Damien

Heroes of the Storm Zul'jin

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This thread is for comments about our Zul'jin build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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Zul'Jin is my first day-one purchase; been loving this guy so far! Pretty solid first pass at the guide I'd say, no major complaints with your picks.

a couple talents i'm hoping will be upgraded to at least a "situational" (if not an outright "suggested" status) once you've had some time to play with the guy and finalize this guide:

-headhunter at 4 deserves at least a "situational." though giving up Let the Killing Begin is a big ask, the global enemy vision is completely nuts in certain situations- as a counter to certain heroes and on certain maps, this is a game-winning ability.

-Vicious Assault at 7 is absolutely bonkers, and in many situations allows you to chain Qs infinitely (which deal damage of their own, in addition to the 50% bonus to all your attacks on a target.) recklessness is great, but with many team comps it can be dangerous to rely to heavily on the "fight at low health and live with my ult" plan, and this talent gives you really incredible damage at any health. it also *almost* makes boneslicer worth it at lvl 1 (not quite though, you want axe is a must right now imo). Lastly, it can give the level 13 Eye of Zul'jin speed buff *almost* 100% uptime.

-Forest medicine at 13 is a decent situational defensive talent if you find that the enemy is incapable of diving you. it often allows you to sneak in self healing in the middle of a fight without slowing down your damage and with less loss of positioning. One trick i've done is to pop it while i'm chasing someone down in order to bait them into turning around to break the heal. That said, i'm least convinced on this one, as the other two talents at this level are also very strong.

 

 

 

 

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Hey Voltorocks!

Thanks for the feedback! I'm definitely feeling out how his game play settles over the next few weeks to see what ends up being best in terms of talent selection. And you're absolutely right, I'm already getting the inclination that some talents are definitely going to be headed towards a "situation" if not "recommended pick". Thanks again for the kind words and your thoughts!

-MK

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Although Taz'dingo is definitely superior to Guillotine, I think the later can work really well if the opposing team has a lot of ranged attackers and a meaty anti-dive tank. The damage is absurd with the right setup.

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3 hours ago, Valhalen said:

Although Taz'dingo is definitely superior to Guillotine, I think the later can work really well if the opposing team has a lot of ranged attackers and a meaty anti-dive tank. The damage is absurd with the right setup.

picking it a lot in quick match and team league (where I primarily Q with friends so I know i can coordinate with my healer) and it's a bunch of fun. love throwing it back over a gate after a close chase and watching it chunk someone from almost half health :D

 

in Hero league, prolly best to stick to Taz'dingo but guillotine can serve a cool role for sure

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I think something should be said for the synergy between Vicious Assault and Eye of Zul'jin. I generally take the two whenever I need more kiting and chasing. 

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On 1/9/2017 at 4:10 AM, Guest KiraKusai said:

I think something should be said for the synergy between Vicious Assault and Eye of Zul'jin. I generally take the two whenever I need more kiting and chasing. 

Do you feel like you miss the damage from not taking Reck on Level 7?

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Best in my opinion is 1s pick for Q. If one hero you hit moves out of the way, the fact that you hit lie 5 (instead of 1 or 2) makes for way for targets. Also allows for rapid merc/lane clearing, making him all-around useful.

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On 1/30/2017 at 9:23 AM, Guest Dingo said:

Best in my opinion is 1s pick for Q. If one hero you hit moves out of the way, the fact that you hit lie 5 (instead of 1 or 2) makes for way for targets. Also allows for rapid merc/lane clearing, making him all-around useful.

Don't you feel the effect of missing all that bonus auto damage later into the game though? I would assume the longer the game, the worse this talent choice gets, no?

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About the Taz'Dingo vs Guill. Taz'Dingo has one major flaw, it can't be activated if you are stunned or silenced. And usually you are using it when you are being attacked. If enemy team have a lot of stuns/silences, then, when they start to attack you, you will likely to be stunned/silenced and will die before you will have any chance of activating it, so you are forced to stay back anyway. In such cases, Guill seems like a better idea. It has great range and low cooldown, so you may surprise your enemy while their taking a tower, gathering tribute etc.

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On 2/18/2017 at 9:38 AM, Guest ZebThan said:

(...) Taz'Dingo has one major flaw, it can't be activated if you are stunned or silenced. (...) Guill seems like a better idea. It has great range and low cooldown, so you may surprise your enemy while their taking a tower, gathering tribute etc.

I agree. Guillotine is a great surprise attack that can wipe out the entire enemy team if well timed. Taz'dingo, on the other hand, is absolutely fantastic if you get someone to Cleanse or Shield you as soon the CC chain begins (which is why Uther and Tassadar are some of the best characters to pair with Zul'jin).

Edited by Valhalen

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I usually run a build where my Twin Cleave is my bread and butter. I tend to build by taking Arcanite Axes at lvl 1, for that 25% increase in ability power(when below 50% health), and the cooldown reduction. At the next tier I grab Troll's Blood for a little extra sustain. I then go for Wrong Place Wrong Time, because the damage bonus from landing both axes can be insane, especially with that 25% passive boost from earlier. I then grab Guillotine which not only gets stronger the lower my health is, but it gets a boost from the earlier passive as well. I then grab Forest Medicine for its utility. I like to be able to heal if needed while also positioning for my axes. Swirling death is where this build gets extremely fun. It adds a good amount of utility, and landing both axes at the apex of the curve twice can drop many heroes to half. I use it as utility while fleeing too. When running away, just chuck them in the direction you're running, and anyone closely chasing or a small distance away will get a surprise when their health is suddenly missing, and they're slowed. My final talent is usually Buzzsaw, just for the potential to land a few kills if there are fleeing stragglers. Idk about you guys, but an ability based Zul is really fun, and still outputs good damage. I also have a good amount of range with Twin Cleave being my focus, so chases are usually successful; they both take high damage and are slowed, and it allows me to finish them with some basic attacks if not already dead.

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On 1/8/2017 at 5:35 PM, Voltorocks said:

picking it a lot in quick match and team league (where I primarily Q with friends so I know i can coordinate with my healer) and it's a bunch of fun. love throwing it back over a gate after a close chase and watching it chunk someone from almost half health :D

 

in Hero league, prolly best to stick to Taz'dingo but guillotine can serve a cool role for sure

Ya as convenient and safe as guillotine can be the thing with tazdingo berserking is you do more dmg n attack faster less life you have so when your sitting at 1% life and your unkillable you just wreck people, tie that in with killing people buffs your dmg even more and after a kill your just streaking with basic attacks.  Can kill people in a second so you can legit 1v4 in some situations.  Just cant get that with guillotine.  Tie that in with the escape mechanic since you have no evasion skills n its a solid pick.

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17 hours ago, Guest Phyzm said:

Can kill people in a second so you can legit 1v4 in some situations.  Just cant get that with guillotine.

Yeah, I think  it's pretty widely know that tazdingo is better used offensively than as a simple "stay alive" defensive tool.

 

My thing is that Tazdingo has a lot more counterplay for good opponents, most of those 1v4 situations are games your team was already going to win. I think it's easy to confuse "wow, this ability really makes me feel powerful when it works"  with it being  a really strong ability, when actually it's just stomping players you would have beat anyways.

 

I'm really not even trying to argue for taking guillotine all the time -  I probably go Tazdingo 70% of  the time! Just saying that against a lot of comps, especially if you think your opponents are strong players who have the capacity to counter-play Tazdingo, Guillotine is often the stronger choice towards tipping a tough game in your favor with an improbable snipe or unexpected burst.

Edited by Voltorocks
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I kinda disagree about Boneslicer. It's true that You Want Axe? is generally the best talent to pick, but against heroes like Samuro, TLV, Nova, or simply a ranged-heavy comp Boneslicer will perform better. The main reason is it's harder to complete quest against them. Whenever there are 3 or more ranged heroes I tend to go Boneslicer over YWA, Sam is a definite 'No' to YWA as well, Nova and Raynor having 6.6 range also somewhat nulify the reward. The one exception I know is playing vs Murky, you can complete quest super fast and stack dmg bonus so high whenever he's around, so whenever I see that pesky murloc YWA is an instant pick regardless of comp.

Edited by Haven

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10 hours ago, Haven said:

I kinda disagree about Boneslicer. It's true that You Want Axe? is generally the best talent to pick, but against heroes like Samuro, TLV, Nova, or simply a ranged-heavy comp Boneslicer will perform better. The main reason is it's harder to complete quest against them. Whenever there are 3 or more ranged heroes I tend to go Boneslicer over YWA, Sam is a definite 'No' to YWA as well, Nova and Raynor having 6.6 range also somewhat nulify the reward. The one exception I know is playing vs Murky, you can complete quest super fast and stack dmg bonus so high whenever he's around, so whenever I see that pesky murloc YWA is an instant pick regardless of comp.

The quest gets easier to complete with level 7's talent RecklessnessRecklessness, and should be fairly completeable even when facing a ranged composition. The quest's reward enables you to be a bit safer when attacking those ranged heroes, which is an additional reason to pick it, rather than a reason not to. 

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Isn't it worth is to take Arcanite Axes at lvl 1 if we plan to take Guillotine at lvl 10? A 25% damage increase seems pretty big

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3 hours ago, Farbas said:

Isn't it worth is to take Arcanite Axes at lvl 1 if we plan to take Guillotine at lvl 10? A 25% damage increase seems pretty big

Yes, I would recommend taking Arcanite AxesArcanite Axes if you plan on taking GuillotineGuillotine, because you will be using your highest-damaging ability when at low health anyway. However, since the guide does not recommend taking GuillotineGuillotine, Arcanite AxesArcanite Axes are Not Recommended as well.

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So, unless I'm bad at maths, the level 1 talent BoneslicerBoneslicer comment has an error. It says that it gives a 15% basic attack damage increase when it should give a 10% basic attack damage increase (assuming that the bonus is based off of the current damage bonus and is not a flat increase, in which case it should be a 20% basic attack damage increase).

 

I'm sad that GuillotineGuillotine isn't recommended. I mean, if it were me, I'd think it was situational. If you have an Zarya, Gaz, or Zeratul (or any of the other heroes listed in the abilities section, I guess) use their ability on several enemy heroes, and you're at low health, I imagine that it would almost guarantee victory in a team-fight. 

Edited by TwixTrix

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13 hours ago, TwixTrix said:

So, unless I'm bad at maths, the level 1 talent BoneslicerBoneslicer comment has an error. It says that it gives a 15% basic attack damage increase when it should give a 10% basic attack damage increase (assuming that the bonus is based off of the current damage bonus and is not a flat increase, in which case it should be a 20% basic attack damage increase).

Thanks for pointing this out! This should be fixed soon.

13 hours ago, TwixTrix said:

I'm sad that GuillotineGuillotine isn't recommended. I mean, if it were me, I'd think it was situational. If you have an Zarya, Gaz, or Zeratul (or any of the other heroes listed in the abilities section, I guess) use their ability on several enemy heroes, and you're at low health, I imagine that it would almost guarantee victory in a team-fight. 

Taz'dingo!Taz'dingo! improves your damage output indirectly, as it allows you to either escape, take the opponent down and survive, or to keep fighting for 4 seconds more. However, it is way safer than and works just as well with shields, and works even better with heals than GuillotineGuillotine. Additionally, GuillotineGuillotine may miss.

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1 hour ago, positiv2 said:

Taz'dingo!Taz'dingo! improves your damage output indirectly, as it allows you to either escape, take the opponent down and survive, or to keep fighting for 4 seconds more. However, it is way safer than and works just as well with shields, and works even better with heals than GuillotineGuillotine. Additionally, GuillotineGuillotine may miss.

Indeed. But I still think that Guillotine should be considered as situational. Under the right conditions, it can wipe out an entire team.

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Please update descriptions for Zul'jin.

 

Also, the recent buff to Boneslicer, now increases the damage bonus to 30%, totalling to 80%. I believe this talent is now on par with You Want Axe? talent, since the damage bonus is very noticeable, especially once Vicious Assault talent is taken. In fact, I suggest taking Boneslicer and Vicious Assault to bust tanks rather than the You Want Axe?

Next, Vicious Assault should definitely be recommended. It provides immense synergy with 25% bonus speed talent for Boneslicer and provides the same amount of damage as Recklessness if you hit all the stacks. In addition, Vicious Assault works at all health levels, making it a great option for pokes or commitments.

Lastly, if Vicious Assault and Boneslicer are taken together, Zul'jin gets one of the strongest waveclear for AA assassins in the game. He can blow through a wave as fast as a Valla and shutdown towers even faster. In addition, I've gotten 50% health refunds with the talents for Armani Resilience; whereas, I get only 30% with You Want Axe?. This shows how strong the bonus damage is of Grevious Throw talents, despite the higher damage potential for You Want Axe?

Edited by Trensicourt

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In the characters that synergize with Zul'Jin, you have some broken link snippets that should probably just say the name of the character instead of having a URL.

The discussion on Level 4 Talents says Let the Killing Begin lasts 15 seconds but its tooltip says 12 seconds.

The discussion on Level 16 Talents says Ferocity increases Berserker's bonus by 40% but Ferocity's tooltip says 35%.

Edited by EDL666
Avoiding double posting
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