Jump to content
FORUMS
Damien

Vengeance Demon Hunter 7.3

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, Guest HobbitTank said:

This guide should be more specific with its claims. Why is it that Soul Barrier is completely undesirable right now? Last Resort is very powerful, but doesn't keep you alive for very long if you just die again from a big hit. Soul Barrier seems to be the best choice when you don't have your 4-set bonus and decent gear, but this guide simply neglects it and doesn't explain why. 

The explanation is right there, namely that it is undertuned. There is no way you will die after Last Resort procs assuming that there are healers present and you can use your abilities to keep yourself alive.

If Soul Barrier becomes worth taking, we're going to update the guide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest cherry

Level 106 middle talent is wrong it is "Fel Eruption" now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest VengeanceDemonHunter

Any word on the rotation priority of Fracture and Fel Devastation if we've taken those talents? If I want to maximize DPS, is it even worth using Pain on those talents instead of Soul Cleave?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Thordelar

Although it's already recommended in the guide, surely Felblade at least provides some vicarious survivability by virtue of the fact that it generates pain?

Over the course of a boss fight in particular, the pain generation it provides can be pretty significant. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Talents

in your tear 3 and tear 5 you have no survivabilety from it but on your artifackt weapon you have a skill that converts 15% of your fire dameg to healing so wodent it be surviaval to heal your self from the sigile of flame?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On September 2, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Guest flow0284 said:

It looks like that there was an mistake with the consumeables. The Flask of the Countless Armies IconFlask of the Countless Armies  grants 1.300 strength. DH needs Agility or am I false? ;)

Thanks for noticing! I've fixed this.

On September 2, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Guest Talents said:

in your tear 3 and tear 5 you have no survivabilety from it but on your artifackt weapon you have a skill that converts 15% of your fire dameg to healing so wodent it be surviaval to heal your self from the sigile of flame?

Well, that's technically true. But honestly, the healing amount isn't significant enough, I think, to be mentioning it everywhere where anything deals Fire damage. I'll add something to the rotation page about Charred Warblades, though. Thanks for the comment.

On September 2, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Guest Thordelar said:

Although it's already recommended in the guide, surely Felblade at least provides some vicarious survivability by virtue of the fact that it generates pain?

Over the course of a boss fight in particular, the pain generation it provides can be pretty significant. 

You are very correct about this. I will make a mention. Thank you!

On September 1, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Guest VengeanceDemonHunter said:

Any word on the rotation priority of Fracture and Fel Devastation if we've taken those talents? If I want to maximize DPS, is it even worth using Pain on those talents instead of Soul Cleave?

Fracture is not worth using for survivability and you just it when you have spare Pain and want to do DPS. Fel Devastation you use on cooldown. I'm going to add both to the rotation, thank you!

On August 31, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Guest cherry said:

Level 106 middle talent is wrong it is "Fel Eruption" now.

That's only the case for Havoc. As far as I can tell, the Vengeance talents are correct :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest DemonHunter

Soul barrier is better than you give it credit for if you aim to consume as many soul shards as possible. I say this because I have noticed that you can only float 5 soul/lesser soul fragments. Thus, unless you have an incompetent healer, you should be pretty high up there and Soul barrier allows you to essentially overheal when you are near full health and see damage incoming.  Considering you still get the health from shattering soul fragments. Thus it is a 300k + 50k per soul fragment shield with a 50k per lesser soul fragment you consume or 500k per soul fragment ability every 30 seconds. And that for the same cost you only get 100k in comparison (this is comparing my stats post math cause math)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/6/2016 at 4:45 PM, Guest DemonHunter said:

Soul barrier is better than you give it credit for if you aim to consume as many soul shards as possible. I say this because I have noticed that you can only float 5 soul/lesser soul fragments. Thus, unless you have an incompetent healer, you should be pretty high up there and Soul barrier allows you to essentially overheal when you are near full health and see damage incoming.  Considering you still get the health from shattering soul fragments. Thus it is a 300k + 50k per soul fragment shield with a 50k per lesser soul fragment you consume or 500k per soul fragment ability every 30 seconds. And that for the same cost you only get 100k in comparison (this is comparing my stats post math cause math)

I am in agreement. I find it useful.
 I use 1 fracture (generates 2 fragments) and Immolation Aura to always have 3+ fragments around me when I use Soul Barrier. With chances for extra fragments from Shear I absorb enough damage  to always heal myself to full especially with Charred Warblades. ( Plus you heal from just using Soul Barrier that consumes the fragments.)
I very rarely even need to use my metamorphosis unless the healer is incapacitated and by using fracture to generate soul fragments I manage my health accordingly.

 I always used Fel Eruption as to interrupt/stun abilities that can't be by consume magic but after reading this guide i'll be switching to felblade. 
I did go for Charred Warblades but I want to try out Fueled by Pain and Soul Rending as it sounds like a great combo. I am making my way to Fueled right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest info

On the class overview it says that vengeance demon hunters mitigate "magic" damage frequently. If you are talking about Demon Spikes, that's physical damage only. The only real magic mitigation vengeance has is Fiery Brand on a 1 minute cooldown. Of course, this is also assuming you don't have the Painbringer passive from your artifact weapon.

Maybe this just needs to be updated for current use, but it's just incorrect information for those looking into the class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Guest info said:

On the class overview it says that vengeance demon hunters mitigate "magic" damage frequently. If you are talking about Demon Spikes, that's physical damage only. The only real magic mitigation vengeance has is Fiery Brand on a 1 minute cooldown. Of course, this is also assuming you don't have the Painbringer passive from your artifact weapon.

Maybe this just needs to be updated for current use, but it's just incorrect information for those looking into the class.

Empowered Wards is 30sec cool down for 30% magic damage reduction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9.9.2016 at 1:31 AM, Guest info said:

On the class overview it says that vengeance demon hunters mitigate "magic" damage frequently. If you are talking about Demon Spikes, that's physical damage only. The only real magic mitigation vengeance has is Fiery Brand on a 1 minute cooldown. Of course, this is also assuming you don't have the Painbringer passive from your artifact weapon.

Maybe this just needs to be updated for current use, but it's just incorrect information for those looking into the class.

As was stated above by TeamC, in our Active Mitigation section we detail the magic damage reduction.

Quote

As a Vengeance Demon Hunter, you have 4 active mitigation abilities: Soul Cleave Icon Soul Cleave, Demon Spikes Icon Demon Spikes, Fiery Brand Icon Fiery Brand, and Empower Wards Icon Empower Wards. We will look at them very briefly here before going into more detail later on in the guide.

  • Soul Cleave Icon Soul Cleave should be used whenever you require additional healing.
  • Demon Spikes Icon Demon Spikes should be used frequently, even simply against auto-attacks. Always keep at least one of its charges rolling.
  • Empower Wards Icon Empower Wards should be used before you take significant magic damage.
  • Fiery Brand Icon Fiery Brand should be placed on the target when you anticipate that they will deal high damage to you, or when you simply want to reduce the damage you take.

Please make sure to read the guide before commenting. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Aax

I don't see why you underrate Soul Barrier. While Last Resort is a great save, I believe that it triggers only when something went innately wrong already. Realistically, for me I've seen it trigger mostly in group-wipe situations, and true, it sometimes let me kill the remaining mobs by myself.

But in a good group or raid? You will rarely see it. On the other hand, Soul Barrier is a great survivability talent, which provides up to a million shield/heal. You basically spend 30 pain, and get 

1) 450k shield flat

2) Which can't fall below 60k, so basically it absorbs at least 60k from all attacks for 8 seconds

3) and on top of that you get double-benefit from your soul fragments, because not only they heal you, they grant you equal amount of shield as well.

Bottomline is, during the course of the fight is provides tenfold the benefit of Last Resort. Yea, you mention that it's better to use pain for DPS Soul Cleave/Fracture, but is it? If I look at not even 1 cast of Cleave and then look at the amount I can absorb for that same pain - the DPS gain seems very underwhelming if you ask me. Especially if you don't use fracture and are tanking 1 mob - cleave is REALLY low DPS in these circumstances, and you will trade a huge absorb for that? Well, meh, I disagree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Aax
Quote

As a Vengeance Demon Hunter, you have 4 active mitigation abilities: Soul Cleave Icon Soul Cleave, Demon Spikes Icon Demon Spikes, Fiery Brand Icon Fiery Brand, and Empower Wards Icon Empower Wards. We will look at them very briefly here before going into more detail later on in the guide.

By the way, you mistake the terms "Protective Cooldowns" here with "Active mitigation". Among those listed, only Demon Spikes is an active mitigation cooldown.

 

Active mitigation are abilities that deal with specific boss mechanics, for example prevent debuff application from special boss abilities. Only Demon Spikes does such thing. The rest are merely protective cooldowns that allow you to prevent some damage but do NOT deal with boss mechanics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 13.9.2016 at 10:10 AM, Guest Aax said:

But in a good group or raid? You will rarely see it.

A group can be as good as you wish, this does not change the fact that in progression you WILL die. It's a simple fact of raiding that tanks will die during progression, regardless of whose fault it may be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3.8.2016 at 1:23 AM, Guest Hue said:

Your stat priority posted is completely wrong and not viable for high m+ or raiding situations. Versa > Mastery > crit > haste  is significantly stronger.

Hi ... Versa better then Mastery xD High five ... Mastery > Versa i guess dmg reduce from 60% is a little bit better as 4-5% damage and reduce and mastery give u AP ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Feed the Demon (104)

Talent 104 - Feed the Demon does not appear to be working.  My default recharge time on Demon Spikes is 13.3 seconds.  Consuming soul fragments does not appear to change the recharge time whether I consume them manually or use Soul Cleave.  Is this perhaps a bug on WoW's part or is there perhaps some other cooldown timer that I am unaware of?

 

If perhaps this is not working as intended then your guide may wish to be updated with a different choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/13/2016 at 11:21 AM, Guest Aax said:

By the way, you mistake the terms "Protective Cooldowns" here with "Active mitigation". Among those listed, only Demon Spikes is an active mitigation cooldown.

 

Active mitigation are abilities that deal with specific boss mechanics, for example prevent debuff application from special boss abilities. Only Demon Spikes does such thing. The rest are merely protective cooldowns that allow you to prevent some damage but do NOT deal with boss mechanics.

This is not correct.  Active mitigation does not refer to dealing with specific boss mechanics.  Active mitigation means that the player has to play an active role in mitigating the damage and cannot let a passive proc or ability do it for them.  The cooldowns that are listed are correctly referred to as active mitigation because you need to actually use them, or be active in your playstyle, in order to mitigate damage.  There's an article on wowpedia detailing active mitigation, check it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/13/2016 at 11:21 AM, Guest Aax said:

By the way, you mistake the terms "Protective Cooldowns" here with "Active mitigation". Among those listed, only Demon Spikes is an active mitigation cooldown.

 

Active mitigation are abilities that deal with specific boss mechanics, for example prevent debuff application from special boss abilities. Only Demon Spikes does such thing. The rest are merely protective cooldowns that allow you to prevent some damage but do NOT deal with boss mechanics.

 

Wrong.

11 minutes ago, webster259 said:

Active mitigation does not refer to dealing with specific boss mechanics.  Active mitigation means that the player has to play an active role in mitigating the damage and cannot let a passive proc or ability do it for them.  The cooldowns that are listed are correctly referred to as active mitigation because you need to actually use them, or be active in your playstyle, in order to mitigate damage.  There's an article on wowpedia detailing active mitigation, check it out.

Correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got a question about the stat priority.  I completely understand the strength of Versatility especially with a self healing class like DH.  However, and I understand that these guys aren't DH mains but are very, very good tanks in general in their own respect, I heard Slootbag and Sco both championing haste as the #1 secondary stat with versatility next.  Have you guys heard anything similar to this or have an opinion on it?  Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Vortexan said:

Hi ... Versa better then Mastery xD High five ... Mastery > Versa i guess dmg reduce from 60% is a little bit better as 4-5% damage and reduce and mastery give u AP ...

I'm sure that you have no problems reading, but I'll copy and paste the guide into this comment just for you to double check.

1.1. Survivability

  1. Agility;
  2. Versatility;
  3. Haste >= Mastery;
  4. Critical Strike.

1.2. Damage Output

  1. Agility;
  2. Mastery = Critical Strike >= Versatility >= Haste.

1.3. Dungeons

  1. Agility;
  2. Mastery;
  3. Critical Strike;
  4. Versatility;
  5. Haste.

There are 3 different gearing strats here. For surv, Vers > Mast is due to Vers boosting damage reduction and healing. On a purely mathematical basis, Versatility is the best stat for survivability. It's boring as hell, sure, but the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, webster259 said:

I've got a question about the stat priority.  I completely understand the strength of Versatility especially with a self healing class like DH.  However, and I understand that these guys aren't DH mains but are very, very good tanks in general in their own respect, I heard Slootbag and Sco both championing haste as the #1 secondary stat with versatility next.  Have you guys heard anything similar to this or have an opinion on it?  Thanks

I imagine this is due to Versatility changing absolutely nothing about the way the class plays, so it's not exactly interactive. As I said above, Versa is boring as hell, but the best stat to survive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Etsunari

Nice theorycraft, but...

I'm playing Vengeance since alpha, with all the evolutions until live version, doing Mythics on live and Heroic Raids testings on beta.

You are eyes on wowhead tooltips but ingame numbers aren't the same. My priorities are completly others than the ones you mention.

Agi > Crit > Haste > Mastery>=Versa.

All my CDs are now very short, less than 20s for Empowered Wards, 10 for Immolation Aura. or my spikes. With CDs up all the time, with high "burning", my self-heal is much higher than versa, much more.

The same for the priority of the traits. The most important (for me) is to catch the Charred Warblades. More fire, more self-heal.

Associated with the talents Agonizing Flames and Burning Alive, Feed the Demon+Fire Sigil... more more fire, more more self-heal.

On bad random hits when I'm on my last points of life, Fel Devastation puts me full life in seconds. Again fire = self-heal = survivability.

I let think about it, but I think (and tested) the main purpose of a DH is to burn. That's our main stat and the way to achieve it, it's to mix crit and haste not the boring versa/mastery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Guest Etsunari said:

the boring versa/mastery.

This right here has just highlighted a big part of what you are saying.

You find the way that we suggest to play boring, so you are trying to make another way work. Just because something is boring, does not mean it is bad.

As for the analysis, I'll pass it on to @Lockybalboa since I do not play a Veng DH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Blainie said:

As for the analysis, I'll pass it on to @Lockybalboa since I do not play a Veng DH.

I have nothing to do with writing or maintaining the guide. So...telling me anything doesn't really do anything, I'm just a hardcore raider and a global mod that spends most of my time in the DH area.

You can find my thoughts on tanking stat prio here:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Starym
      Today's hotfixes are still very Plunderstorm-heavy, but we do get fixes for more achievement-related mount issues and PvP catch-up, in addition to the limited time event's adjustments.
      March 27 (Source)
      Achievements
      Fixed bugs causing mounts related to A World Awoken to be unavailable, including Bestowed Ottuk Vanguard, Bestowed Trawling Mammoth, Bestowed Thunderspine Packleader, Bestowed Sandskimmer, Bestowed Ohuna Spotter, Coralscale Salamanther, Stormtouched Bruffalon, and Taivan. Player versus Player
      Fixed an issue that prevented Splintered Sparks of Dreams from dropping from PvP sources while eligible for catch-up. Plunderstorm
      The Storm’s fury swells! Lightning strikes during the final stage of the Storm are faster and more dangerous than before. There is now a delay of 20 seconds after being revived where players no longer drop collected Plunder. Additional enemies now spawn at Witherbark Village, the wild area northeast of Go’Shek Farm, and the wild area between Witherbark Village and Boulderfist Hall. Fixed an issue where swapping back to default sword and gun appearances were not saving correctly. Fixed an issue so that now, picking up an additional rank 2 spell while the same rank 2 spell is equipped properly grants the rank 4 version of the spell. The Captain’s Orders quest “X Marks the Spot” now requires 1 item to be picked up (was 2 items).
    • By Staff
      Well that didn't take long! We found out someone had broken the 700,000 Plunder milestone yesterday evening, and we're already done with the full amount now! Soularpower_ managed to grind it out a couple of hours ago in duos, and grabbed the Plunderkind achievement, so huge congratulations! It's been a week and a day since the event was released, and despite there being plenty of Plunder drop buffs since then it's still great to see someone get it all done already. 


      Unsurprisingly, the first thing Soularpower_ after reaching that goal was... play more Plunderstorm! He's actually still at it if now you want to check the stream out. 
    • By Starym
      Here's our first post-patch look at the Mythic+ log rankings. While the patch didn't really touch any of the DPS or tank specs, there's still some movement there, especially in the raw DPS chart. Healers got some solid changes in the patch, and the definitely had an effect.
      Warcraft Logs Points
      The below logs are based on POINTS, and not actual damage or healing, meaning they log the timed completion for the specs, with higher keys getting more points, obviously. The time in which the dungeon is completed is also a factor, but a much, much smaller one, as it grants very few points if you do it significantly faster than just any in-time completion. We're also using the Normalized Aggregate Scores numbers, for clarity, meaning the top spec is marked as 100 and then the rest are ranked in relation to that peak point.
      All Keys
      95th percentile DPS
      The top percentiles are extremely stable, which makes sense since the patch didn't really bring any significant changes for DPS specs. We have to go down to number 7 to see the first bit of movement, as Destruction moves two up, leaving its fellow Warlock down in 9th, as Arms gets between them, gaining 3 spots. Havoc closes out the top 10 three down, and right behind it we find the newly buffed Elemental moving three up. While Augmentation is being properly calculated, we still find an Evoker in the bottom 3, as Devastation drops one down and takes Marksmanship's place.

      Mythic+ All Keys 95th Percentile Data by Warcraft Logs.
      All Percentiles
      It took Shadow a little longer to get into the top in the generalist bracket, as we find it in 3rd now, pushing Outlaw down one. Balance also moves up, 2 spots into 6th, as it and Arms take advantage of Havoc's fall. The Demon Hunter finds itself 3 down in 9th, while Fury remains stable at the very end of the top 10.

      Mythic+ All Keys All Percentile Data by Warcraft Logs.
      Raw DPS U.GG DPS Rankings
      U.gg's rankings are based on actual DPS taken from Warcraft Logs data, focusing on the top players and span the past two weeks.
      While Outlaw remains at the top, pretty much everything's changing beneath it. Shadow and Retribution joined forces and moved two up together, breaking into the top 3. Fire is also on the rise, gaining 3 spots, and right behind it we find another big leaper, as Arms moves a whopping 5 spots up.
      Mythic+ All Keystone DPS rankings by u.gg.
       
      All Percentiles Tank (Points)
      There's actually some solid movement here, as we see Paladin take 2nd away from DK and Druid take Monk down, with Warrior remaining in last place and DH being far ahead of the pack.
      Mythic+ All Keys All Percentile Data by Warcraft Logs.
      Healer (Points)
      Healers had some significant changes with the patch, but it hasn't stopped Monk from remaining at the top. Druid moves into 2nd, taking Discipline Priest down a peg, and it seems the Holy Priest patch reworks helped it out, as it gains a spot in 4th.

      Mythic+ All Keys All Percentile Data by Warcraft Logs.
       
      For even more in-depth data for each individual key head on over to Warcraft Logs and u.gg. And if you're interested in more info on the specs themselves you can always check out our class guides, as well as our Mythic+ guides and Mythic+ tier list.
    • By Staff
      In Dragonflight Season 4, Awakened/Fated raids will be on a weekly rotation.
      Upon accessing the Adventure Guide and navigating to the Raids section, you'll notice a green gem icon beside the raid that's Awakened for the current week.

      When a raid is Awakened, bosses are more powerful and loot drops are upgraded to a higher item level. The upcoming season revisits the Fated system introduced in Shadowlands Season 4.
    • By Staff
      We've already taken a look at all the items coming to the Trading Post next month, as the Season 4 PTR revealed them, but now let's see them in movement as well! MrGM has detailed everything coming in April, from the awesome Dreadwake mount to a pretty cool polearm, some new capes, and all the other pirate-themed items. Let's take a look. 

      If you'd rather just scroll through some images, you can head on to our original post here. 
×
×
  • Create New...