Enhancement Shaman 8.3

[Valks 2,373]

On 8/25/2018 at 9:57 AM, Guest Fidget said:

Sorry if I missed it, but I don't see anything about the Glory in Battle trait, which procs a crit and haste buff, and has a greater chance to occur in PvP.

Is this trait competitive in PvE?

This is now listed in the Azerite sims ?

[wordup 37]

On 8/28/2018 at 5:16 PM, Guest Stormy said:

I'd like to ask, why is Flametongue (when buff not active) first on the ability priority list? Missing a gcd:s worth of Flametongue-buffed melee attacks seems much better than potentially losing a Stormstrike cast due to Stormbringer proccing on that gcd.

2 missed Flametongue procs would be about 10% of attack power, while a Stormstrike is 358% (or more with Stormbringer).

It's in part due to the low chance to trigger stormbringer, but also hedging bets on if it actually does (in particular because Stormstrike itself has a much higher chance to trigger repeat instances of SB than other abilities). If it does trigger and Flametongue isn't active, you are going to end up potentially losing repeated triggers over and over so long as stormstrike isn't ready, that could compound into a lot more than that - it's a hard variable to decide on but the current estimations are that the risk.

Also, your 358% isn't accurate, it's closer to 268.5%~ (due to the offhand penalty), it also doesn't scale with mastery, and is impacted by Armour compared to the Flametongue initial cast and potential repeat triggers from SS, Autos and Windfury. It also has the added factor that the only talent that is realistically chosen right now is Searing Assault, that locks this rule in even harder.

[Guest mossmorgan]

Hello!

Why not "Deadly navigation" instead of "Masterful navigation" as weapon enchant?

[wordup 37]

On 9/6/2018 at 5:59 PM, Guest mossmorgan said:

Hello!

Why not "Deadly navigation" instead of "Masterful navigation" as weapon enchant?

Sorry, I just saw this. Masterful is significantly better in AoE/Cleave situations due to the extra benefit of Mastery when you have Crash Lightning up. This pushes it way above in current content due to how few single target situations you run into.

[Guest Nikapo]

The stat priority page is blank, can you fix it please

[GreedElf 0]

Cannot see anything on Stats Priority page for Enhancement Shaman.  The only thing that shows up is the page title. Enhancement Shaman DPS Stat Priority in Battle for Azeroth (BfA) 8.0.1 and the comment link.

[wordup 37]

The issue with the stat page has been passed along, not sure what's caused it to happen.

[Guest mossmorgan]

Hello again!

Just got the trinket "Galecallers boon"  with the use effect that gives a load of haste. 

Should i use it on CD or try to line it up with other CD's? Never use it with Bloodlust maybe?

[Guest enhance]

Hi, should I be using a different enchant in each weapon, or can I stack the haste enchant?  Also, does Primal Primer in any way, strengthen Hot Hand as a talent?

[Guest Mastery]

Does our mastery do anything at all for trinkets or azerite traits that do the correct type of elemental damage?

[wordup 37]

On 9/27/2018 at 9:40 AM, Guest mossmorgan said:

Hello again!

Just got the trinket "Galecallers boon"  with the use effect that gives a load of haste. 

Should i use it on CD or try to line it up with other CD's? Never use it with Bloodlust maybe?

You ideally want to use it on CD, lining with Lust is fine. You want it to sync with as much as possible. Not as ideal when using Elemental Spirits because it will naturally desync, but you can make it work on some fights.

 

On 9/28/2018 at 5:35 AM, Guest enhance said:

Hi, should I be using a different enchant in each weapon, or can I stack the haste enchant?  Also, does Primal Primer in any way, strengthen Hot Hand as a talent?

Different enchant, stacking them has diminishing returns on proc uptime. Primal Primer works with Hot Hand, but doesn't bring it over Lightning Shield.

 

On 9/28/2018 at 6:26 AM, Guest Mastery said:

Does our mastery do anything at all for trinkets or azerite traits that do the correct type of elemental damage?

Mastery impacts some Azerite traits, but not trinkets. You can find which usually in the class aura string in databases here: https://www.wowdb.com/spells/137041-enhancement-shaman

[Guest Taedra]

Hi,

Simple question about feral spirit, should i use them before or after bloodlust?

 

Btw, great guide

[Guest Woodra]

So why isn't our Stormstrike or Lava Lash not working unless we have a one handed melee which I do have but one handers??

 

[Guest mossmorgan]

Hi! 

How do you feel and think about the 8.1 changes to enhancement? Have you tried it out on ptr? 

[Preciel 0]

About the 8.1:

Quote

None of these changes have a significant impact on the talents you will select in current content. It does however allow for more flexibility in what options you have available to you.

So you just copied wowhead without checking?

First, we will notice a small monotarget damage up (excluding the 5% damage up)

Hailstorm damages come straight above searing assault.
As side result, we won't need to cast flametongue as often, thus saving some GCD.

Fury of air, going by the power of maths, seems to deal more damage than sundering.
Sundering would still fare better on fights which require a lot of mobility.

 

Second, it will greatly improve aoe damages.

Hailstorm damage is applied on each target struck by crash lightning (just like flametongue).
Crash lightning can also trigger windfurry on targets, which can in turn trigger two more application of healstorm damages.

Instead of sundering, fury of air will provide more sustained aoe damages.
Crashing storm will be more suited where heavy aoe is needed, but come at the cost of single target dps.

 

I did not took the time to check how the other changes would affect enhancement shaman dps, but for sure, what is above will be significant and greatly change the selected talents.
I wouldn't even be surprised if mastery became more important than crit.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Preciel

[Valks 2,373]

5 hours ago, Preciel said:

About the 8.1:

So you just copied wowhead without checking?

I'm sure Wordup will reply in due time, but just wanted to say he writes both guides. He has not copied another person's work.

[wordup 37]

5 hours ago, Preciel said:

About the 8.1:

So you just copied wowhead without checking?

First, we will notice a small monotarget damage up (excluding the 5% damage up)

Hailstorm damages come straight above searing assault.
As side result, we won't need to cast flametongue as often, thus saving some GCD.

Fury of air, going by the power of maths, seems to deal more damage than sundering.
Sundering would still fare better on fights which require a lot of mobility.

 

Second, it will greatly improve aoe damages.

Hailstorm damage is applied on each target struck by crash lightning (just like flametongue).
Crash lightning can also trigger windfurry on targets, which can in turn trigger two more application of healstorm damages.

Instead of sundering, fury of air will provide more sustained aoe damages.
Crashing storm will be more suited where heavy aoe is needed, but come at the cost of single target dps.

 

I did not took the time to check how the other changes would affect enhancement shaman dps, but for sure, what is above will be significant and greatly change the selected talents.
I wouldn't even be surprised if mastery became more important than crit.

As Blainie said, I am the authoer of both guides so nothing has been copied, it is the same person writing both.

Hailstorm damage is still assuming the absolute ideal build, close to 2% behind Searing Assault. You may not have to cast Flametongue as often (although, right now with Searing Assault it isn't a mandatory cast to use on cooldown regardless, just maintain the buff), but you are disregarding the fact that Hailstorm requires extra GCDs to maintain in this exchange.

Crash Lightning triggering these effects are explained throughout the guide, and while it is theoretically more AoE damage than Searing Assault, it is displacing Global Cooldowns that can be used to either generate or spend on something that actually triggers the Crash effect, which is significantly more damage than a few extra Hailstorm hits on your Crash casts.

Fury of Air requires 100% uptime to deal its damage, while Sundering is frontloaded and costs noticeably less Maelstrom to maintain for its duration (20 Maelstrom per 40 seconds as opposed to 120); and this is in a world were Lightning Shield now no longer generates Maelstrom so some of the surplus we had is going away. Mobility isn't the factor that decides whether Sundering or Fury of Air win, they are both 100% mobile talents - the decider is that one is burst and the other requires constant uptime, something that is heavily weighted into burst.

Crashing Storm is technically the ideal single target talent, you don't lose any by taking it - the issue is that it is heavily impacted by movement situations which makes it a hard to recommend choice. It also has slight synergy with the new upcoming trait (though the nerf to that hasn't been simmed in our stack to identify how bad that ends up hurting it). It isn't the AoE dominant talent and suffers even more from target downtime than Fury of Air does.

Mastery rising in value is likely only going to be caused by the Lightning Shield and Forceful Winds nerfs, and neither are significant enough (I predict) to raise it drastically enough to outshine Crit or Vers in single target - but it will make it even more desirable in AoE/Cleave than it already is, which is noted in the guide as well.

[Preciel 0]

Well, sorry, I didn't knew it was the same person...

I quite disagree with hailstorms sims... it's sims, perfect robots...
I tried it hours and hours, and it still pulled ahead of searing assault.
Even when I used searing assault on CD. The GCD is still a gain.

I'm not really disregarding the fact that hailstorm need a GCD.
It's easier to cast two weapon buff one after another, and only do it every 15~20 secs,
than casting flametongue every 10 secs (if not less under bloodlust and haste procs).
And not using flametongue on CD is placing searing assault way behind hailstorm
(again, it's tested on PTR, not on sims, which are too perfect)

It's true that fury of air require 100% uptime (and more mealstrom), but seeing that we're still wasting a lot of mealstrom,
it's not that hard to maintain. And there is a difference between requiring 20 mealstrom on the spot, and spending a few every secs.
Though it's true that bad handling of your mealstrom will make it trash talent.

I can't seems to see crashing storm as ideal talent for monotarget. It seems to deal less damages than the two other talents, and either you spam it and don't really use lava lash, or neglect it to use lava lash (lightning impact is barely 5 secs CD)

Anyway, that still some good opinion to take in.

Thanks for the reply

[wordup 37]

13 minutes ago, Preciel said:

Well, sorry, I didn't knew it was the same person...

I quite disagree with hailstorms sims... it's sims, perfect robots...
I tried it hours and hours, and it still pulled ahead of searing assault.
Even when I used searing assault on CD. The GCD is still a gain.

I'm not really disregarding the fact that hailstorm need a GCD.
It's easier to cast two weapon buff one after another, and only do it every 15~20 secs,
than casting flametongue every 10 secs (if not less under bloodlust and haste procs).
And not using flametongue on CD is placing searing assault way behind hailstorm
(again, it's tested on PTR, not on sims, which are too perfect)

It's true that fury of air require 100% uptime (and more mealstrom), but seeing that we're still wasting a lot of mealstrom,
it's not that hard to maintain. And there is a difference between requiring 20 mealstrom on the spot, and spending a few every secs.
Though it's true that bad handling of your mealstrom will make it trash talent.

I can't seems to see crashing storm as ideal talent for monotarget. It seems to deal less damages than the two other talents, and either you spam it and don't really use lava lash, or neglect it to use lava lash (lightning impact is barely 5 secs CD)

Anyway, that still some good opinion to take in.

Thanks for the reply

Well that's kind of the point with Hailstorm, sims play it perfectly. You are using it on dummies that are 100% static with no downtime or movement (which is a complete anomaly for actual content), alongside being used entirely in single target that is once again a rare situation. I don't think it's fair at all to disregard sims as too perfect then use a situation that never realistically occurs to judge with instead.

You don't need to cast Flametongue on cooldown with Searing Assault. The GCD displacement of Hailstorm is still there no matter what, and you do need to maintain Hailstorm to gain its value because it's extremely heavily impacted by downtime of the buff, Searing Assault simply bumps up the value of a filler - Hailstorm adds extra damage on buttons you press so needs to already be present.

It feels like you have just mathed out the tooltip value of FoA to make the comparison to Sundering, but that isn't considering the fact that even if there is waste, it is a significant mark up in resource cost; you can't just hand wave that away just like you can't do the same with the fact that Sundering costs additional GCDs, which is factored in when we sim and analyse this.

The Crashing Storm statement you say here is another indication that you're just looking at tooltips though. The value of Crashing Storm comes in with the fact that it makes Crash Lightning a more efficient Maelstrom spender than Lava Lash - something that is quite an important thing to note because Crash has extra benefits of bonus Windfury triggers.

 

I think the overriding impression you're giving is you are looking at the numbers and only that, rather than considering additional factors that are important with talents. Knowing that there is Maelstrom waste does not mean that it suddenly becomes a zero value resource - this is why sims are so useful because it allows us to identify the extra values that are less easy to napkin out by providing us with a modelled rotation.

[Totano 0]

Boralus Blood Sausage should be the best food besides feasts

Edited December 12, 2018 by Totano

[ZenGen 0]

In the Primal Primer guide it says to take hailstorm because it procs the Primal Primer debuff, but I do not think it does, was this information gathered in beta and it's now different? I don't see hailstorm having any affect on Primal Primer in the live game. I would much rather take searing assault as i's way easier on the rotation. Can anybody help me out here?

[Valks 2,373]

On 1/29/2019 at 12:43 AM, ZenGen said:

In the Primal Primer guide it says to take hailstorm because it procs the Primal Primer debuff, but I do not think it does, was this information gathered in beta and it's now different? I don't see hailstorm having any affect on Primal Primer in the live game. I would much rather take searing assault as i's way easier on the rotation. Can anybody help me out here?

Hailstorm counts as a melee hit, thereby increasing the proc rates of PP.

[ZenGen 0]

On 2/7/2019 at 6:18 AM, Blainie said:

Hailstorm counts as a melee hit, thereby increasing the proc rates of PP.

Thank you for answering.

[Valks 2,373]

7 hours ago, ZenGen said:

Thank you for answering.

Happy to help!

[Guest Woohou]

Hi guys  i have a little question since the last patch , is the  Primal build is still worth after the 30% nerf on the azerit trait ?