wow Big Class Tuning Coming August 7th

[Xavenir 1]

1 hour ago, Allseye said:

Well then, i really hope you never doing balancing stuff in any game ? . No seriously, Blizzard has to balance classes while considering player skills. It's not just: "oh well, lets assume people are face-rolling and arms paddling - this we have to balance". Balancing has to be made around the assumption player knows how to play. Otherwise there would be insane overpowerd classes if you know how to play. Doesn't make sense, don't you think?

Still not even close to what i am saying. Classes should be equal to each other, having their pros and cons, but person with the same skill should be able to play at the same level. Not only because that one class is actually better and the next patch we'll nerf it and make better the other one. E.g. if you make a class like warrior, you give him good dmg and good armor. If you're making a hunter, you give him better dmg than warrior but less armor than him. And if you're making rogue-like class you make him even better dmg than previous both, but also less armor. And finally if you're making a cloth class, on the sheet, they should have the best dmg and lowest survivability (not draining a lot of dmg like warlocks and making them possible to stay in one place and casting only). Blizzard stopped doing that by the release of cataclysm when most classes got self healing skills like rogue's recuperate.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Xavenir

[MrPumpson 4]

6 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

...:(

Yeah haha.

[Allseye 96]

2 hours ago, Xavenir said:

Still not even close to what i am saying. Classes should be equal to each other, having their pros and cons, but person with the same skill should be able to play at the same level. Not only because that one class is actually better and the next patch we'll nerf it and make better the other one. E.g. if you make a class like warrior, you give him good dmg and good armor. If you're making a hunter, you give him better dmg than warrior but less armor than him. And if you're making rogue-like class you make him even better dmg than previous both, but also less armor. And finally if you're making a cloth class, on the sheet, they should have the best dmg and lowest survivability (not draining a lot of dmg like warlocks and making them possible to stay in one place and casting only). Blizzard stopped doing that by the release of cataclysm when most classes got self healing skills like rogue's recuperate.

This is true if you play games without healers. Otherwise highest dps class will always be the best choice. You will simply stay alive because you are healed. Your classthinking is a bit outdated for wow. Its not like rouges can't stand infight as long as a warrior do. There is no reason to increase dps for weaker armor classes. Lets be honest, armor is no big deal. Classtuning/balancing is not that easy as it seems and it is really not hard affected by armor class.

If its your opinion classes should be balanced around your concept, ok, its your opinion and i do appreciate your thoughts, so dont get me wrong :-). I just wanted to state player skill has to be considered. And basically you agreed wirh that in your last post ?

Edited August 7, 2018 by Allseye

[Evincare 39]

6 hours ago, Faelosia said:

 

Knowing this, it could also mean that Chi Wave coudl be back as the best mono talent of it's tier, while Chi Burst would be the best for AoE. (The main attract of Chi Burst is the Chi generation, that allowed another BOK to be cast.)

Interesting you would bring that up. That's another point they covered on peak of serenity and you are absolutely right. Just read the part about Chi Burst. I'll link the article again for conveniences sake. https://www.peakofserenity.com/2018/07/18/legion-ww-gets-its-ass-blackout-kicked/#

Now that it doesn't seem like Chi > all anymore, I - again assume, I'm no WW theory pro - you're right. At least it makes perfect sense.

[munch4lunch 0]

18 hours ago, Xavenir said:

I think that you guys don't understand what i mean. Rogues were designed as glass cannons and this what they're today is just nothing more like warriors with same dmg and less survivability. By survivability I mean the grounds, which should be balancing there, not the skills in your spellbooks. Balancing games has nothing to do with player's skills. Try challenge ppl above 2k rating as a rogue (not in the pre-patch one) and then we can talk. ?

I had to make an account after 10 years to tell you how much of a fool you are. 

[Faelosia 10]

22 hours ago, Xavenir said:

I think that you guys don't understand what i mean. Rogues were designed as glass cannons and this what they're today is just nothing more like warriors with same dmg and less survivability. By survivability I mean the grounds, which should be balancing there, not the skills in your spellbooks. Balancing games has nothing to do with player's skills. Try challenge ppl above 2k rating as a rogue (not in the pre-patch one) and then we can talk. ?

I think you're clearly misleading here pal.

Antoher important thing that you seem to forget, is that armor is only relevant to physical damage. So when you're a mage, a UH DK, a WL, etc etc, you completely disregard the armor of the target you're hitting, and only care for their defensives CD.

[PatrickHenry 293]

On 8/7/2018 at 12:16 PM, Xavenir said:

Still not even close to what i am saying. Classes should be equal to each other, having their pros and cons, but person with the same skill should be able to play at the same level.

But youre forgetting that different classes have different play STYLES.  Dots and prolonged rampup damage of a Afflic lock is quite dissimilar to a direct damage Arms warrior, or a utility/damage class like Druid (feral) vs a Rogue, one might have other utility for a fight taht the other may not, how do you balance around that?  (see KJ fights with 40% rogues, for their evasion not for damage)  

There is a lot more than just 'they should be balanced.'  Define 'balanced,' and I'll show you another 5 who disagree, and they disagree on different aspects of that balance and its quantity and extremity.  

Even then, the fights have to be different as the classes or it'd be one boring-@ss game, I would think.  Then youre balancing different classes, around different abilities, and now different fights as well.

Edited August 9, 2018 by PatrickHenry

[Xavenir 1]

22 minutes ago, PatrickHenry said:

But youre forgetting that different classes have different play STYLES.  Dots and prolonged rampup damage of a Afflic lock is quite dissimilar to a direct damage Arms warrior, or a utility/damage class like Druid (feral) vs a Rogue, one might have other utility for a fight taht the other may not, how do you balance around that?  (see KJ fights with 40% rogues, for their evasion not for damage)  

There is a lot more than just 'they should be balanced.'  Define 'balanced,' and I'll show you another 5 who disagree, and they disagree on different aspects of that balance and its quantity and extremity.  

Even then, the fights have to be different as the classes or it'd be one boring-@ss game, I would think.  Then youre balancing different classes, around different abilities, and now different fights as well.

Only quote that, because this is the most sense post from the all previously (i laughed at munch4lunch - not even thinking what nothing to do you had to make that account xd). Ofcourse i just put the basics, therefore next step is balancing classes in certain brackets (clother/leathers/mailers/platers). Don't know if you played some during WoTLK, there as a rogue you was exactly what glass cannon should be. The only playable (higher ratio) spec was Subtlety, which was killing you during gcd if you didn't know how to stop it or dying 30 sec later if they wasted all their cds. Now Assa rogues are just nothing more like warriors (in my opinion ofc), just look for Pshero livestream or someone else, if you're not playing the rogue. The only thing you have to do is pushing 6 buttons most of the time and facing every enemy in open fight. The same was doing warrior arms during 3.3.5, putting bleeds and "spamming" keys including heroic strike mostly and overpower/execute. Anyway, i am finishing write in this thread, because got no more time to think about that (even now forgett the whole what i meant in the first post), have too much in job to do.

[PatrickHenry 293]

2 hours ago, Xavenir said:

Ofcourse i just put the basics, therefore next step is balancing classes in certain brackets (clother/leathers/mailers/platers).

and now you even added ANOTHER level to balance out, with different armor classes.  

Lets tally this: 
Different classes - check
Different abilities - check
Different ways abilities interact with targets (dots, direct, aoe) - check
Different battles to fight - check
Different racial abilities that give flavor - but still matter at some point in time - Check
Now even different TYPES OF GEAR they can wear - check

This is why its never going to be 'balanced.'  Not for you, or for anyone, really, ever.  They can do what they can, but you will literally never please everyone all of the time.

Edited August 9, 2018 by PatrickHenry