Vlad

Heroes of the Storm Fenix

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This thread is for comments about our Fenix build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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After having a few games with him, I have to say (God, I love him so much)) that the range difference between Weapon Mode: Phase BombWeapon Mode: Phase Bomb and Weapon Mode: Repeater CannonWeapon Mode: Repeater Cannon isn't THAT big to warrant a desire to stay in the former for 99,99% of the time, it doesn't feel THAT much safer. Also, I believe we are quick to judge the Warp-Repeater Cannon build with Warp ConduitWarp Conduit and Warp WarfareWarp Warfare ; faster attack speed will generate shields faster via Auxiliary ShieldsAuxiliary Shields and damage via Photonic WeaponryPhotonic Weaponry. Lastly, Adanium ShellAdanium Shell 's description seems kinda off since with this patch onwards, Armor also mitigates damage done to shields.

Edited by SteveFrost

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5 hours ago, SteveFrost said:

After having a few games with him, I have to say (God, I love him so much)) that the range difference between Weapon Mode: Phase BombWeapon Mode: Phase Bomb and Weapon Mode: Repeater CannonWeapon Mode: Repeater Cannon isn't THAT big to warrant a derire to stay in the former for 99,99% of the time, it doesn't feel THAT much safer. Also, I believe we are quick to judge the Warp-Repeater Cannon build with Warp ConduitWarp Conduit and Warp WarfareWarp Warfare ; faster attack speed will generate shields faster via Auxiliary ShieldsAuxiliary Shields and damage via Photonic WeaponryPhotonic Weaponry. Lastly, Adanium ShellAdanium Shell 's description seems kinda off since with this patch onwards, Armor also mitigates damage done to shields.

No need to explain. The posted build is clearly a meme build. 

Lvl 1: No problem. 
Lvl 4: Wouldnt call the rest of the tier unviable just because warp resets are good. 
Lvl 7: Seriously? Pure basic attacker and you decide that the best path is to take that pathetic 50% dmg buff on his 12s cd Q instead of 2 OP basic attack dmg buffs? 
Lvl 10: No problem. 

Lvl 13: No problem. 
Lvl 16: Did you see how fast tanks die after you WarpWarp-out with Warp WarfareWarp Warfare and Offensive CadenceOffensive Cadence? No? Go and try it out. 
Lvl 20 are pretty much all mediocre so no judging there.

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I'd like to note that Purification SalvoPurification Salvo will not fire if Fenix is silenced or stunned after locking on his opponents. I think this is worth adding to the Guide, because I found myself in a very infuriating match yesterday where a Stukov negated me so many kills with Lurking ArmLurking Arm.

Also, I think Offensive CadenceOffensive Cadence should be put as a situational talent; it synergizes absurdly well with Singularity ChargeSingularity Charge and Warp WarfareWarp Warfare, being specially strong in dual Warrior compositions.

I have a question for @Straften (or whoever can answer): does Divert Power: WeaponsDivert Power: Weapons take in consideration other sources of Shields that Fenix currently have? Say he is affected by Tassadar's Plasma ShieldPlasma Shield or Lúcio' Sound BarrierSound Barrier, and then activate the ability. Will this also drain the extra shield or only his passive shields from Shield CapacitorShield Capacitor? And if so, will it also enhance his Basic Attack damage? Because if so, I think that a Basic Attack Build could be viable, yet very niche because it would require Fenix to depend on specific team compositions to maximize its power. 

Overall, I'm loving Fenix. He has easily become one of my favorite characters in the game. I love characters that don't use mana, and even more I like those with strong waveclear and self-sustain.

Edited by Valhalen
Question on the third paragraph

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19 hours ago, Valhalen said:

I'd like to note that Purification SalvoPurification Salvo will not fire if Fenix is silenced or stunned after locking on his opponents. I think this is worth adding to the Guide, because I found myself in a very infuriating match yesterday where a Stukov negated me so many kills with Lurking ArmLurking Arm.

Also, I think Offensive CadenceOffensive Cadence should be put as a situational talent; it synergizes absurdly well with Singularity ChargeSingularity Charge and Warp WarfareWarp Warfare, being specially strong in dual Warrior compositions.

I have a question for @Straften (or whoever can answer): does Divert Power: WeaponsDivert Power: Weapons take in consideration other sources of Shields that Fenix currently have? Say he is affected by Tassadar's Plasma ShieldPlasma Shield or Lúcio' Sound BarrierSound Barrier, and then activate the ability. Will this also drain the extra shield or only his passive shields from Shield CapacitorShield Capacitor? And if so, will it also enhance his Basic Attack damage? Because if so, I think that a Basic Attack Build could be viable, yet very niche because it would require Fenix to depend on specific team compositions to maximize its power. 

Overall, I'm loving Fenix. He has easily become one of my favorite characters in the game. I love characters that don't use mana, and even more I like those with strong waveclear and self-sustain.

Nah. It says it depletes the shield from his trait, so it doesn't count any other shield type.

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What makes the radius of his Q get bigger?  I have only played 1 game with him and don't understand why sometimes it was larger.

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Arsenal Synergy, Energency Protocol, and Divert Power does some messy one shot wave clears consistently. Auxilliary Shields, Photonic Weaponry and Unconquered Spirit are my favourites for later levels with this combo.

But Mobile Offense, + all three Warp Talents is a pretty simple and effective combo too. The cutter's slow untalented is really useful to secure attacks. Throw in Offensive Cadence and Singularity Charge to finish. You can also chage out some Warp Talents for Target Acquired, Divert Power, and Auxilliery Shields. But you are less capable of escape if you do and must finish kills in this combo.

The Plasma Cutter talents aren't too bad when you have proper support. But your Warps cancel it and you have to wait for cooldown after. So you either takes lots of damage using it or you are disabling your own ability. Same goes for the Salvo Ult. Just too easily disrupted by you or others.

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Emergency Protocol is actually the best pick at level 4 because combined with Divert Power: Weapons you're able to have an activatable sprint with a 20-second cooldown. This will save your life all the time when split pushing or just needing movement speed. It's also great for hunting someone down because you'll get movement speed and attack speed upon activation.

Definitely, recommend you all try that out. You can watch me using this build here: https://www.twitch.tv/toyhouze

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On 29/3/2018 at 12:07 AM, xevex said:

No need to explain. The posted build is clearly a meme build. 

Lvl 1: No problem. 
Lvl 4: Wouldnt call the rest of the tier unviable just because warp resets are good. 
Lvl 7: Seriously? Pure basic attacker and you decide that the best path is to take that pathetic 50% dmg buff on his 12s cd Q instead of 2 OP basic attack dmg buffs? 
Lvl 10: No problem. 

Lvl 13: No problem. 
Lvl 16: Did you see how fast tanks die after you WarpWarp-out with Warp WarfareWarp Warfare and Offensive CadenceOffensive Cadence? No? Go and try it out. 
Lvl 20 are pretty much all mediocre so no judging there.

Yeah, seems to me this guide is trying to make you think he's (and build him like) an ability user while he's obviously an auto-attacker. His abilities CAN dish out tons of damage but they're cd gated.

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Warp Conduit Icon Warp Conduit allows you to use Warp aggressively when you are certain it will result in a kill, because you will be able to Warp back to safety when Warp's cooldown is reset. You can also Warp away after you scan with Purification Salvo Icon Purification Salvo; if a takedown occurs, you can quickly rejoin the fight with Warp's reset.

Warp Warfare Icon Warp Warfare encourages aggressive use of Warp. Even when looking at a low Health enemy who can be quickly killed, it is not always a good idea to Warp in. Fenix can die very quickly if he is caught, and aggressive Warps can leave you overextended with no way to get out. 

WHAT?! On one hand you say a talent is good because it allows for aggressive plays, on the other hand you say another talent is bad because it encourages aggressive plays. Like WTF?

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I'd like to thank everyone for the enthusiastic comments, you guys are amazing. I will respond to a few of them here!

On 3/31/2018 at 10:55 AM, SteveFrost said:

Yeah, seems to me this guide is trying to make you think he's (and build him like) an ability user while he's obviously an auto-attacker. His abilities CAN dish out tons of damage but they're cd gated.

I agree that his kit seems to be designed around delivering Basic Attacks. I hope that as the meta changes, his Basic Attack Talents will become stronger options. However at this time of this post, Plasma CutterPlasma Cutter is one of the most impactful abilities in the game.

After the first part of Advanced Targeting is complete, a single cast of Plasma Cutter circles Fenix 3 times. It can do so with a huge radius, and getting hit by the beam deals damage and slows for 4 seconds. Think about this: Plasma Cutter's slow has the same strength and duration as Jaina's FrostbiteFrostbite, but it  is much easier to hit enemies with than her abilities are. It isn't at all uncommon to hit the entire enemy team with a single cast during team fights. His Basic Attacks are strong, but the optimal time to deliver them is while enemies are being oppressed by Plasma Cutter. 

As with any build, the one listed here is a starting point. You can play Heroes however you like, and if you prefer something other than the listed builds, that is fine. The listed builds are simply commonly seen, and will serve you well in most games. For now Fenix is  grossly over-tuned, and you can probably find success with any build you like. We can expect nerfs to hit him on Tuesday; I'm surprised that Blizzard has not done so already.

13 hours ago, ShadowerDerek said:

Warp Conduit Icon Warp Conduit allows you to use Warp aggressively when you are certain it will result in a kill, because you will be able to Warp back to safety when Warp's cooldown is reset. You can also Warp away after you scan with Purification Salvo Icon Purification Salvo; if a takedown occurs, you can quickly rejoin the fight with Warp's reset.

Warp Warfare Icon Warp Warfare encourages aggressive use of Warp. Even when looking at a low Health enemy who can be quickly killed, it is not always a good idea to Warp in. Fenix can die very quickly if he is caught, and aggressive Warps can leave you overextended with no way to get out. 

WHAT?! On one hand you say a talent is good because it allows for aggressive plays, on the other hand you say another talent is bad because it encourages aggressive plays. Like WTF?

The key words here are "when you are certain it will result in a kill". If you are able to reset Warp's cooldown, then you can Warp back out. If you do not have Warp Conduit and you choose to Warp aggressively, you will have no escape. 

I will reword the sentences to make this more clear.

On 3/30/2018 at 7:15 PM, Toyhouze said:

Emergency Protocol is actually the best pick at level 4 because combined with Divert Power: Weapons you're able to have an activatable sprint with a 20-second cooldown. This will save your life all the time when split pushing or just needing movement speed. It's also great for hunting someone down because you'll get movement speed and attack speed upon activation.

Definitely, recommend you all try that out. You can watch me using this build here: https://www.twitch.tv/toyhouze

I agree. Now that I've been able to test Fenix more accurately on the live servers, it is clear that Emergency ProtocolEmergency Protocol is currently the best option.

 

See you all in the Nexus :)

 

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2 hours ago, Straften said:

I agree that his kit seems to be designed around delivering Basic Attacks. I hope that as the meta changes, his Basic Attack Talents will become stronger options. However at this time of this post, Plasma CutterPlasma Cutter is one of the most impactful abilities in the game.

I completely agree. If anything, I'd say Fenix is a mix of both, akin to Zul'jin specced in Twin Cleave. Fenix has an absurdly strong zoning and poke , and Plasma Cutter fulfill this role alongside his Basic Attacks.

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15 hours ago, Straften said:

I'd like to thank everyone for the enthusiastic comments, you guys are amazing. I will respond to a few of them here!

I agree that his kit seems to be designed around delivering Basic Attacks. I hope that as the meta changes, his Basic Attack Talents will become stronger options. However at this time of this post, Plasma CutterPlasma Cutter is one of the most impactful abilities in the game.

After the first part of Advanced Targeting is complete, a single cast of Plasma Cutter circles Fenix 3 times. It can do so with a huge radius, and getting hit by the beam deals damage and slows for 4 seconds. Think about this: Plasma Cutter's slow has the same strength and duration as Jaina's FrostbiteFrostbite, but it  is much easier to hit enemies with than her abilities are. It isn't at all uncommon to hit the entire enemy team with a single cast during team fights. His Basic Attacks are strong, but the optimal time to deliver them is while enemies are being oppressed by Plasma Cutter. 

As with any build, the one listed here is a starting point. You can play Heroes however you like, and if you prefer something other than the listed builds, that is fine. The listed builds are simply commonly seen, and will serve you well in most games. For now Fenix is  grossly over-tuned, and you can probably find success with any build you like. We can expect nerfs to hit him on Tuesday; I'm surprised that Blizzard has not done so already.

Sorry if I gave the impression I'm bashing, that was clearly not my goal (plus you seem like a really nice guy).

If there are many melee/short ranged Heroes on enemy team, then sure Plasma CutterPlasma Cutter and its associated talents can pay dividends, If they can safely avoid it and/or outrange it tho, not really. Of course you should try to make the most of it whenever it is off cd but that cd is big to begin with so relying on it can be problematic imho. Tell you the truth, some games I almost forget that ability exists (use it much fewer times than I should/it's possible) and still I get most damage/MVP in the end lul.

I like  Advanced TargetingAdvanced Targeting level 1 cause it gives you bonus flat AD, which is the best early and later on, you get the % increase with Photonic WeaponryPhotonic Weaponry which is best for late game. I believe his auto-attack build is already in a pretty good spot already, at least it works for me. For sure however, having many builds that can work adds a lot to the fun of playing the Hero and his overall experience. He may get nerfed (especially if he becomes meta in HGC), I hope they don't hurt him too much :v

Edited by SteveFrost

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5 hours ago, SteveFrost said:

Sorry if I gave the impression I'm bashing, that was clearly not my goal (plus you seem like a really nice guy).

If there are many melee/short ranged Heroes on enemy team, then sure Plasma CutterPlasma Cutter and its associated talents can pay dividends, If they can safely avoid it and/or outrange it tho, not really. Of course you should try to make the most of it whenever it is off cd but that cd is big to begin with so relying on it can be problematic imho. Tell you the truth, some games I almost forget that ability exists (use it much fewer times that I should/it's possible) and still I get most damage/MVP in the end lul.

I like  Advanced TargetingAdvanced Targeting level 1 cause it gives you bonus flat AD, which is the best early and later on, you get the % increase with Photonic WeaponryPhotonic Weaponry which is best for late game. I believe his auto-attack build is already in a pretty good spot already, at least it works for me. For sure however, having many builds that can work adds a lot to the fun of playing the Hero and his overall experience. He may get nerfed (especially if he becomes meta in HGC), I hope they don't hurt him too much :v

Photonic WeaponryPhotonic Weaponry is awesome, but I'm a huge sucker for CDR talents; I find Arsenal OverchargeArsenal Overcharge hard to top, specially since it affects his Heroic Abilities. Combine this with Singularity ChargeSingularity Charge and you'll go ballistic!

I honestly don't think he needs to be nerfed that much, but it is inevitable. Most new Heroes are considered OP because people don't know how to handle them. I can say that Fenix is a bit overtuned, but he is not broken. Maybe increasing the CD on his warp is enough, but I feel they will also nerf his damage across the board, and probably also increase the CD of his Shield CapacitorShield Capacitor.

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4 hours ago, Valhalen said:

Photonic WeaponryPhotonic Weaponry is awesome, but I'm a huge sucker for CDR talents; I find Arsenal OverchargeArsenal Overcharge hard to top, specially since it affects his Heroic Abilities. Combine this with Singularity ChargeSingularity Charge and you'll go ballistic!

I honestly don't think he needs to be nerfed that much, but it is inevitable. Most new Heroes are considered OP because people don't know how to handle them. I can say that Fenix is a bit overtuned, but he is not broken. Maybe increasing the CD on his warp is enough, but I feel they will also nerf his damage across the board, and probably also increase the CD of his Shield CapacitorShield Capacitor.

The good thing with Photonic WeaponryPhotonic Weaponry is that it works for ALL damage, not just auto attacks, including Heroics.  The bad thing about Arsenal OverchargeArsenal Overcharge imho is that it comes far too late in the tree if you really wanna go for that build; similar talents like say Blessed MomentumBlessed Momentum come at level 7 at most (at least for the Heroes I play and know that have one). It's great that it also reduces the cd for Heroics like you said but still, it doesn't outweigh the above imo. 

We've seen the full spectrum of nerfs thus far; from being nerfed to oblivion (Tyrael pre-rework) to the other end of joke "nerfs" (Genji/Hanzo). Making him more cd-gated would seem reasonable imho. Or take away either his early or late game power (part of). Just hope they don't just go plain removing good talents leaving him with fewer and fewer options.

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39 minutes ago, SteveFrost said:

The good thing with Photonic WeaponryPhotonic Weaponry is that it works for ALL damage, not just auto attacks, including Heroics.  The bad thing about Arsenal OverchargeArsenal Overcharge imho is that it comes far too late in the tree if you really wanna go for that build; similar talents like say Blessed MomentumBlessed Momentum come at level 7 at most (at least for the Heroes I play and know that have one). It's great that it also reduces the cd for Heroics like you said but still, it doesn't outweigh the above imo.

Indeed it comes late in the game, but the CDR plays a major role in teamfights, though. You can fire your Heroic, go solo some Mercs, and then get ready for more.

39 minutes ago, SteveFrost said:

We've seen the full spectrum of nerfs thus far; from being nerfed to oblivion (Tyrael pre-rework) to the other end of joke "nerfs" (Genji/Hanzo). Making him more cd-gated would seem reasonable imho. Or take away either his early or late game power (part of). Just hope they don't just go plain removing good talents leaving him with fewer and fewer options.

Yeah, I'll be really disappointed if they just nerfhammer him in every aspect. He is supposed to function like that. And honestly, I don't think is a hyper-carry character (unlike the Super Shimada Bros. or say). He can duel most Heroes in the game due his trait, without a doubt, however, he is made for teamfights.

One nerf I think it'll happen is Plasma CutterPlasma Cutter dealing 50% damage on Structures, because he has more sieging power than most Specialists.

Edited by Valhalen

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So I decided to try out Arsenal SynergyArsenal Synergy myself cause I see it being the go-to pick right now in MSB, must say it didn't really fill my eye but boy is it strong

Edited by SteveFrost

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4 hours ago, SteveFrost said:

So I decided to try out Arsenal SynergyArsenal Synergy myself cause I see it being the go-to pick right now in MSB, must say it didn't really fill my eye but boy is it strong

It is easy to unleash once you get the hang of Fenix's Basic Attacks. The damage is really eye-watering.

But I still think that Advanced TargetingAdvanced Targeting is the undisputed king. It has so much potential as it increases Fenix attack power progressively plus the additional circling of Plasma CutterPlasma Cutter, making him a monster in the endgame.

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20 hours ago, Valhalen said:

It is easy to unleash once you get the hang of Fenix's Basic Attacks. The damage is really eye-watering.

But I still think that Advanced TargetingAdvanced Targeting is the undisputed king. It has so much potential as it increases Fenix attack power progressively plus the additional circling of Plasma CutterPlasma Cutter, making him a monster in the endgame.

The damage it does even at level 1, even to tanks is absurd. It leaves an entire minion wave from full HP to 1. I like Advanced TargetingAdvanced Targeting too, for reasons I explain above, but in smaller maps where games tend to be shorter, Arsenal SynergyArsenal Synergy probably is the better choice

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