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Imperius Meta Tier List (January 2019)

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2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Why is Auriel this high?  She is junk without a solid battery.  I also think Orphea is much better than other mages you have on that tier.

Auriel's dependency on a carry is lessened somewhat by her level 7 talents. Even sticking it on a strong frontline tank with an aura gives her moderate energy if you stutter basic attacks in. Coupled along with a versatile kit, decent waveclear (for a support) and one of THE best healer ults that essentially cancels out a lot of the combos mages will be trying to land on someone, and has a great Storm talent to go with it.

Moreover, she's mid tier. That's pretty reasonable? 

I'd keep an eye on Morales btw, she seems pretty solid at the moment with the cumulative effects her tweaks have had and the armour changes, also fairly resilient in a scrapping fight. 

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11 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

In Quick Match it may be so, but in In organized teams on Ranked she is absurdly potent. The meta is Mage-oriented, so there are plenty of great batteries for Auriel (Jaina, Kael'thas, Azmodan), and many other Assassins are also very effective for that (Fenix, Lunara, Sgt. Hammer).

Not to mention that Auriel, if played right, is the best Support in the game, due to Reservoir of HopeReservoir of Hope, which allows her to essentially increase her healing output without any caps. With just 5 stacks or so her heals rivals stuff like Ancestral HealingAncestral Healing.

There are so many heroes that are good batteries right now. Pretty much any mage or high damage ranged assassin will work, and even some high damage melee heroes will constantly yield exceptional damage which translates into great healing. Her only problem is sustained healing which can be countered by high sustained damage dealers though, and she’s certainly vulnerable to CC.

Edited by Maxkitty
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Sooo...how does the crowd feel about Imperius?

I find him pretty fun. Not oppressive but also not too weak. Even though I think that he has quite a bit of talents that are really...underwhelming (special shoutout to SmackThatHereticDown heroic).

I also do not find him that good against all the mages with their greater reach but, eh, what can you do about that, right?

Edit:
Artanis in High-Tier? Did I miss something?
Not a complaint because I love playing him but...well, how exactly did that happen?

Edited by ExorionAether

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And she has plenty of opportunities for playmaking with her E, Q blinds spec and Aegis Crystal.
Her only downside is when your team is getting outpoked, as she relies on trading damage.

Edit: Screw me, I wanted to post this as addendum to Valhalen's post about why Auriel. ^^

 

Edited by SleepySheepy
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1 hour ago, ExorionAether said:

Sooo...how does the crowd feel about Imperius?

I find him pretty fun. Not oppressive but also not too weak. Even though I think that he has quite a bit of talents that are really...underwhelming (special shoutout to SmackThatHereticDown heroic).

I also do not find him that good against all the mages with their greater reach but, eh, what can you do about that, right?

Edit:
Artanis in High-Tier? Did I miss something?
Not a complaint because I love playing him but...well, how exactly did that happen?

I think Imperius is one of the best balanced Warriors. He is really powerful, but not broken. He seems to fit into pretty much any team due his utility and lockdown potential.

Artanis has been a sleeper ever since Blizzard tweaked some of his talents, which made him very powerful in the endgame. He is far more viable now and deals surprisingly high damage in the right circumstances.

24 minutes ago, SleepySheepy said:

And she has plenty of opportunities for playmaking with her E, Q blinds spec and Aegis Crystal.
Her only downside is when your team is getting outpoked, as she relies on trading damage.

Edit: Screw me, I wanted to post this as addendum to Valhalen's post about why Auriel. ^^

Thanks, man! I actually reached level 100 with her yesterday. She has always been one of my favorite Supports, or rather favorite Heroes in the game. I've made a massive investment on her and I always try to check which are the best Batteries; you can check my list in the Auriel official thread (spoiler alert: Cho'gall is the best battery).

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I mean, if Twin Blyat is high tier, why not Artanis? 😛

 

But seriously, I think Artanis' kit has some serious design flaws that severely hurt his performance despite how powerful his talents can be.

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39 minutes ago, ShadowerDerek said:

I mean, if Twin Blyat is high tier, why not Artanis? 😛

 

But seriously, I think Artanis' kit has some serious design flaws that severely hurt his performance despite how powerful his talents can be.

Please expound on this! Artanis is the first hero I played, so he's both kind of my baseline understanding of the game and a favorite of mine.

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3 hours ago, LostDeep said:

Please expound on this! Artanis is the first hero I played, so he's both kind of my baseline understanding of the game and a favorite of mine.

Ok, let's talk about them one by one:

First of all, his trait basically forces you to continuously deliver basic attacks to have any kind of survivability. If you can't, then you're literally made out of paper.

What does that mean? He's extremely vulnerable to any kind of CC: stuns, roots, blinds, knock-backs, and even slows. And he doesn't have talents like Relentless Soldier (Tychus Lv 7) to give you damage mitigation when you get CC'ed. 

Another crucial point is that he has no gap closer besides his W, which the range is shorter than any kind of movement ability. That means, he is easily kited by range heroes, and you can't attack them when you're kited because you're melee. Also, he doesn't have CC himself to lock down his target to prevent being kited.

When I played Artanis for the first time, my initial impression was, 'Why his attack speed is so slow?' Given how basic-attack-reliant he is, his attack speed is so sluggish. If his attack speed is slowed, he basically cannot attack at all. 

Second, he doesn't have any kind of mobility, besides his Q + E combo, which I'll talk about it later. This is an important asset for melee damage dealers for their engage and disengage. Artanis has only engage with his Q + E combo (which use 2 ability cooldowns and is unreliable), but has 0 disengage. Having no disengage means he's an all-in-or-nothing hero, and he can't even reliably engage in a favourable situation. 

Third, his basic abilities are shxt. His Q is his only form of waveclear, and a TEMPORARY channelled movement ability. Any interrupts can potentially put yourself in an undesired position. Remember that he has no escape, which means it's a risky ability to cast. His W is honestly the only good one, but it's still a form of basic attack (which can be blinded).

His E is mostly used with Q to create the so called 'God Swap'. But what does that do? It's a worse hook that put yourself into your enemy team, use 2 cooldowns, and is more unreliable. Why don't you just play Stitches? 

None of these abilities provide meaningful utilities for your team, which makes him solely a damage dealer.

Conclusion:

Artanis' strength:

+ duel

+ camp clear

+ racing Immortal at BoE if you pick Amateur Opponent at Lv 1

+ dealing high damage in ideal situations

Artanis' weakness:

- no mobility

- no REAL sustain (shield is not sustain since it's temporary)

- no utility except the blind heroic at Lv 10

- can't stick to his target easily, which means get kited easily

- extremely reliant on basic attacks, which means hard countered by blinds and attack speed slows

- weak waveclear as a bruiser

- bad basic kits

- vulnerable to most CC

- no poke

- no escape

- no damage mitigation if he can't basic attack

I try to be as unbiased as possible, but as I've said before somewhere on this site, Artanis is literally a fat Illidan.

Edited by ShadowerDerek
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There is so much more to Artanis compared to Illidan.

1st of, only his defense is tied to CDR, unlike Illidan, and what he does he can do in bursts and back off.
Illidan has to be constantly in face to be a threat. Secondly, he deals way more damage than Illidan. Thirdly, he has (weak) escape, in form of Q-ing through target that is in your face and swapping to switch your spots, effectively pushing him away and giving him hefty 35% slow. Fourth, difference between Hook and swaps is range and having less options at avoiding it. If he is going for biggest distance, well sure, that has good chance of failing. But every other is really hard to avoid, and places you next to target, which gives you AA chance to get your next shield. Also forgot to say huge, periodic chunk of shield on big HP body is much better than small, consistent heal on low HP with very situational evade ability.

I probably forgot some other stuff, calling Artanis "just a fat Illidan" is really undermining his value. 

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2 hours ago, SleepySheepy said:

There is so much more to Artanis compared to Illidan.

1st of, only his defense is tied to CDR, unlike Illidan, and what he does he can do in bursts and back off.
Illidan has to be constantly in face to be a threat. Secondly, he deals way more damage than Illidan. Thirdly, he has (weak) escape, in form of Q-ing through target that is in your face and swapping to switch your spots, effectively pushing him away and giving him hefty 35% slow. Fourth, difference between Hook and swaps is range and having less options at avoiding it. If he is going for biggest distance, well sure, that has good chance of failing. But every other is really hard to avoid, and places you next to target, which gives you AA chance to get your next shield. Also forgot to say huge, periodic chunk of shield on big HP body is much better than small, consistent heal on low HP with very situational evade ability.

I probably forgot some other stuff, calling Artanis "just a fat Illidan" is really undermining his value. 

By burst and back off, you mean W a target and casually (try to) walk away? That's not really a significant 'burst' and you can't always walk away without being punished. 

His "weak" escape requires 2 ability cooldowns, with relatively short range. That 35% slow is tied to a Lv 7 talent, which comes with an opportunity cost. 

Hook always pull your target to your melee range, while swap only does so if you're already in melee range with your target (with your Q or not). And hook pull your target into your team while swap put yourself into the enemy team. And swap isn't significantly harder to dodge than hook.

Also, Artanis doesn't really have a 'big' HP. It's the same health pool as Leoric's, Imperius', and Chen's. A typical bruiser HP.

I didn't mean Artanis is worse, or as bad as, Illidan. He's indeed better than Illidan. But that doesn't mean he's a good hero at all. 

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On 1/19/2019 at 6:14 AM, ShadowerDerek said:

Ok, let's talk about them one by one:

First of all, his trait basically forces you to continuously deliver basic attacks to have any kind of survivability. If you can't, then you're literally made out of paper.

What does that mean? He's extremely vulnerable to any kind of CC: stuns, roots, blinds, knock-backs, and even slows. And he doesn't have talents like Relentless Soldier (Tychus Lv 7) to give you damage mitigation when you get CC'ed. 

Another crucial point is that he has no gap closer besides his W, which the range is shorter than any kind of movement ability. That means, he is easily kited by range heroes, and you can't attack them when you're kited because you're melee. Also, he doesn't have CC himself to lock down his target to prevent being kited.

When I played Artanis for the first time, my initial impression was, 'Why his attack speed is so slow?' Given how basic-attack-reliant he is, his attack speed is so sluggish. If his attack speed is slowed, he basically cannot attack at all. 

Second, he doesn't have any kind of mobility, besides his Q + E combo, which I'll talk about it later. This is an important asset for melee damage dealers for their engage and disengage. Artanis has only engage with his Q + E combo (which use 2 ability cooldowns and is unreliable), but has 0 disengage. Having no disengage means he's an all-in-or-nothing hero, and he can't even reliably engage in a favourable situation. 

Third, his basic abilities are shxt. His Q is his only form of waveclear, and a TEMPORARY channelled movement ability. Any interrupts can potentially put yourself in an undesired position. Remember that he has no escape, which means it's a risky ability to cast. His W is honestly the only good one, but it's still a form of basic attack (which can be blinded).

[...]

All you said is true, but his latest rework addressed some of those problems with specific talents. Shield SurgeShield Surge was already there, but is still one of his best defensive options for "sustain" and dueling. Psionic SynergyPsionic Synergy  helps somewhat with survival. Solarite ReaperSolarite Reaper really increases his waveclear, and can be comboed with Templar's ZealTemplar's Zeal for CD reduction. Both Warp SicknessWarp Sickness and Chrono SurgeChrono Surge add utility for swapping, specially on duels, and can be improved even further with enourmous CD reduction by Graviton VortexGraviton VortexPhase BulwarkPhase Bulwark gives excelent damage mitigation against all the mages. Titan KillerTitan Killer increases his damage against tanks and bruisers. Blades of a TemplarBlades of a Templar helps both his "sustain" and allows him to stick to targets. All his lvl 20 are good, with a special shout out to the new version of Target PurifiedTarget Purified, that by increasing the beam speed went from a winmore talent to a capable of wiping distracted teams.

IMO Artanis has one of the best trees in the game right now, with multiple talents viable on every tier and options to adapt to any situations.

Edited by lChronosl

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Ragnaros is fine. I wouldn't call him a melee assassin. I could call him a ranged trapper. Between dropping that ball down and swining it back for more hits, turning minions, mercs and teammates into time bombs, and smacking the edge of NPC groups to reach players who thought they were out of range or were trying to enter melee, it's not too difficult to be a ranged assassin with Ragnaros. That said, it requires more scheming than most to land the hits. In exchange he gets amazing wave clear in the lane he's in as a bonus to hero targeted damage. He gets great team fight capability, with more and more damage the more enemies that are around. And he gets a D trait that just pokes the hell out of enemies while clearing waves from a safe distance. Coming in to close is his heroic lane clear which just makes fun of other lane clear characters with how quick and easy it is during the most inconvenient times for the opposing team.

Not sure what you expect him to get tweaked to. If he's at all easier to survive then he just gets that much scarier, or pathetic if his damage is lowered to compensate. His bowling ball quest is very quick and easy and once you have it you're pretty much set for the game to have a large impact. The amount of zoning that he does as well for an assassin is pretty high.

Not sure where the 'viable 3 builds' comes in though. There is a clear winner, at least when you know your map and choose him for it.

I do have one question about Auriel that I never really explored. Does Abathur's symbiote damage go to her if he's on her crowned target? I've gone Abathur a few times during the Cho'Gall/Auriel QM team ups but I didn't really bother to figure that out since I'm usually pretty bouncy between teammates and our side's NPCs.

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29 minutes ago, Morcalivan said:

I do have one question about Auriel that I never really explored. Does Abathur's symbiote damage go to her if he's on her crowned target? I've gone Abathur a few times during the Cho'Gall/Auriel QM team ups but I didn't really bother to figure that out since I'm usually pretty bouncy between teammates and our side's NPCs.

No, Abathur's Symbiote only grants Energy if Auriel puts her crown on Abathur himself. So for instance, if Abathur puts Symbiote on a minion and Auriel puts her crown on Abathur, the Symbiote's abilities used through the minion will grant energy.

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On 1/17/2019 at 1:57 AM, Oxygen said:

One classic example of such is that of Kerrigan on the Infernal Shrines map. Although we currently judge her to be a mid-tier hero, her drafting priority shoots up to first-pick or first-ban material on this specific map due to the nature of its objective

Can somebody tell me why is Kerri supposed to be such a good pick on infernal shrines?

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1 hour ago, VegaPl said:

Can somebody tell me why is Kerri supposed to be such a good pick on infernal shrines?

Kerrigan has relatively good waveclear (which helps in the objective of this map), and she'll be constantly building up her Shields due to basic attacking the minions that spawn. 

Also, she shines in clustered areas where she can do her combos and leave foes with few options to escape. Additionally, since this map features a lot of vents, she can make good use of fog of war to gank unsuspecting enemy Heroes during lane rotations.

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4 hours ago, VegaPl said:

Can somebody tell me why is Kerri supposed to be such a good pick on infernal shrines?

Not to mention by late game she can have one of the fastest objective clear (the skeletons) with the resets of RavageRavage, specially if  you picked a Q build with Mounting PotencyMounting Potency and/or Sharpened BladesSharpened Blades.

Edited by lChronosl
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I figured as much, but still I have other heroes in mind when I think about the pick. I'd rather go for Malthael, Sonya or Junkrat, all of which deal very well with the objective and all have great potential for teamfights on it. I would agree that Kerri benefits more from those vent surprises, but that would be her only leverage in my eyes. 

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On 1/22/2019 at 4:12 AM, VegaPl said:

Thanks for the feedback guys. I figured as much, but still I have other heroes in mind when I think about the pick. I'd rather go for Malthael, Sonya or Junkrat, all of which deal very well with the objective and all have great potential for teamfights on it. I would agree that Kerri benefits more from those vent surprises, but that would be her only leverage in my eyes. 

Yeah the movement trap works both ways though, so nuking characters works best on that map. The problem is when you lose the shrine and the Punisher gets released. Minions don't survive long in team fights. And using melee attacks on the Punisher is gonna get you stunned. She also won't typically be able to dive on the enemy team during this time either unless one of them runs ahead of the Punisher. I'd prefer to be able to give a more consistent damage into the shrine area, punisher and enemy team alike on that map.

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Huh, Fenix fell from High to Mid.

Is that so?

That's not fair, he should be given back his place or even go to meta. He's the most versatile marksman: pretty tanky, super waveclear, has a global. He is also the 2nd highest winrate on hotslogs marksmen. 😁

With the Repeater cannon build I feel like he can kite and duel 90% of all heroes, even someone like Butcher, Artanis or mages, with the right micro/scenario.😉

 

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It seems with the current meta (mage heavy with beefy frontline), i have seen a lot more double support games with a tanky support being the bruiser (i.e. Uther, Lili, Rehgar). Which somewhat makes sense. They can help with the burst damage of the mages while also harassing the back line. Uthers armor buffs mitigate alot more damage now and playing him as a brusier rather than a full support just feels so right, thoughts?

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      Whitemane
      Base
      Basic Attack Damage increased from 55 to 62. Clemency [Active] Mana cost removed. Additional functionality: Removes 1 stack of Desperation. Inquisition [W] Additional functionality: Removes 1 stack of Desperation. Zeal [Trait] Added functionality: Activate to increase your Spell Power by 25% and reduce your Armor by 25 for 5 seconds. 60 second cooldown. Talents
      Level 10 Scarlet Aegis [R1] Cooldown reduced from 90 to 70 seconds. Level 13 Saintly Greatstaff [Trait] New functionality: Hitting an enemy with Searing Lash marks them for 3 seconds. Basic Attacks against a marked target deal an additional 75 damage and consume the mark. Level 20 New Talent – Guiding Light [Active] Activate to grant target ally a permanent Zeal. Only one target can have this at a time. Melee Assassin

      Qhira
      Talents
      Level 1 Finishing Touch [Passive] Modified functionality: Gain 15% Basic Attack damage. When you Basic Attack a Hero below 50% Health, gain an additional 15% Basic Attack damage and 35% Attack Speed for 3 seconds. Ranged Assassin

      Junkrat
      Base
      Vitals Health increased from 1350 to 1425. Health Regeneration increased from 2.813 to 2.969. Talents
      Level 4 BOOM POW [W] Cooldown reduction increased from 8 to 9 seconds. Level 7 Big As [E] Armor reduction increased from 10 to 15. Level 10 Rocket Ride [R2] Damage increased from 815 to 890.
      Li-Ming
      Base
      Vitals Health from 1232 to 1270. Health regen from 2.57 to 2.65 Talents
      Level 1 Astral Presence [Passive] Removed. Force Armor [Q] Additional functionality: Mana regeneration is increased by 100% while below 35% maximum Mana. Level 4 Triumvirate [W] Additional functionality: Max range Arcane Orbs also refund 40 Mana. Bug Fixes
      General
      Many abilities that were incorrectly incrementing Healing or Self Healing scores have been fixed. Protected now contributes to Healing or Self Healing Score. A.I. should no longer become stuck in a logic loop while attempting to capture Merc camps that have enemy structures nearby. User Interface
      Fixed additional issues that caused Gem purchase dialog show blank screen. Fixed typos in Boost tooltips. Fixed an issue where player names are cut off when they have a Boost active. MAC
      Fixed an issue that would cause mouse hover outlines for some objects to render solid black. Fixed an issue that would cause area of effect circles to render with an incorrect color. The latest balance update has hit the Nexus and here are the patch notes.
    • By Stan
      This week's Hero rotation includes Ana, Brightwing, Kael'thas, Zul'jin, and more.
      Free-to-Play Hero Rotation: October 15, 2019
      Player level remains unknown because Blizzard stopped updating the official forum post.
      Ana Artanis Azmodan Brightwing Cho Chromie ETC Gall Kael'thas Li Li Rexxar The Butcher Zagara Zul'jin (Source)
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