Blainie

Survival Hunter 8.0.1

41 posts in this topic

This thread is for comments about our Survival Hunter guide for the Battle for Azeroth pre-patch.

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Would love to see hunters have dual wield again!

 

That being said....while toying with the azerite armor I had some enjoyment in the harpoon build.  It increased your focus regen and next raptor strike (or mongoose) by X amount.  Disengage and immediately harpoon on CD for quick focus regen and more raptor/mongoose hits.

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'Mongoose Bite Icon Mongoose Bite is not recommended for any particular situation. Mongoose Bite simply does not do enough damage compared to the bonuses of Tip of the Spear and damage of Flanking Strike.'

'When using the recommended talent Mongoose Bite Icon Mongoose Bite,'

 

So Which is it? In the Builds it shows mongoose bite not being recommended, but in rotation it shows it as recommended.

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It is not recommended, I failed to update that line in the rotation to reflect this change (Mongoose Bite just got nerfed). Fixed in next update!

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54 minutes ago, Guest dgfhdgfhgfthj said:

missing scalehide family (as ferocity)

This will also be fixed in the next update, thanks!

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For the last talent choice I think Chakrams needs to be labeled as viable, I ran some sims comparing the numbers and it is almost identical to other setups. The guide says the Chakrams are a high resource cost but they aren't. Not only do they deal significantly more damage than Raptor Strike does, but it costs the -exact same- amount of focus, yet the guide says it's focus intensive. Shouldn't be x'd off, doesn't make any sense. I also don't think saying Chakrams makes the rotation more complex is a fair argument because it's a 4 button rotation by itself, and having to press an extra button every 20 seconds really isn't that hard at all. 

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Hey! The way I go about ranking talents is 1) DPS potential and 2) ease of play/optimal use.

Chakrams, in an ideal situation, is inferior (if only slightly) to the other two options in their preferred disciplines. On top of that, it is slightly harder to use. I know that pressing a new button on cooldown every 20 seconds isn't hard, but it is still more than not doing anything at all (Birds of Prey does not really change your rotation, and Wildfire Infusion just makes it easier, if anything).

It adds an additional button to the rotation while the other choices enhance buttons you press anyway.

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I have not had a chance to sim yet but it seems a high mastery focus and mongoose bite build would be very strong on dmg. Will you be looking at stat priorities againbecause even with the tip of the spear and raptor strike, mastery still impacts them significantly.

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So i have been playing a bit around with survival hunter, and to me it seems that mongoose bite, with alpha predator, yields better results than the talents you have recommended, might that be because of my gear, or is there another reason?

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8 hours ago, Guest Bigboiorsomething said:

So i have been playing a bit around with survival hunter, and to me it seems that mongoose bite, with alpha predator, yields better results than the talents you have recommended, might that be because of my gear, or is there another reason?

Well it's hard to say without you providing the details of your testing. There's nothing at all that indicates Alpha Predator is better than Viper's Venom. Mongoose Bite can beat Tip of the Spear without T21 however.

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10 hours ago, Guest Rocky18999 said:

I have not had a chance to sim yet but it seems a high mastery focus and mongoose bite build would be very strong on dmg. Will you be looking at stat priorities againbecause even with the tip of the spear and raptor strike, mastery still impacts them significantly.

Mastery is a terrible stat no matter which talents you choose. There is no (current) universe where high Mastery is a good thing.

This doesn't really make sense either. Mastery affects Raptor Strike and Mongoose Bite the same. There's nothing about it that would prefer Mongoose Bite.

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Why is mastery a bad stat?  It directly buffs Raptor Strike, which I assume is the main attack for a survival hunter.  It also seems to scale well with gear.

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Mastery is a stat on gear, therefore it can't really scale "with" gear, unless you mean it scales well with Agility, which is not the case (at least it does not scale any better than other stats).

It buffs Raptor Strike, yes, it just doesn't buff it enough. Every one of the other stats also buff Raptor Strike. Crit and Vers directly, Haste indirectly.

Haste is almost twice as good as Mastery per point. It takes way too much Mastery to get the same damage increase as Haste for a much lesser amount.

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No, I mean per 1% of mastery, it seems to take less points, when compared to the other three stats.  Therefore, when I say scaling with gear, I mean if you get a piece with mastery on it, you're gonna get more out of it %wise than the others.  I'm not saying its the highest stat, I can see the value of haste, but I think it should be on par with crit and above vers.

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14 hours ago, Guest I'm a Guest Duh said:

No, I mean per 1% of mastery, it seems to take less points, when compared to the other three stats.  Therefore, when I say scaling with gear, I mean if you get a piece with mastery on it, you're gonna get more out of it %wise than the others.  I'm not saying its the highest stat, I can see the value of haste, but I think it should be on par with crit and above vers.

You need 10.7 Mastery to increase the damage done by your spenders by 1%. With BiS gear, spenders only make up about 50% of your total damage. You therefore need 21.4 Mastery to increase your overall damage by 1%.

Meanwhile, you need 16.6 Haste to increase your Haste by 1%. A 1% increase to Haste is a 1% flat increase to your overall damage. Now add its other benefits to the rotation, making Serpent Sting shorter, more Focus generated through KC, and so on, and it is tons better.

Similarly, you need 20.8 Versatility to increase your damage by a flat 1%.

Now add the fact that Mastery (and all stats) value tapers off the more you have of it. With decent gear I have over 50-60% Mastery, but way less Haste, Vers and Crit from a pure % perspective, making them much better for me per point.

Mastery simply isn't that good.

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The guide says to use wildfire bomb on CD, they seem to refresh duration. Is it better to stagger them to allow for recharges and maximum uptime?

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18 hours ago, Guest Scrandom said:

The guide says to use wildfire bomb on CD, they seem to refresh duration. Is it better to stagger them to allow for recharges and maximum uptime?

It is, the guide will be updated to reflect that change.

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hi there, I was wondering why exactly the Celerity cloak is considered the best leggo for surv... is it for the +2% haste?  Sephuz does exactly the same if not more plus it has the minor bloodlust boost whenever you interrupt, slow anything.

I'm not questioning your knowledge, its just i would like some clarification on why certain leggos are considered better then others.

tyvm! love reading your guides!

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On 7/24/2018 at 3:30 PM, Guest Halek-Tarren Mill said:

hi there, I was wondering why exactly the Celerity cloak is considered the best leggo for surv... is it for the +2% haste?  Sephuz does exactly the same if not more plus it has the minor bloodlust boost whenever you interrupt, slow anything.

So, the Cloak actually gives 3% Haste, not 2% (the tooltip is wrong, but the description is correct). This means, when you can't proc Sephuz, it is the better choice (Sephuz only gives 2%). If you can proc Sephuz consistently, then it will outperform the cloak.

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Hi, ive commented in your mm guide for legion a few times. I have a very hasty gear set (32%) but I cant seem to catch up to my marksman dps. My weapon for mm is 235ish and for survival is 205ish. I seem to run out of focus a lot and tend have down time when i dont have enough focus for serpent sting or raptor strike and kill command still has a full second or 2 of cooldown. Can this down time be fixed with more haste? is there a soft or hard cap for haste?

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You're probably not going to beat your MM spec with such a big weapon item level difference. 

More Haste does not fix any of Survival's focus issues, but if you press Kill Command on cooldown whenever you have a Focus deficit then you should have absolutely no problem casting everything on cooldown and still Raptor Striking a healthy amount. There are no Haste caps for Survival. 

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I'm interested to see how the changes to SS now being able to crit may increase the worth of crit % over vers. Hypothetically, in a situation with Hydras bite it may become more useful, as you're relying on SS for a fair whack of your overall AoE pressure.

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Hello there!

I have a question about the race comparison.

Following your stats priority, why Blood Elves (1%crit chance) are on top of other races such as goblins (with 1%haste) or highmountain taurens (1%versa) ? Thank you for the help and the guides!

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