wow Legion Ending & Next Expansion Leaked

[Stan 5,020]

Spoiler Warning

This article contains spoilers related to Legion's ending and possibly, the next World of Warcraft expansion.

Our friends over at MMO-Champion managed to get ahold of broadcast NPC text (the quotes you see in the game chat when NPCs are talking). From the conversation lines we get to know Legion's ending.

Spoiler

The most important quote is about the Burning Crusade ending and Illidan becoming Sargeras's jailer. 

The Burning Crusade Ends
Magni Bronzebeard: The titans can sever that connection... but not here. They need ta bring the soul o' Argus ta their place o' power... the Seat o' the Pantheon.
Illidan Stormrage: Our victories mean nothing. So long as Sargeras has the soul of Argus to fuel his infinite army, Azeroth remains in grave peril.
Magni Bronzebeard: Their final act will harness the last o' Argus's power, to imprison Sargeras... once and for all.
Magni Bronzebeard: Heroes, I can signal the titans ta begin. Once they start their ritual... there's no turnin' back!
Magni Bronzebeard: The tortured soul of Argus has been put ta rest.
Illidan Stormrage: It matters not. We have lost. Look to the skies!
Prophet Velen: Sargeras will soon undo all we have fought for.
Voice of Amanthul: No.
Voice of Amanthul: We will use the last glimmer of Argus's power to bind him here. The Seat of the Pantheon shall become Sargeras's prison... and ours as well.
Prophet Velen: You would condemn yourselves to stop him?
Illidan Stormrage: Our world must survive... no matter the cost!
Voice of Amanthul: A sacrifice must be made.
Voice of Amanthul: Return home, children of Azeroth. Protect the final titan.
High Exarch Turalyon: Prophet... what happened out there?
Prophet Velen: Illidan serves as the Dark Titan's jailer. His sacrifice has ended the Legion. At long last, the Burning Crusade... is over.

Argus, the Unmaker is the final encounter in Antorus, the Burning Throne.

Argus
Argus: Death! Death and pain!
Argus: Ended!
Argus: All life ends.
Argus: My torment... ends...
Argus: Is it... over?
Argus: Free... free...
Argus: End it all!
Argus: Know the darkness!
Argus: A merciful release!
Argus: The master demands your doom!
Argus: Master! I go to claim your prize!
Argus: No hope. Just pain. Only pain!

Antorus' Heart
Prophet Velen: This may be the one place in the universe sacred to the Legion. Demons would pluck out their eyes sooner than gaze upon it.
Illidan Stormrage: Who could ever imagine such a sacrifice?

Illidan Stormrage: The heart of Antorus lies before us. The power behind the Legion's infinite army.
Magni Bronzebeard: So much agony here... so many voices. It's... it's nearly overwhelmin'! But I can feel Eonar urgin' us forward.
Prophet Velen: At long last, the end is upon us. Press on, my friends.

Another quote that caught our attention is Varimathras and his Alliance conversation line about Jaina.

Varimathras (Alliance)
Varimathras: So, your Alliance still endures. Longer than I expected, though she has already planted the seeds of its downfall. She is patient, that one.
Varimathras: When your thrones run red with betrayal... when your holy places burn and the shattered mask hangs above your hearth... only then you will know. And it will be too late.
Varimathras: It matters not. You are blind to the true darkness closing in around you.

The Horde has a similar version, where he's talking about Sylvanas (the Forsaken).

Varimathras (Horde)
Varimathras: So, she found me at last. Sent her underlings to finish the job.
Varimathras: Tell me, when she seized your throne of hides and bones, was your allegiance forced? No... I'd wager you surrendered it willingly... or were convinced you did.
Varimathras: It matters not. You are blind to the darkness in your midst.

The last one's Eonar the Lifebinder. She's the key to Sargeras's' plan and we need to defend her (remember Valithria Dreamwalker in ICC?).

Eonar
Magni Bronzebeard: The Life-Binder! Somehow, she's the key to Sargeras's plan.
Magni Bronzebeard: We must find her soul. I just don't know how.
Illidan Stormrage: Leave that to me.

Magni Bronzebeard: Champions! I heard a familiar voice callin', so I fought me way inside this accursed place.
Essence of Eonar: Champions, hear me. The Legion has breached my sanctuary, and my defenses will soon be overrun. Stand with me now, lest Sargeras claim his prize.
Magni Bronzebeard: It's Eonar, the Life-Binder! This portal leads ta her sanctuary. Go. I'll stay here and cover yer backs!
Essence of Eonar: The tormented cries of the Pantheon ring out from deep within the core of Argus.
Essence of Eonar: If Sargeras breaks them as he did Aggramar, no power in this universe will stop him.
Essence of Eonar: Release them, champions, or your struggle will be for naught.
Magni Bronzebeard: The souls of the Pantheon are free, but they endured so much sufferin'. Let me bide with 'em fer a time. Offer a bit o' comfort.
Prophet Velen: Remain here, Magni. The rest of us will go on.
Illidan Stormrage: So close now to the end...

Lothraxion's Reunion
Lothraxion: Turalyon! I am pleased you continue to thwart the Legion's best efforts to kill you.
Lothraxion: What of Alleria? Is she...
High Exarch Turalyon: The last time I saw her was on the Xenedar. She was still... under guard.
High Exarch Turalyon: Alleria's out there somewhere, old friend. I know it. And other survivors as well.
High Exarch Turalyon: But thousands of demons stand between us and our allies. We must thin the Legion's ranks to have any hope of reaching the Xenedar alive.
Lothraxion: Then that is what we will do, High Exarch.

Arator's Reunion
High Exarch Turalyon: Son, there is so much more we have to say, but our allies at the Xenedar will soon be overrun.
Alleria Windrunner: You must go to their aid, Turalyon. I will scout behind enemy lines and provide a distraction. We will return soon, Arator.
Arator the Redeemer: I... understand. Light be with you both.
Vereesa Windrunner: Stay safe. We will gather the others and prepare for the battle to come.
Arator the Redeemer: It pains me to see them go, Aunt Vereesa. I could not bear to lose them now, not after waiting all these years.
Vereesa Windrunner: Have patience, Arator. It may take time, but your family will be whole again. I know it.
Arator the Redeemer: No doubt my mother will soon ask about Sylvanas. What are you going to tell her?
Vereesa Windrunner: It is a conversation I know we must have, but the thought of it fills me with dread. How can I explain to Alleria what our sister has become? The truth will break her heart.

Khadgar's Reunion
Archmage Khadgar: It is good to see you again, my friends. When I couldn't find you after the devastation of Draenor, I wasn't sure what to think.
High Exarch Turalyon: We feared for you as well, Khadgar. But I think part of me knew it would take more than the explosion of a planet to slow you down.
Alleria Windrunner: Kurdran and Danath are safe as well?
Archmage Khadgar: Indeed, though I don't get to see them as often as I'd like. When this is all behind us, perhaps the Sons of Lothar should share a reunion feast!
High Exarch Turalyon: I agree. It's been a long time, but as I recall it was your turn to buy the drinks, Khadgar.
Archmage Khadgar: Well, I don't know about that...
Alleria Windrunner: Definitely your turn. Never question an elf's memory... even after a thousand years.

Xal'atath, Blade of the Black Empire (Shadow Priest Weapon)
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: Such potential here, but all of it wasted on a doomed crusade.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: Can you taste it on the air? The sweet nectar of madness? Mmm... this place is swollen with it.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: This one shows promise. The whispers lure her toward her fate.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: The caterpillar has become the butterfly. She is all but ours now.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: He flaunts his defiance of the shadows. Arrogance will be his undoing.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: Watch now as a weak mind gives way to darkness.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: While I relish a healthy lust for power, this one fumbles for it like an amateur.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: Now this is true beauty! At least one of the mortals in your midst can appreciate what it offers.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: So much effort, so much bluster, only to delay the inevitable victory of their betters.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: Imagine this machinery infused with our power. Interesting...
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: What a disappointment. He squandered his potential by backing the wrong side.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: These pretenders play at whispering madness. Amateurs! I should demonstrate proper technique.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: This one would make an excellent champion for our cause. Perhaps he can yet be turned.
Xal'atath Blade of the Black Empire: Long have we sought entry to this realm! To think we have a mortal to thank for giving us our foothold. Your service will be remembered!

Alleria & The Void
Locus-Walker: I have something I want to show you, but we mustn't be seen. Follow.
Alleria Windrunner: Explain yourself first.
Locus-Walker: Such impatience. I believe you will find the answers you seek on the other side.

Locus-Walker: How industriously they work. A pity they will be overtaken.
Alleria Windrunner: I sense a little disappointment. Was I really your best student?

Locus-Walker: I had hoped to find at least one promising soul on this rock.
Alleria Windrunner: I have not turned away from that path. You know why I resisted.

Alleria Windrunner: I need to finish what I started, Locus-Walker.
Locus-Walker: Can you, though? With your... attachments?

Alleria Windrunner: Turalyon trusts me to make hard decisions, and I him.
Locus-Walker: I am not talking about trust.
Locus-Walker: How can you expect to embrace the Shadow with the Light shining so brightly at your side?
Alleria Windrunner: Without the Light there is no Shadow, teacher.

Locus-Walker: Well, Windrunner? What say you?
Alleria Windrunner: Show me the path. I am ready to walk it.
Locus-Walker: Right this way.

Locus-Walker: How do you feel?
Alleria Windrunner: My head is... swimming.
Locus-Walker: Remember... So long as your mind is your own, you command this power. It does not command you.
Alleria Windrunner: How did you do it by yourself?
Locus-Walker: Ah, well. Perhaps I will tell you one day.
Locus-Walker: Until then, I will be keeping an eye on your progress.

Alleria Windrunner: You should return to the Vindicaar and share what we have learned.
Alleria Windrunner: My path takes me into the Seat of the Triumvirate... to whatever fate awaits me there.
Alleria Windrunner: I am certain Velen will understand.

Further Alleria Dialogue
Alleria Windrunner: That thing... it's... calling to me!
Locus-Walker: Focus your mind. Remember your training.

Alleria Windrunner: Arator! Turalyon!?
Locus-Walker: The Void shows only half truths. Trust your instincts.

Alleria Windrunner: I can't-- I-- Argh!
Locus-Walker: Fight, curse you!

Alleria Windrunner: Begone, wretched darkness.
Locus-Walker: Be sure to collect our prize, fleshling. I will tend to Alleria.

Locus-Walker: The heart of a demigod. This is no mere token, Alleria.
Locus-Walker: Take it, and you will be one step closer to your destiny.
Alleria Windrunner: I understand. Thank you. Both of you.

Alleria Windrunner: Such chaos... such anguish. I have never sensed anything like it before.
Locus-Walker: It is rare that a naaru falls into Void this way. The few cases I know of have occurred when mortals were involved. What fascinating implications...
Locus-Walker: Such musings can wait, though. This entity must die.

Alleria Windrunner: How did a being of the Light become a creature of Shadow?
Locus-Walker: The Void is a force of change... of transformation. Shadows are fluid, ever shifting.
Alleria Windrunner: I feel the fallen naaru's power. It beckons me.
Locus-Walker: You stand on the cusp of destiny, Alleria. There will be choices to make... and consequences to face.

Alleria Windrunner: Even defeated, the darkened naaru surges with power. I hear the shadows calling to me.
Locus-Walker: Claim its essence, Alleria Windrunner. Make its chaos your own.

Locus-Walker: You survived... interesting! How do you feel?
Alleria Windrunner: The voices are louder now. More insistent. But they do not control me.
Locus-Walker: You asked me to teach you to use the Void as a weapon. Now that weapon is you.
Alleria Windrunner: It seems my training is complete.
Locus-Walker: Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We need to test the limits of this newfound power. Come.

Kil’Jaeden & Sargeras
Kil’Jaeden: My people, I have called you here to share a revelation.
Kil’Jaeden: For so long, we eredar have been alone in the universe.
Kil’Jaeden: The beacon of our civilization shining bright... upon what we feared was an empty void.
Kil’Jaeden: We need not endure this solitude any longer.
Kil’Jaeden: The Triumvirate has received a visitor from another world!
Kil’Jaeden: He offers us power unlike any we have known before.
Kil’Jaeden: He has shown us the path to a new future.
Kil’Jaeden: In partnership with our new ally, the light of the eredar will shine bright across the cosmos!
Kil’Jaeden: I ask you, now, to raise your voices in praise. Praise Sargeras!

Velen Flees Argus
Chieftain Hatuun: Talgath has turned against us!
Prophet Velen: No... not you too, old friend...
Chieftain Hatuun: It cannot end like this. Take the others and go, Prophet. We will buy you time.
Prophet Velen: Hatuun, no! You do not have to do this!
Chieftain Hatuun: Please... keep my family safe.
Prophet Velen: K'ure! Help us!
Kil’Jaeden: I will hunt you across the stars, traitor! Even if it takes a thousand years!
Voice of Sargeras: Swear loyalty to me, pledge the hearts of your people to my cause. I will transform you, granting you knowledge beyond imagining and might beyond measure.
Voice of Sargeras: Together, we will become Legion, and defeat the hungering void that would consume us all.
Archimonde: It is little enough to ask, for what he offers us.
Kil’Jaeden: Such power... And he speaks the truth.

Prophet Velen: I had hoped the others would sense the darkness behind Sargeras's words. But they were blinded by their vanity... their hunger for power.
Prophet Velen: The ata'mal crystal soon showed me the horrible truth of what would come to pass if we accepted the titan's offer. We would be transformed not into wise leaders, but into hateful monsters.

Sargeras’s Bidding
Aggramar: What is your bidding, master?
Voice of Sargeras: The circle nears completion. The mortals must not disrupt the rebirth.
Aggramar: Those who will not serve shall be destroyed. It is the only way.
Voice of Sargeras: Become the instrument of my wrath once again, Aggramar. End this incursion of the Light.
Voice of Sargeras: The hour of rebirth draws near. Are the souls prepared?
Aggramar: Our kin still resist the true path, master. But they will soon be broken.
Voice of Sargeras: One still eludes us. Her essence is needed to ensure the victory of my crusade.
Aggramar: The Life-Binder will soon reveal herself. She will not escape me, master!
Voice of Sargeras: When my new Pantheon rises, no power in the universe will stand against the Legion!

Illidan
Illidan Stormrage: Your persistence is hardly surprising.
Illidan Stormrage: You are not prepared.
Illidan Stormrage: I will not be touched by rabble such as you.
Illidan Stormrage: YOU ARE NOT PRE-- What's that? Am I denying you something? Bah. You know nothing of true longing.

Alleria talks with Players
Alleria Windrunner: I will not be broken.
Player: What happened to you in the Seat of the Triumvirate?
Alleria Windrunner: As the naaru lay dying, L'ura's essence called to me. A being born of the Light had turned to shadow.
Alleria Windrunner: It was a familiar sensation.
Alleria Windrunner: The transformation you witnessed is under my control, to be used when I see fit. I am the same person I was... and yet, something more.
Alleria Windrunner: The use of such power makes some... uneasy. But shadow is a force to be harnessed, not feared.
Alleria Windrunner: As with any weapon, one must maintain constant control when wielding it.
Player: I see.

Alleria to Hunters with Thas'dorah, Legacy of the Windrunners
Alleria Windrunner: I would have words with you, Huntmaster.
Alleria Windrunner: Vereesa told me you accompanied her on the mission to Niskara. That you risked your own life to rescue me, and prevented her from falling into the inquisitor's trap.
Alleria Windrunner: It is clear you wield Thas'dorah with skill and finesse. You bring honor to the bow, and to the memory of those who carried it before you.
Alleria Windrunner: There may come a day when I will have need of my family weapon once again. But for now, at least, I have a different path to follow.
Alleria Windrunner: Hold Thas'dorah proudly, champion. Know that you have proven worthy of it.

Xe'ra's Punishment
High Exarch Turalyon: I sense Xe'ra in the central chamber. Thank the Light! We are not too late.
Alleria Windrunner: And what then? I was locked in a cell for delving into the Void against her wishes. Will she make me a prisoner again? Or worse?
High Exarch Turalyon: Xe'ra will see that you risked your life to save her. Her faith in you will be restored--I know it!

The Crest of Knowledge
High Exarch Turalyon: Velen?
Prophet Velen: Forgive me, my son.
High Exarch Turalyon: Are you hurt?
Prophet Velen: I am unharmed.
Prophet Velen: Your arrival is timely. We must find the Crest of Knowledge before Talgath takes it beyond our reach.
High Exarch Turalyon: So he is here, then. I was afraid of this.

High Exarch Turalyon: We will escort Velen safely to the Crest.
High Exarch Turalyon: If you cover our retreat, we may just see this through.
High Exarch Turalyon: Lead the way, Prophet.
Prophet Velen: Make haste, my friends. Something dark and terrible stirs... and it is not Talgath.

Talgath: How unlike you, Velen, to stand your ground.
Talgath: A welcome change of pace, to be certain.
Prophet Velen: Talgath. We need not come to blows. I offer you one chance: Stand down.
Talgath: Still the pacifist, I see. Face me!

High Exarch Turalyon: We are with you, Velen.
Prophet Velen: Pheta thones gamera. Light, guide our path.

Talgath: Oh, how Kil'jaeden mourned for you! Do you know how deeply your departure wounded him?
Prophet Velen: I lost a beloved brother that day as well.

Talgath: You did not lose him. You gave it up--all of it! Your people, your planet... even your family!
Prophet Velen: I have not forgotten your betrayal!

Talgath: I only hoped they would give you a reason to stay. How cold of you, leaving without your mate and child.
Prophet Velen: Silence! You dare speak of them!
Talgath: Struck a nerve, did I?

Prophet Velen: This is your end. If there is a shred of goodness left in you, you will help us find the Crest of Knowledge.
Talgath: Hah! You are far too late. Nothing will escape the temple. Not even the Light itself.
Prophet Velen: I see. Safe journey, Talgath.

Prophet Velen: Come. I dare not tarry here.
High Exarch Turalyon: Talgath's last words... Not even the Light can escape. What did he mean?
Prophet Velen: The darkness that lingers in the temple... the shadow that looms over all of Mac'Aree... is L'ura.
High Exarch Turalyon: Impossible. She is a naaru! A being of the Light!
Prophet Velen: There is much Xe'ra did not want you to know.

Corrupted Titan
Aggramar: Mortals. I wasted millennia fighting to spare you from corruption. Until at last my eyes were opened to the truth.
Aggramar: You are the corruption. We will save the universe by wiping all memory of you from existence.
Aggramar: Soon comes the awakening of my brother, Argus. Together, our new Pantheon will join the master in breaking your fetid world. But you will not live to see it.

Silgyrn (Nightborne) and Liadrin 
Silgryn: In my entire lifetime, I never left the borders of Suramar. To see this place is to understand the fate that almost befell my people.
Lady Liadrin: And nearly mine as well. The sin'dorei also had a leader who struck a bargain with the Legion, poisoning us in the process.
Silgryn: An unbridled thirst for power is the most terrible corruption of all. How did your people find their path forward?
Lady Liadrin: We banded together to fight for our place on Azeroth. And we realized we needed allies to stand with us.
Silgryn: And has the Horde served that purpose for you?
Lady Liadrin: It has. Make no mistake, ours has not been an easy road, and we have struggled through dark times. But together we face a world that has often turned its back on us. Together, we find strength.
Silgryn: A valuable perspective, Lady Liadrin. You have given me much to ponder.

Magni’s Vision

Archmage Khadgar: Magni? Are you alright? Magni?
Magni Bronzebeard: A sword... in the darkness... sands... soaked in pain.
Magni Bronzebeard: The wound... burning... burning…
Magni Bronzebeard: He's fightin' through the pain... to let us see...
Magni Bronzebeard: The voice is alone... weak... but so beautiful!

The second leak is about Legion's next expansion. Blizzard added new icons and textures for questing gear related to a zone that doesn't exist yet, in a similar fashion how Goblins & Worgen were revealed through masks.

Spoiler

Players have turned their attention back to the Rise of the Naga Expansion from reddit, because in the latest build of Patch 7.3.0, Blizzard added new Kul Tiras questing armor. The texture reveals a map of a zone that doesn't exist yet and tentacles! So the next expansion is going to revolve around Azshara and the Old Golds (N'zoth). Is Jaina a Dreadlord Part 2? Check out Varimathras's Alliance quote above! You can find more details and screenshots of the armor over at MMO-Champion.

[Valhalen 1,484]

The "Jaina is a dreadlord theory" intensifies. I'm not sure how will I react if this turns out to be true. Jaina has always been one of my favorite characters in the lore, but would make a lot of sense if she actually died in Theramore and a Dreadlord took her place. Would be better than her being her and stabbing everyone in the backs.

[Dejo93 984]

28 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

The "Jaina is a dreadlord theory" intensifies. I'm not sure how will I react if this turns out to be true. Jaina has always been one of my favorite characters in the lore, but would make a lot of sense if she actually died in Theramore and a Dreadlord took her place. Would be better than her being her and stabbing everyone in the backs.

Meh, I think they'll go the route of hero-turned-villain by sorrow. Remember how much she lost in the last couple of years.

As for the new zones, I'd really like a new race as well. Been a while since we had one  :D

[FourEyedFoxie 16]

i think it looks more like Sylvannas is going to be a big bad character, rather than Jaina. Maybe both, who knows.

My theory ;) https://foxierowan.wordpress.com/2017/07/08/legion-theory-evil-sylvanas/

I sincerely hope the naga thing isn't true. Vashj'ir *shudder*  

Edited July 8, 2017 by Foxie12
adding a link

[positiv2 950]

2 hours ago, Valhalen said:

The "Jaina is a dreadlord theory" intensifies.

We all know Jaina is a Death Knight though - you can see it in the Hearthstone's new expansion trailer  But yeah, not sure whether to jump on the bandwagon, or to go 'nah' instead.

[BlakeArmentrout 29]

3 hours ago, Dejo93 said:

Meh, I think they'll go the route of hero-turned-villain by sorrow. Remember how much she lost in the last couple of years.

As for the new zones, I'd really like a new race as well. Been a while since we had one  :D

I would love a new race as well, always wanted to play as a Dragonoid from one of the remaining dragon flights, or if they do a Naga expansion let us play as Naga who defected to our side and let them be both horde or alliance like the Pandaren. Or Ogres would be kind of neat too I guess, if they don't make them pretty much giant orcs, or at the very least I think they should let us change the skin of orcs to be pure blood brown like Garrosh or Fel orcs, and the Tauren should get Moose like antlers to look more like the ones like Highmountain

Edited July 8, 2017 by BlakeArmentrout

[MrEdren 114]

I still say Jaina is queen Azshara. But now it sounds like Alleria is the new Big Bad. Interesting  

[MrEdren 114]

Am I the only one getting a captain sisko in the fire cave vibe with the whole jailer thing?

[Yridaa 490]

16 minutes ago, MrEdren said:

I still say Jaina is queen Azshara.

That makes even less sense than the Dreadlord theory. First of all this would have meant Jaina was the queen all this time (As opposed to a lackey of the Legion, which could simply have happened because of all the shit going on all the time), which would mean she wouldn't even have bothered with something like Tirisfall and simply been working as a neutral in Dalaran and keeping a relatively low profile instead of the lackey of Stormwind.

 

She even helped circumvent that Undercity was taken by Varimathras - something Queen Azshara would not have done (Why go against the Titan you swore your allegiance to and gives you all the power you want?)

She also wouldn't have bothered even a tiny bit with regards to Arthas, both as a love interest at first (Queen Azshara totally considers the human race to be far inferior to the Highborne) and Lich King as later. Despite of how much a bad ass the Lich King is and a threat to Azeroth, it pales in comparison to Queen Azshara both in power and army.

 

Lore-wise, you can have full Saronite armor that makes you immune to magic, but good luck with that against the elements and celestial magic (Let us not forget that Azshara was - by far - considered the strongest when it came to Arcane magic even before the powers of Sargeras). So pure spells wouldn't work against the armor, but good luck preventing a meteorite or star from absolutely murdering you. Quite similar as Illidan did during that instance where he used celestial/arcane magic to annihilate the giant infernal, except that Aszhara is a much stronger caster, again, before even getting Sargeras' power.

 

There are so many contradictory motives for Jaina to be Queen Azshara that it is more plausible that Uther was actually a Murloc in disguise.

 

Unless you think Archmage Antonidas, Archmage Khadgar, Archmage Modera and Archmage Aethas are not able to see through illusions, of course. Which is even more preposterous than your former assumption.

[Plergoth 277]

How do we know for certain it's Jaina he is referring to? To me, he is making clear suggestions of Sylvanas when I look at his Horde quotes; but could really mean anything, given that I think they seem to change their minds about the character development of any given character half way through an expansion. 

"Shattered mask"... Is exactly what the Forsaken coat of arms is. 

I'm intrigued by the possibility of Aszhara pretending to be Jaina. The Doomlord theory has some meat to it, but Blizzard doesn't have a track record of meeting fan expectations when it comes to the lore. They seem to prefer leaving behind entire factions, names and groups once they move onto a new expansion (see; the troll empires this expansion and last one) only to give them a major stage set once they feel it's time. 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Plergoth

[Stan 5,020]

1 hour ago, Plergoth said:

How do we know for certain it's Jaina he is referring to? To me, he is making clear suggestions of Sylvanas when I look at his Horde quotes; but could really mean anything, given that I think they seem to change their minds about the character development of any given character half way through an expansion. 

"Shattered mask"... Is exactly what the Forsaken coat of arms is. 

I'm intrigued by the possibility of Aszhara pretending to be Jaina. The Doomlord theory has some meat to it, but Blizzard doesn't have a track record of meeting fan expectations when it comes to the lore. They seem to prefer leaving behind entire factions, names and groups once they move onto a new expansion (see; the troll empires this expansion and last one) only to give them a major stage set once they feel it's time. 

The Alliance quote is about a female character that is obviously doing something evil unbeknownst to the Alliance... and the plan seems to be working out so well that the Alliance will only find out when it's already too late. I can't think of anyone, but Jaina. Sylvanas doesn't fit the scheme. How is the Banshee Queen betraying the Alliance? On the other hand, would you trust this guy? Jaina is definitely up to something. Judging by the leaked Kul Tiras armor, we're going to hear from her sooner or later.

[Relenquiem 0]

7 hours ago, Dejo93 said:

Meh, I think they'll go the route of hero-turned-villain by sorrow. Remember how much she lost in the last couple of years.

As for the new zones, I'd really like a new race as well. Been a while since we had one  :D

it's sad that i have to agree with this. just look at their other games. diablo- leiah goes from good to being evil, sc - kerrigan, ow - reaper goes from good to evil. they have a boner for doing stuff like that. granted, people can say leiah dies and whatnot, but the fact remains: the body goes from good to evil.

[solitha 84]

52 minutes ago, Stan said:

The Alliance quote is about a female character that is obviously doing something evil unbeknownst to the Alliance... and the plan seems to be working out so well that the Alliance will only find out when it's already too late. I can't think of anyone, but Jaina. Sylvanas doesn't fit the scheme. How is the Banshee Queen betraying the Alliance? On the other hand, would you trust this guy? Jaina is definitely up to something. Judging by the leaked Kul Tiras armor, we're going to hear from her sooner or later.

Hmm. This puts me in mind of the starting cinematic for Stormheim. The Skyfire was only supposed to engage with the Forsaken if the situation "demanded it". Instead, Genn and Admiral Rogers ordered a sneak attack. They disobeyed direct orders, got the Skyfire shot down, and Genn nearly died in his confrontation with Sylvanas.

Sylvanas planted those seeds some time ago, and she still has a big agenda to fulfill. She has the patience of the dead, and she plays a deep game. SHE doesn't have to betray... she merely has to set up the circumstances, such as with Genn, in which Alliance betrays Alliance, because each has its own thing to pursue.

Seeing it that way, Jaina could simply be another target - like Genn, peeled off from the Alliance and maneuvered to work against it.

[solitha 84]

8 hours ago, Valhalen said:

The "Jaina is a dreadlord theory" intensifies. I'm not sure how will I react if this turns out to be true. Jaina has always been one of my favorite characters in the lore, but would make a lot of sense if she actually died in Theramore and a Dreadlord took her place. Would be better than her being her and stabbing everyone in the backs.

It would make no sense, because it would invalidate a canon novel. Jaina has never acted like a dreadlord. She has, however, acted like a person whose world has been shattered, nearly shattered with it, recovered with help, and perhaps... perhaps the Old Gods found a platform, which would explain her more temperamental outbursts.

[Plergoth 277]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

The Alliance quote is about a female character that is obviously doing something evil unbeknownst to the Alliance... and the plan seems to be working out so well that the Alliance will only find out when it's already too late. I can't think of anyone, but Jaina. Sylvanas doesn't fit the scheme.

For me, it's 50/50. The way things people are explaining things, Jaina would only be the big bad or a plot protagonist if she isn't Jaina anymore, but was dead since the bombing of Theramore or shortly afterwards. I have absolutely no doubt we will hear from her in the next expansion as far as Kul Tiras development goes, but I remain unconvinced that she is the be all and end all. I'd be extremely apathetic towards Jaina herself being this tyrant, hellbent on vengeance, and willing to kill Alliance members. It just doesn't quite add up, and having her killed off, out of game context, retconning the events of canon book and subsequent implications, it's a bit too much for me. If she was a Dreadlord, they should have acted by now for the best chance of claiming victory for the Legion and gaining Sargeras' favour. The Azshara theory equally leaves me as dubious; why not just kill Anduin and the other leaders while they were in the throne room following Varian's death? It's made clear that she is virtually untouchable, and no body there should be able to stop her, and she was close enough to the sea for an escape or reinforcements afterwards. 

On the other hand, Varithmathras was Sylvanas' left hand for some time before his betrayal and the siege of Undercity; despite being the tortured, almost mad shadow of his former cunning, I think he has a better idea than most about how much we can trust Sylvanas. Sylvanas is similar in Jaina that she hasn't really had anything added to her current plot involvement since the start of Legion, and is notably absent from Argus as well; despite her long lost sister being accounted for as last. 

Old God corruption or influence seems like too much of a get out of jail free card as well. I'd rather see more realistic approaches to the personal agendas and grudges both Sylvanas and Jaina have, but without turning either into a killable raid boss. 

[Plergoth 277]

5 hours ago, MrEdren said:

I still say Jaina is queen Azshara. But now it sounds like Alleria is the new Big Bad. Interesting  

I'd say that it's more along the lines of Blizzard covering their bases and giving us a potential future NPC to come up again when we face the Void Lords; the Old Gods are their puppies. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Foxie12 said:

I sincerely hope the naga thing isn't true. Vashj'ir *shudder*  

Haha. That zone split the community down the middle, I think melee generally hated it more than anyone else. I loved it thoroughly though, it was probably the truest example of fantasy in a fantasy game and the music, the atmosphere and the questing was very well designed and it was both fun and relaxing to play through. Also, I am one of those weird people who dream of swimming more than flying. 

[Nazamber 38]

Here is the thing that kind of gets me a bit...and it seems it has been the theme so far with story telling. I am not going ruffle any feathers or start a debate on who between each faction has died...but the Varimathras quotes have me a little on edge. 

Let me highlight this first, I don't mind each faction losing their share of badass side characters or notable figures coming in a larger role....Story wise that bothers me is the debauchery that is happening with the Main Racial / Faction leaders.

1. Horde lost Cairne, Chieftan to the Tauren, in a book because the Horde's emo Faction Leader/ Orc Racial Representative decided to save Azeroth. (2 H - 0 Ally)

2. Alliance lost Magni to being crystallized (only to return as a Emissary for Azeroth (2 H - 1 Ally)

3.  Garrosh, successor to Thrall and murderer of Cairne, becomes the Faction / Racial leader (he ends up dying, 3 H - 1 Ally)

4. While WoD had no real affect on the Main Universe, no Faction Leader played a large role...but then comes Legion...

5. In order for alliance to lose Wyrnn, the horde had to lose Vol'jin... (4 H - 2 Ally)

6. Now...based on Varimathras's dialogue it looks like in order for the Alliance to have a corrupted Jaina...there has be a corrupted Sylvanas...which would also bring down...the Horde 5 Racial leaders to 2 Ally... 

I don't count Jaina as a Faction or Racial leader because of her dealing with the Kirin Tor...Varian and Anduin play as the main Faction and Racial leaders....(I am not calling for more ally deaths, but I think the next expac should be Azshara, Jaina..and that it...give Sylvanas issues at the end...or develop her story...better?

thoughts comments...please...

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Nazamber
typos

[Yridaa 490]

What about Antonidas, Kel'Thuzad, Uther the Lightbringer, Arthas, Terenas, Lothar and Tirion? Hell, you should count the entire High-Elf race too, since they got corrupted as well into Blood-Elves.

I could add an entire list of WC1-WC3 lore to the Ally tally but then you'd probably say "But that didn't happen in WoW".

 

You might already be willing do that but I'll keep my trump cards of Van-Cleef, Lady Prestor, Benedictus and a plethora more as well.

 

 

Not that this tally really matters, because leaders have - aside from Garrosh, Thrall and Tirion - very little significance in the grand scheme of things so far anyway when they were in power of their faction (With Sylvanas probably being added to that)

 

Besides that, all playable races are self-destructive in nature aside from the Night-elves and Tauren. Everything else deplete their resources, so they got it coming to them.

[Plergoth 277]

2 hours ago, Yridaa said:

Besides that, all playable races are self-destructive in nature aside from the Night-elves and Tauren. Everything else deplete their resources, so they got it coming to them.

The Night Elves are responsible for some of the biggest f ups in the history of Warcraft, even contemporary lore has them and their descendants and distant relatives in the Blood Elf ranks causing near apocalyptic things to happen. The Tauren seem to be the only only playable race that is fairly chill, with only tribes such as Bloodtotem causing problems in recent years. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Yridaa said:

Not that this tally really matters, because leaders have - aside from Garrosh, Thrall and Tirion - very little significance in the grand scheme of things so far anyway when they were in power of their faction (With Sylvanas probably being added to that)

I'm not so sure about this. Jaina played a huge part in the Orcs being allowed to thrive after they settled in Kalimdor and founded Orgrimmar. Varian was instrumental in the Siege of Undercity, notable presence during Pandaria, as well as being the kind of father to inspire his son to stop all out civil war break out with the Dwarf factions following Magni's crystallisation, and allowing the Horde to continue independently under the leadership of Vol'jin after Garrosh's demise. The Horde hasn't imploded under Sylvanas, so she's doing something right so far, on top of keeping her Forsaken alive. Not sure about Tirion's mention here; undoubtedly an important figure, but he was never an Alliance leader.  

Vol'jin feels like the odd one out though; he never really got a chance to do anything notable while he was Warchief except name his unexpected successor as he died from battle wounds. 

[FourEyedFoxie 16]

9 hours ago, Plergoth said:

 

 

Haha. That zone split the community down the middle, I think melee generally hated it more than anyone else. I loved it thoroughly though, it was probably the truest example of fantasy in a fantasy game and the music, the atmosphere and the questing was very well designed and it was both fun and relaxing to play through. Also, I am one of those weird people who dream of swimming more than flying. 

oh it definitely looked great, but playing through it was horrendous. I mained mage and hated every minute there and i don't think i ever went back again, other than when we did the all hunter shark raid :P 

[Maruken 31]

13 hours ago, Relenquiem said:

diablo- leiah goes from good to being evil

To be fair, Leah doesn't go evil in the same way Jaina could. Jaina's been slowly going insane over her hatred for the Horde and could turn on the Alliance as a result. Leah just gets possessed against her will.

[Nazamber 38]

On 7/9/2017 at 1:40 AM, Yridaa said:

What about Antonidas, Kel'Thuzad, Uther the Lightbringer, Arthas, Terenas, Lothar and Tirion? Hell, you should count the entire High-Elf race too, since they got corrupted as well into Blood-Elves.

I could add an entire list of WC1-WC3 lore to the Ally tally but then you'd probably say "But that didn't happen in WoW".

You might already be willing do that but I'll keep my trump cards of Van-Cleef, Lady Prestor, Benedictus and a plethora more as well.

You misread what I was getting at.

 

Uther was leader of the Knights of the Silver Hand, Arthas was Prince of Lordaeron and protege to Uther the alliance and uniting of North and South Human kingdoms wasn't really reforged as it was still fractured until the Scourge came...none of these were faction leaders I.E Leader of the Alliance and Warchief of the Horde and neither of them were Racial Leaders i.e. Sylvanas of the Forsaken, Baine Bloodhoof Chieftan of the Tauren or Tyrande Priestess to the Night Elves, Magni Bronzebeard Leader of Ironforge and the Dwarven Empire.

Which still concludes at Legion FL/RL Removals Horde: 4  | Alliance 2 and if new Expac follows suit...Horde 5 | Alliance 2.

Also, to say that none of these leaders have any impact?

There are many significant moments since the events of Reign of Chaos and to where we are now with how each leader has affected things.

 

[VaraTreledees 138]

On 7/8/2017 at 8:08 AM, Foxie12 said:

i think it looks more like Sylvannas is going to be a big bad character, rather than Jaina. Maybe both, who knows.

My theory ;) https://foxierowan.wordpress.com/2017/07/08/legion-theory-evil-sylvanas/

I sincerely hope the naga thing isn't true. Vashj'ir *shudder*  

Eh I doubt that syl will go villain, for one thing, we had like 2 or 3 entire expansions about the last time a horde guy went bad, so it has kind of been done, on top of that, the spirits selected her as the next warchief, so stuff should hopefully be happening with that, aaaaand almost all of the original horde leaders are now dead, or pretty uninspiring lore wise, I mean really compare what trade prince galywix does to gen greymane and not kael'thas to Velen.  Like as far as "cool lore characters" goes, horde doesn't have that many right now, where as alliance has. . . a ton.  It just makes very little sense to big bad syl right now.

[Valks 2,373]

On 8/27/2017 at 1:03 PM, VaraTreledees said:

Eh I doubt that syl will go villain, for one thing, we had like 2 or 3 entire expansions about the last time a horde guy went bad, so it has kind of been done, on top of that, the spirits selected her as the next warchief, so stuff should hopefully be happening with that, aaaaand almost all of the original horde leaders are now dead, or pretty uninspiring lore wise, I mean really compare what trade prince galywix does to gen greymane and not kael'thas to Velen.  Like as far as "cool lore characters" goes, horde doesn't have that many right now, where as alliance has. . . a ton.  It just makes very little sense to big bad syl right now.

Maybe we'll see something created between Alleria/Sylvanas to cause Sylvanas to go bad.

[VaraTreledees 138]

9 hours ago, Blainie said:

Maybe we'll see something created between Alleria/Sylvanas to cause Sylvanas to go bad.

Maybe.  Not saying there isn't an opportunity there, just that it doesn't make sense from a creative meta point of view.  Like most of the current horde leaders are pretty uninspiring.  A full half of the people who play wow probably only know thrall and syl, maybe baine.  Like, horde are short on bad asses and they are the faction known for them.

Edited September 4, 2017 by VaraTreledees