendatory. Battle cry should be used as a defensive cooldown to proc free focused rage that allows you to use IP even more.

 

If you can pull non-threatening trash to bosses, soloing them in 5man is easy. 100% uptime IP and victory rush = 100% health when you kill boss.

 

No wonder I see many incompetent prot warriors out there. I am always number one heal by far in group and even holding aggro, the one taking LEAST damage due to ignore pain.

The thought of even using Shield Block as a pure damage increase is ridiculous. If you're holding out Shield Block to make sure you're doing more damage, I can guarantee your raid leader in Mythic will be sitting there asking why you died. 

Shield Block is SO cheap right now. It costs barely any rage and there is 0 reason to not be using it. The flat shield from IP works fantastically, when you're getting hit for 100k by a mob. That's fine, you'll be OK using IP exclusively. 

Let's say you're tanking Mythic+10 Eye of Azshara, it's the last M+ I can remember completing. Let's say you have a pack + one of the large murloc-type mobs. Each melee hit dealt 1M+ damage to my Blood DK from the large mob, with another 250K or so from each trash mob with it. 

I guarantee your healer won't be praising your IP shield when you're tanking this. They will most likely be asking why you died after 1 pack. SB should ALWAYS be your priority. If you've got it, USE IT. You will aim for Haste as a main stat because you NEED shield block uptime. IP just does not do enough alone. You will stack haste until you have 100% uptime on your shield block.

I would love to be proven wrong and if so, please feel free to venture into a M+ dungeon when they launch. Take Shield Block off your bars and go tank with just IP, with full crit/vers gear. You'll be dead before the first boss and you most certainly won't be soloing any bosses.

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Guest Docca
31 minutes ago, Blainie said:

Just throwing in my 2 cents for this IP vs. SB argument. Both yourself and the previous contributor have stated one major fact:

You leveled as tanks, while completing normal dungeons. 

It's completely understandable that IP works there. Of course it does. You take barely any damage in normal leveling dungeons, because they were never created to be specifically challenging for the tanks. You're not meant to get one shot. The idea of stacking maximum pool IP will not happen when you are main-tanking a mythic raid boss or a big trash pack in M8+. 

 

I don't think I said SB shouldn't be utilized but it should be prioritized given certain encounters. 

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      Holly Longdale
    • By Stan
      Blizzard just pushed an encrypted Patch 10.2.7 build to the WoW Dev 3 CDN branch.
      WoW Dev 3 has been updated from 10.2.6.53840 to 10.2.7.53954. The build is encrypted and we can't datamine it.
      Placeholder for tweet 1773384989314298365 13 days ago, we saw the very first encrypted Patch 10.2.7 build on a different branch (WoW Vendor 2).
      Placeholder for tweet 1768106695425700174 According to the 2024 roadmap, Patch 10.2.7, dubbed Dark Heart, is set to introduce new features such as Timerunning Pandamonium, Harbinger Quests, Troll & Draenei Heritage Armor, and a new holiday event.

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