Blainie

Protection Paladin 8.0.1

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This thread is for comments about our Protection Paladin guide for the Battle for Azeroth pre-patch.

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1 hour ago, Guest Jesilyn said:

Missing PvP Talents (War Mode) section

I believe it's on the list of things to-do, but I'll check with Treckie!

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I'm both going to miss and yet be delighted to finally take this legendary helm off that's been BiS all expansion...

I'm also disappointed that somehow Retribution Aura just got totally missed/ignored by Blizzard.   Does this (extremely bad) talent have Tenure or something?

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20 hours ago, Migol said:

I'm both going to miss and yet be delighted to finally take this legendary helm off that's been BiS all expansion...

I'm also disappointed that somehow Retribution Aura just got totally missed/ignored by Blizzard.   Does this (extremely bad) talent have Tenure or something?

There's probably some spaghetti code somewhere that means they can never fix, change or remove it. It's there forever, always doomed.

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PVP war mode talent lists Inquisition as an option for prot. I don't think that's correct.

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On 8/2/2018 at 6:08 PM, Migol said:

I'm both going to miss and yet be delighted to finally take this legendary helm off that's been BiS all expansion...

I'm also disappointed that somehow Retribution Aura just got totally missed/ignored by Blizzard.   Does this (extremely bad) talent have Tenure or something?

Helm has been amazing defensively that's for sure, Light of the Protector is definitely taking a bit of a back seat for BfA, but kind of wish we had a way to have two charges anyway.

Retribution Aura WAS buffed recently on beta (right before pre-patch hit) but still incredibly low impact, not quite sure what their intention with that talent is tbh.

1 hour ago, Guest Cyzin said:

PVP war mode talent lists Inquisition as an option for prot. I don't think that's correct.

The War mode talent we have that is described IS called Inquisition, exactly like the ret spell. And the text following it is correct. It is however correct that it's linking to the retribution ability, which is not intended. Thanks, and expect that to be fixed soon 😄

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Is already known how impactful is Block stat or Armor defensively (shields, forma example) in comparison with Haste/Vers/Mastery??

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Correct me if I'm wrong, or if someone could explain. But I've been reading a lot about protection paladin's recently just as a returning player. And a lot of people have been saying versatility is more important than mastery. But in the guide it states mastery is to be prioritized over versatility. 

Could anyone help me understand? I'm a returning player and was never really that knowledgeable with WoW information prior to returning anyways. Thanks.

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20 hours ago, Guest Zinfé said:

Is already known how impactful is Block stat or Armor defensively (shields, forma example) in comparison with Haste/Vers/Mastery??

If you mean by looking at different shield upgrades (as it is the only way to really get block value), a higher itemlevel shield should always be better due to the armor, block, and stats.

 

6 hours ago, Guest ShamanicTV said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, or if someone could explain. But I've been reading a lot about protection paladin's recently just as a returning player. And a lot of people have been saying versatility is more important than mastery. But in the guide it states mastery is to be prioritized over versatility. 

Could anyone help me understand? I'm a returning player and was never really that knowledgeable with WoW information prior to returning anyways. Thanks.

Both Mastery and Versatility are extremely close in terms of defensive value. Since Mastery reduces all damage taken when standing in consecrate, it basically does the exact same thing as versatility just ever so slightly weaker, however due to us almost always playing Holy Shield at the moment we get a little bit of extra survivability from Mastery in form of block. You also have to remember that even if Versatility should be prioritized below Mastery, 120 Versatility would still always win over 100 Mastery, but if you can choose between 100 Mastery or 100 Versatility you would generally prefer the Mastery.

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Multiple instances of Inspiring Vanguard may not increase the proc chance, but it does increase the stat buff

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13 minutes ago, Guest Crunchy said:

Multiple instances of Inspiring Vanguard may not increase the proc chance, but it does increase the stat buff

Yes, as the guide states. Multiple of this trait does NOT increase the chance to proc.

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From the talent section, 45 row: 

"Repentance Icon Repentance has its uses, in cases where you want to crowd control some important add in a trash pack, or maybe an important add on a boss fight. You can also use Repentance to skip and run past mobs, as they can not be body pulled at all while under the effect."

Testing in dungeons has shown that you definitely get in combat by walking too close to a repented mob, maybe around 15y range? I dont know if this is something that has changed since Legion since I didnt have a pala at 110, but repentance definitely doesnt have the no body pull-functionality of sap and the Dh fishtank.

 

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On 8/26/2018 at 4:08 AM, Guest Kamp said:

Testing in dungeons has shown that you definitely get in combat by walking too close to a repented mob, maybe around 15y range? I dont know if this is something that has changed since Legion since I didnt have a pala at 110, but repentance definitely doesnt have the no body pull-functionality of sap and the Dh fishtank.

 

Good catch!
This is definitely one of the undocumented changes from Legion.
I'll update the guide to reflect this change.

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Am i the only one who priorities crit over anything? My parry is off the roof and i dont really see the point in refreshing your spells as often as you make us believe is usefull

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On 9/4/2018 at 6:19 PM, Guest Filip said:

Am i the only one who priorities crit over anything? My parry is off the roof and i dont really see the point in refreshing your spells as often as you make us believe is usefull

all about that Haste

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So I'm totally new to the Paladin and I've been using Ask Mr. Robot's addon/website for gearing suggestions/aid.  Question: Why would the addon be telling me to go for Swirling Sands over the Inspiring Vanguard azerite trait?  I've attached an image showing what it's having me do based on what's in my bags at the moment.

Any pointers as to what's going on would be greatly appreciated.  

Screenshot (69).png

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On 9/5/2018 at 3:19 AM, Guest Filip said:

Am i the only one who priorities crit over anything? My parry is off the roof and i dont really see the point in refreshing your spells as often as you make us believe is usefull

Parry is a very unreliable source of damage reduction, and even when stacking a lot, you have a very high chance to still take 3 hits in a row without parrying the hits. Due to this, it's better to make sure that either you have Active mitigation up more often (haste) or you reliably take less damage with versatility/mastery. Reliable damage intake is a lot more important than overall less damage taken.

10 hours ago, Guest Vallius said:

So I'm totally new to the Paladin and I've been using Ask Mr. Robot's addon/website for gearing suggestions/aid.  Question: Why would the addon be telling me to go for Swirling Sands over the Inspiring Vanguard azerite trait?  I've attached an image showing what it's having me do based on what's in my bags at the moment.

Unfortunately, we can not recommend using Ask Mr Robot's website for gearing defensively as they are prioritising the wrong stats. Similar to my mention above, they value avoiding damage and taking less damage over the whole course of the fight instead of taking smooth damage, which makes you predictable in damage intake and easier to stay alive.
There is no real ranking survivability  wise for traits, other than make sure you have 1x Inspiring Vanguard if you are running Crusader's Judgment, and try to stack ablative shielding and Gemhide as much as you can. Everything else is just some Strength or secondary stats that doesn't matter too much.

 

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Yeah, it's been very awkward trying to figure out a gearing path with all the ridiculous Azerite traits and trinkets we have now.  Thank you for the input, sir/madam.  I'll keep it simple on the Pally going forward.

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If I need to remove and choose between Tradewinds and Tidal Surge so I can have place for Soaring Shield, which one I need less ?

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Hi

I am a returning player from WOTLK expansion. There has been a lot of changes since then and one thing always makes me question everything - Haste. Everyone is saying that it is the stat to stack and when I ask why either I get trash talk or at best I get the regular answear - it decreases CDs. Ok I get that it takes it closer to spam the skills faster, keeping up the mitigation and so on and so forth BUT I always see this as pointless when nothing else is gained statwise apart from the default stats gained from gear? Not sure how to explain it more clearly but I am going to give it a try.

Basicaly if X is the defensive stat from default gear (no enchantments, gems etc) and you have a skill that increases it by certain amount (or by %) - haste would make it useable more often lets say 3 times per min for the sake of the example. I would rather have X+Y (Y -  defensive stats from gems, enchants etc.) up 2 times per min when the big damage spikes are incoming but makes me more meatier overall when the skill is on CD giving me more time to focus on other parts of the fight (damage, mechanics, threat managment etc.)

In your guide you are stating that it is used for Shield of the Righteous IconShield of the Righteous CD reduction so making its uptime more often as a primary reason.  First of all as I understand you cant have it up all the time and 2nd it only gives armor boost that decreases physical damage and from my experience so far in the game the magic damage from casters, curses, debufs etc. is the dangerous bit that causes the deaths.

Mastery and Versality decreases damage in overall making it more apealing in my eyes (with mastery needing Consecration IconConsecration but this spells CD can make it spammable without haste).  Str would increase damage overall making the fights go quicker also gives block chance.

I would personaly go for stamina, leech or any other defensive stat all the way but sadly these stats are no available in gems/enchants. This also goes for every other class and spec I play like DPS. I would rather hit them twice per min that does damage then slap them with wet noodles 3-4 times per min.

I am sorry if this does not make sense. I rewrote parts of it few times to make it as clear as possible. I am nowhere near any kind of progressive raider not I question your knowledge. I am questioning Haste as a stat in general.

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On 9/13/2018 at 12:46 AM, Guest Vedaria said:

https://www.wowhead.com/item=161419 What is your opinnion about this for Paladin Protection?

Apologize for the late reply, and it's an OK trinket, but nothing amazing. def use if you got nothing else on that ilvl.

On 9/26/2018 at 2:02 PM, Metztli said:

If I need to remove and choose between Tradewinds and Tidal Surge so I can have place for Soaring Shield, which one I need less ?

Tidal surge is nothing but damage, so defensively it would be the first one to go, but Tidal surge should be better than Tradewinds in general for damage output. If that is the only tradeoff, I'd remove Tidal surge though.

On 9/26/2018 at 9:01 PM, Guest Wondering said:

In your guide you are stating that it is used for Shield of the Righteous IconShield of the Righteous CD reduction so making its uptime more often as a primary reason.  First of all as I understand you cant have it up all the time and 2nd it only gives armor boost that decreases physical damage and from my experience so far in the game the magic damage from casters, curses, debufs etc. is the dangerous bit that causes the deaths.

Mastery and Versality decreases damage in overall making it more apealing in my eyes (with mastery needing Consecration IconConsecration but this spells CD can make it spammable without haste).  Str would increase damage overall making the fights go quicker also gives block chance.

I would personaly go for stamina, leech or any other defensive stat all the way but sadly these stats are no available in gems/enchants. This also goes for every other class and spec I play like DPS. I would rather hit them twice per min that does damage then slap them with wet noodles 3-4 times per min.

Hey, your post makes sense, and I understand where you are coming from, and in certain cases, you're definitely not wrong, but let me try to clarify a bit for you.

Haste is so good cause it allows you to be more flexible with SotR usage, this means that you can choose When to use it a lot more often. Tank damage does NOT only come in timed bursts, but often you take straight up auto attack damage that is super high as well. The more haste, the more of these you can cover with SotR. Stacking other stats will guarantee a very small amount of damage reduction, and it's not like haste is 10x better than all other stats, all stats are good, but given the opportunity to have a little more of one than another, you'd want to go haste.

You are 100% right, that a lot of dangerous damage comes from non physical attacks, however this is very much DUE to the fact that you can SotR the dangerous physical damage. Even if you would re-allocate all stats into mastery/vers, you'd end up maybe with 4-6% less damage taken per hit. With haste it would allow your SotR uptime to be slightly higher, thus make the physical hits smaller or less relevant more often. Against pure magic damage fights, haste has no real value outside of damage and LotP healing more often (which can be reduced by Righteous Protector with haste), and if a pure magic fight comes around, we'd definitely ditch haste for it.

The general play-style of protection paladins are that we take a lot of damage when SotR is NOT up, and we're tanking safely when it is. Due to this it is important to try to increase the SotR coverage as much as we can. While you can take slightly less damage at all times, having SotR up more often when you know you have damage intake, makes you smoother to heal and easier to survive.

The reality of it is just that haste is more all around better, it's not always THE best stat, but it's always a useful stat, damage wise as well, and it makes the rotation feel a lot better too. If you're able to gear specifically for one single encounter that has very specific fight patterns where you have an easy time having SotR up with minimal haste, yes, Haste loses a lot of it's defensive value, and gearing out of haste for such an encounter IS advisable should that arise. Stamina is always strong defensively, and Strength boosts SotR (which is rather meh but also damage) so both are good, and this is why Ilvl is usually more important than what stats you have on your items. So by going for Ilvl, you ARE going for stamina. Leech however is really low impact as it doesn't really contribute to survivability even it will produce numbers (Avoidance is super nice though).

 

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