Protection Warrior 7.3

[Guest Wickedwar]

When i use simulatiocraft my stat priority's are Vers > Armor > BonusArmor > Str > AP > Mastery > Crit > Sta > Haste. but how can haste be at the last place when in the guide it says that crit should be worse. it also says gives a huge margin to vers. sometimes it says that i could better equip an 810 ilvl with a little bit of vers then an 840 with haste and mastery. in these scenarios should i just follow the guide or follow simulationcraft?

[Ishmerai 0]

3 hours ago, Guest Wickedwar said:

When i use simulatiocraft my stat priority's are Vers > Armor > BonusArmor > Str > AP > Mastery > Crit > Sta > Haste. but how can haste be at the last place when in the guide it says that crit should be worse. it also says gives a huge margin to vers. sometimes it says that i could better equip an 810 ilvl with a little bit of vers then an 840 with haste and mastery. in these scenarios should i just follow the guide or follow simulationcraft?

I switched over to the recommended stat priority of this guide this week. I was really hurting. I thought it was just because of the nerf. But last night, I switched back to my old stat priority, like what you listed, and it helped a lot. Curious to see what anyone else has to say about this.  

[Valks 2,373]

17 hours ago, Guest Wickedwar said:

When i use simulatiocraft my stat priority's are Vers > Armor > BonusArmor > Str > AP > Mastery > Crit > Sta > Haste. but how can haste be at the last place when in the guide it says that crit should be worse. it also says gives a huge margin to vers. sometimes it says that i could better equip an 810 ilvl with a little bit of vers then an 840 with haste and mastery. in these scenarios should i just follow the guide or follow simulationcraft?

Because a general stat priority is exactly that. General.

Stat priorities can always change depending on what your gear is currently. Also, what simulation did you run? Tank Dummy or TMI? What difficulty was the boss? What type of damage is being done - constant or burst? Magical or physical?

More physical damage means Crit goes up in value because of the Parry, which simcraft sees as a way to stop physical damage flowing in. 

Stamina is obviously not that bad, but simcraft devalues it because it does nothing to stop damage, which is what they are tracking: damage reduction per second. You do, however, need some Stamina otherwise you get 1 shot by bosses. 

You need to do more than run 1 sim for tanking. As for the comparison of gear, it depends entirely on the slot. Is it a neck piece or is it a chest piece?

Also, when simming remove Armor/BA/AP from the sim. They simply aren't worth having weights for, since you cannot actively seek them.

[Valks 2,373]

13 hours ago, Ishmerai said:

I switched over to the recommended stat priority of this guide this week. I was really hurting. I thought it was just because of the nerf. But last night, I switched back to my old stat priority, like what you listed, and it helped a lot. Curious to see what anyone else has to say about this.  

See above.

Also, what did you swap from/to?

[Guest Wickedwar]

4 hours ago, Blainie said:

Because a general stat priority is exactly that. General.

Stat priorities can always change depending on what your gear is currently. Also, what simulation did you run? Tank Dummy or TMI? What difficulty was the boss? What type of damage is being done - constant or burst? Magical or physical?

More physical damage means Crit goes up in value because of the Parry, which simcraft sees as a way to stop physical damage flowing in. 

Stamina is obviously not that bad, but simcraft devalues it because it does nothing to stop damage, which is what they are tracking: damage reduction per second. You do, however, need some Stamina otherwise you get 1 shot by bosses. 

You need to do more than run 1 sim for tanking. As for the comparison of gear, it depends entirely on the slot. Is it a neck piece or is it a chest piece?

Also, when simming remove Armor/BA/AP from the sim. They simply aren't worth having weights for, since you cannot actively seek them.

I usually use the TMI standard boss option in which(correct me if im mistaken)is difficulty not switchable. And how do you switch the type of dmg? i don't see an option for that. I always assumed that TMI was just an average of all types of dmg. Mind sharing how you would see correctly how to see the stat priority for you? It also might be an good idea to have an section in the guide talk a bit about this since a lot of people i know are struggling with the same difficulties.

Cheers,

Wickedwar

[Valks 2,373]

1 hour ago, Guest Wickedwar said:

I usually use the TMI standard boss option in which(correct me if im mistaken)is difficulty not switchable. And how do you switch the type of dmg? i don't see an option for that. I always assumed that TMI was just an average of all types of dmg. Mind sharing how you would see correctly how to see the stat priority for you? It also might be an good idea to have an section in the guide talk a bit about this since a lot of people i know are struggling with the same difficulties.

Cheers,

Wickedwar

So, from what I remember, TMI and Tanking Dummy are essentially mimicking two different styles of boss.

TMI deals damage to you with auto attacks, while constantly maintaining a magical DoT on you. There is no downtime of the DoT, nor does it vary in damage. 

Tanking Dummy deals the same auto attacks, but takes away the DoT. Instead, you receive two large spikes of damage every X seconds. One is magical, one is physical, to mimic boss abilities.

As you can probably tell, these two can give pretty different results since they are trying to achieve different things. There isn't really a sim that you can run that sims every style of boss, but instead, the safest thing to do is to use both types of sim and compare. Following one exclusively might lead you to feel very fragile on certain bosses and much safer on others.

As an example, TMI is all about smoothing constant damage. TD tries to stop you get destroyed by larger hits. The best thing you can do is look at the fights in EN and make a priority for yourself from the weights.

The priority we list has 2 different goals, one that aims to have as much shield block uptime, which means smoothing of as much physical damage as possible, while the other is just straight survivability through IP. They are very good in very different situations, as you can probably imagine.

[Guest Wickedwar]

1 hour ago, Blainie said:

So, from what I remember, TMI and Tanking Dummy are essentially mimicking two different styles of boss.

TMI deals damage to you with auto attacks, while constantly maintaining a magical DoT on you. There is no downtime of the DoT, nor does it vary in damage. 

Tanking Dummy deals the same auto attacks, but takes away the DoT. Instead, you receive two large spikes of damage every X seconds. One is magical, one is physical, to mimic boss abilities.

As you can probably tell, these two can give pretty different results since they are trying to achieve different things. There isn't really a sim that you can run that sims every style of boss, but instead, the safest thing to do is to use both types of sim and compare. Following one exclusively might lead you to feel very fragile on certain bosses and much safer on others.

As an example, TMI is all about smoothing constant damage. TD tries to stop you get destroyed by larger hits. The best thing you can do is look at the fights in EN and make a priority for yourself from the weights.

The priority we list has 2 different goals, one that aims to have as much shield block uptime, which means smoothing of as much physical damage as possible, while the other is just straight survivability through IP. They are very good in very different situations, as you can probably imagine.

I just did two simulations. One with TMI and one with the tank dummy, and they both give me almost the same stat ranking. 

And again is haste by far the lowest stat. This is really strange when you look at the fact that i have almost none haste gear equiped. Could this be an error with my options? Since this is driving me nuts. ;(

Cheers,

Wickedwar

[Guest Proximity_Suramar]

Actually tanking with a versatility/mastery build, doing very fine up to mythic+ 6-7 dungeons. I used to play a haste based build before, it was very fun to play, but indeed suffered a bit from lack of survivability. 

Following the 7.0.3 nerf, I found myself generating much less rage. The only thing that really changed for me now is that I have to make sure I've got the Endure pain buff all the time, sometimes making me using it two times in a row instead of a focused rage. I've thought that adding haste might help a bit to maximise the rage generation efficiency, so I've did, and honestly, haste definitely adds some kind of smoothness to the build. Even though I admit that I have way too much Mastery than I should/would like to carry, I think that a hybrid build between the two suggestions would clearly be a way-to-go build, since carrying only Mastery and Versatility only makes you better when you're facing short term big dps while the Haste build makes you better while facing sustained dps for a longer period of time. From what I'm seeing, the Versatility/Mastery build works better for bosses, while the Haste/Versatility works way better for mythic dungeons trash (which are in fact way more dangerous than the bosses there for most of the time).

Something looking like Strenght > Versatility > Mastery = Haste > Crit 

Lets say ~850 item level gear would give you arround 10 000 on a main stat, that would mean you'd probably get arround 10k versatility, 5k mastery and 5k haste. 5k haste means arround 17-18% which would allow you to keep up shield block 95% of the time, considering the devastate procs and heavy repercussions.

What do you guys think about it?

[Valks 2,373]

On 10/1/2016 at 10:51 PM, Guest Wickedwar said:

I just did two simulations. One with TMI and one with the tank dummy, and they both give me almost the same stat ranking. 

And again is haste by far the lowest stat. This is really strange when you look at the fact that i have almost none haste gear equiped. Could this be an error with my options? Since this is driving me nuts. ;(

Cheers,

Wickedwar

It's entirely possible that it is an options difference, yeah. It's rather confusing. Can you PM me your options settings?

[Valks 2,373]

On 10/2/2016 at 4:29 PM, Guest Proximity_Suramar said:

What do you guys think about it?

I think this is fair enough, perhaps a "balanced" build would be a good addition. The builds were intended to do as you said, where one is for smoothness vs. physical damage, the other is better for spike damage. 

[Guest Docca]

Hi - haven't posted in a while. I am current at ~ilvl864, with a focus of haste (just can't find decent gear with vers/mastery) 

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuluhed/Docca/simple

I have been clearing mythic plus, upwards of lvl 9 and have not been having any noticeable survival issues, but i see that in most tanking videos warriors are maximizing their rage for IP application. I understand that at higher levels of rage, the IP mitigates more but I have been applying it as it comes up in my rotation - this may be at a lower level of rage than 39. Am i doing myself a serious disservice? I worry that by sitting and waiting for max rage, my hp will yo-yo more. Thanks.

[Valks 2,373]

1 minute ago, Guest Docca said:

Thanks.

Going to forward you to this thread on the forums:

It's worth reading Estarriol's posts further down, he goes over max-rage IP usage in pretty heavy detail.

[Guest Docca]

Thanks - the math makes sense. I think I just need to do it and not worry about not having IP up at EVERY moment.

[Valks 2,373]

No worries, glad it helped. :)

[Guest nave]

I play a prot warrior as an alt so i didn't freak out too much when the nerf came, but im having trouble surviving even normals now, is the build getting updated anytime soon? i kinda just need to be told what to do lol, i never tanked before this alt, and i WAS loving it, but it seems like prot warrior ma be a bad choice now. 

[Valks 2,373]

On 10/5/2016 at 5:30 PM, Guest nave said:

I play a prot warrior as an alt so i didn't freak out too much when the nerf came, but im having trouble surviving even normals now, is the build getting updated anytime soon? i kinda just need to be told what to do lol, i never tanked before this alt, and i WAS loving it, but it seems like prot warrior ma be a bad choice now. 

Warrior is definitely still a strong tank, just not as OP as it was due to the IP nerfs. I'll ask and see if anything needs to be updated, but I believe it already has been.

[Guest Dellirium]

With the changes to the Focused Rage, the talent alone now only serves as a DPS increase tool. The rage-cost of a buffed (with Vengeance: Focused Rage) cast of FR is 20 rage (even though tooltip says 19). The benefit that Ignore Pain gets from it is 53.8% more efficiency (1/0.65). This is to say there is only 1 point on the rage scale from 20-60 where using a buffed Focused Rage into Ignore Pain will yield you more absorption then if you were to just use Ignore Pain, and that is at 59 rage.

The only use of this talent to improve mitigation is through free casts because of Ultimatum, without that, the talent is pure dps talent and offers no protection.

[Guest Me is me :-).]

I actually want to question Ignore Pain as active mitigation ability. It is ignored by the boss encounters, still you list it there. You read more and more that people say they've been hit by abilities having active mitigration up, when asking them if they had SB up they say "no, IP".

IP seems to be ignored by all active mitigation ability checks. At least - add a note here :p.

[Valks 2,373]

21 hours ago, Guest Dellirium said:

With the changes to the Focused Rage, the talent alone now only serves as a DPS increase tool. The rage-cost of a buffed (with Vengeance: Focused Rage) cast of FR is 20 rage (even though tooltip says 19). The benefit that Ignore Pain gets from it is 53.8% more efficiency (1/0.65). This is to say there is only 1 point on the rage scale from 20-60 where using a buffed Focused Rage into Ignore Pain will yield you more absorption then if you were to just use Ignore Pain, and that is at 59 rage.

The only use of this talent to improve mitigation is through free casts because of Ultimatum, without that, the talent is pure dps talent and offers no protection.

I believe this has already been answered above with a link to this forum discussion:

Read Estarriol's posts on it and let me know if that answers your question.

[Valks 2,373]

14 hours ago, Guest Me is me :-). said:

I actually want to question Ignore Pain as active mitigation ability. It is ignored by the boss encounters, still you list it there. You read more and more that people say they've been hit by abilities having active mitigration up, when asking them if they had SB up they say "no, IP".

IP seems to be ignored by all active mitigation ability checks. At least - add a note here :p.

That's because the guide's description of Active Mitigation doesn't mean meeting those checks. Active Mitigation is a spell which requires a tank to play an active role in creating their own mitigation of damage, rather than simply passively reducing it through a stat or passive ability. 

I'll see if we can add a note to it.

[Guest Zeo]

I would recommend to prioritize haste until you claimed around 20% haste. 

After that, go for the recommended stats, except swap haste and crit, because you already have enough haste now.

1. Strength;
2. Versatility;
3. Mastery;
4. Haste Critical Strike.
5. Critical Strike. Haste;

[Valks 2,373]

On 10/11/2016 at 2:04 PM, Guest Zeo said:

I would recommend to prioritize haste until you claimed around 20% haste. 

After that, go for the recommended stats, except swap haste and crit, because you already have enough haste now.

1. Strength;
2. Versatility;
3. Mastery;
4. Haste Critical Strike.
5. Critical Strike. Haste;

Why 20%?

[Guest Barto]

Hey, 

Can anyone give post a Pawn string, with the stats weights?

Strength > Versatility > Mastery > Haste > Critical Strike

 

Thanks :)

[Guest Luke]

I am a little confused... in the stat priority page it puts versatility pretty much on top and haste pretty low... but on the bis and gear recommendations there is not a single item with versatility?? did i miss something here?

[Valks 2,373]

On 10/12/2016 at 6:54 PM, Guest Barto said:

Hey, 

Can anyone give post a Pawn string, with the stats weights?

Strength > Versatility > Mastery > Haste > Critical Strike

 

Thanks :)

The best way to find a pawn string that works is via TMI/Dummy sims and then conglomerate the two.