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Castle Nathria DPS Rankings

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Guest tastyybeverage

by the way you have balance druids in list as A-tier and down below as B-tier

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Guest TR1PL3D0T

There's something wrong, cuz balance druid is A tier and later in B tier.

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11 hours ago, Guest tastyybeverage said:

by the way you have balance druids in list as A-tier and down below as B-tier

This has been fixed, thanks!

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6 hours ago, Guest Law said:

Does the author get fired if this turns out to be complete garbage?

Not quite! There are numerous disclaimers on all of the tier lists stating multiple times that all of this can change, etc. - the list will be updated and maintained as more information becomes available, until we have a "final" list for the raid, barring future changes after release.

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What Blaine said is correct. This is not final at all, is very much subjective, and you will surely see differing opinions on lots of the specs. While I can try to predict what will be good and useful inside Castle, there will be significant tuning passes, probably some reworks still, and Castle itself could change heavily before we get there. This is just meant to open the conversation and get some baseline opinions going for where everything is at.

 

I can tell you that as an officer in a competitive guild, we have already started making roster and comp decisions about how we're preparing for Shadowlands. Those are obviously not going to be final, but it's better to have a baseline and adjust as needed than not prepare at all.

 

Feel free to leave feedback with what you disagree with. I've already made several changes based on feedback I've received and new logs I've looked at, so check back for updates!

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Guest Donkeystorm

Great information, very helpful. Is there anything like this for Mythic+?

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Guest Darkdreamez

Please stop the frost mage buffs and fix the arcane mage. You seriously fix something, only to break it again

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26 minutes ago, Guest Darkdreamez said:

Please stop the frost mage buffs and fix the arcane mage. You seriously fix something, only to break it again

We're not Blizzard!

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51 minutes ago, Damien said:

We're not Blizzard!

And yet we're named Icy Veins.... Clearly we're frost mage sympathizers

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Hey guys

Im pretty much interested in why Fury warriors are so high in the raking table, dont take me wrong i main warrior but im pretty much surprise to see it as an A tier and being higher than other classes which IMO and through different streams and tests are doing quite better. I mean, Fury is doing quite some damage in cleave situation, especially if you pick condem as your covenant ability, but we really lack some single target damage in beta now, and having the possibility to take better melee classes for cleaving and doing single target damage, why does fury stands so high in your ranking, cleave damage wont make up for the lack of single target.

Also if it possible i would like to discuss about the damage overall that you can check in this logs(which i know they are not that much accurate but they can help to have an idea).

https://www.wowmeta.com/shadowlands/dps-rankings#all-stars

Im only giving a look at it in avarage ranking as i know that there are some ppl out there who excels at this class and can deal tons of damage, but most people would expect to do the avarage damage in most situation as the ping/computer settings and many other factors affect your dps.

So if you can check the ranking i would say that fury would be dunno, B tier and not the first one, so why did you choose to have it at  A, there must be more reasons than the one you wrote.

Edited by Direwolf3

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Guest Nexii

Please, the community is begging you, stop with the clickbait articles and terrible tier lists. You are only creating poor community perception over nothing and are extremely toxic.

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4 hours ago, Guest Nexii said:

Please, the community is begging you, stop with the clickbait articles and terrible tier lists. You are only creating poor community perception over nothing and are extremely toxic.

Thanks for the feedback, but I disagree. I understand tier lists can be controversial, especially when they're up before the actual expansion release when there is clearly still tuning coming. We have multiple warnings explaining that this is only based on current beta performance and tuning will happen, this is just meant to show what's happening right now in beta, which I'm willing to be will be more accurate than not towards launch balance. That's not saying it will be 100% accurate, of course it won't be, but that there will be more specs close to where they are now than specs that change drastically.

 

We also have several new features coming that should help ease your concerns a little more, including some explanations about bugs and less-complete specs, more strengths and weaknesses for each spec, and more input from class writers to give people a better understanding of the specs they're interested in at a glance.

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22 hours ago, Direwolf3 said:

Hey guys

Im pretty much interested in why Fury warriors are so high in the raking table, dont take me wrong i main warrior but im pretty much surprise to see it as an A tier and being higher than other classes which IMO and through different streams and tests are doing quite better. I mean, Fury is doing quite some damage in cleave situation, especially if you pick condem as your covenant ability, but we really lack some single target damage in beta now, and having the possibility to take better melee classes for cleaving and doing single target damage, why does fury stands so high in your ranking, cleave damage wont make up for the lack of single target.

Also if it possible i would like to discuss about the damage overall that you can check in this logs(which i know they are not that much accurate but they can help to have an idea).

https://www.wowmeta.com/shadowlands/dps-rankings#all-stars

Im only giving a look at it in avarage ranking as i know that there are some ppl out there who excels at this class and can deal tons of damage, but most people would expect to do the avarage damage in most situation as the ping/computer settings and many other factors affect your dps.

So if you can check the ranking i would say that fury would be dunno, B tier and not the first one, so why did you choose to have it at  A, there must be more reasons than the one you wrote.

Wowmeta is now a good resource to follow for shadowlands beta, and it's easy to see why. Warcraftlogs does not have an all-star or any sort of organized ranking section for Shadowlands yet, which is why I don't include WCL stats in my list. There are a few reasons this is a problem, but (as I understand it) Wowmeta works by automatically pulling uploaded warcraft logs from raid testing and taking averages. This is very inaccurate for a few reasons, but the biggest ones will be that most top guilds keep their testing logs private, so wowmeta cannot access them. For fury warrior specifically, in my experience in testing the opposite has held true - fury warrior has actually been quite competitive in single target in addition to bringing the other strengths you mentioned, hence it's spot in the A-tier.

Wowmeta is based on pure damage output from pulled tests, but without releasing their methodology for generating their rankings it's incredibly hard to put any faith in the values they put out. Out of the 197 logs they pulled from, the vast majority are probably not actual boss kills, just best pulls. They probably include short pulls before wipes, hence why Arcane Mage might be much higher than expected. Even in the aggregate, their data also does not include anything for the last 3 bosses, which are arguably the most important. 

Especially for a raiding tier list, the data requires some interpretation. Even if Fury Warriors might not do the most single target damage, if they do incredible 1-minute burst and do some of the best execute in the game, they could just be very valuable this tier if those situations end up to be incredibly valuable on Sludgefist and Sire Denathrius, which is a very realistic possibility.

 

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On 9/4/2020 at 1:01 PM, Damien said:

This thread is for comments about our Castle Nathria DPS rankings.

I do not understand why or how demonology warlocks are so low on the list, only one class has been able to beat be so far, and that was a balance druid who had to be doing something illegal or something, he tripled everyones dmg, and I was 2nd at 5.5k single target.

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On 9/11/2020 at 9:47 PM, Aerisot said:

I do not understand why or how demonology warlocks are so low on the list, only one class has been able to beat be so far, and that was a balance druid who had to be doing something illegal or something, he tripled everyones dmg, and I was 2nd at 5.5k single target.

Demo will perform better in dungeons than it will in raid. Its strengths are stacked AoE burst cleave and burst ST from tyrant, which in dungeons is what you will get to make great use of. Demo sadly just does not have the best kit for the raid, and suffers heavily. It's not terrible for some of the single target fights like Sludgefist, but the movement is generally too much and it loses a ton of value. Even with no movement, it just does not bring the damage that other specs above it do.

Also it's worth noting that if you are using the fel hound demo legendary that's been getting popular, it is very heavily bugged and sits at 30 stacks on beta which makes it do much more damage than it would on live.

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Guest Xayah

If there’s not enough data currently for Survival Hunter it feels like it should be unranked until there is enough information. Their numbers have already changed after some bug fixes so it feels misinformed to slap a D ranking on them until there’s data to know where they actually stand. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Xayah said:

If there’s not enough data currently for Survival Hunter it feels like it should be unranked until there is enough information. Their numbers have already changed after some bug fixes so it feels misinformed to slap a D ranking on them until there’s data to know where they actually stand. 

Yeah, I agree. Currently in the process of adding an "unranked" tier to the list, just figuring out what other specs if any should be added.

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Guest Dproject

After recent tunings, are there any changes in the tier brackets?

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6 hours ago, Guest Dproject said:

After recent tunings, are there any changes in the tier brackets?

The most substantial changes were to the tank rankings, the DPS rankings were not really affected. There are some small changes coming soon, but not as much related to the tuning this past week and more related to some conversations I've had with other raiders convincing me to reevaluate a couple of specs. At this point I'll wait to see what tuning happens tomorrow and push changes Thursday.

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Guest Kosh

So publishing this tier list even before the expansion drops...

 

and people who don't have time/inclination to raid 4 hours a day 3 nights a week like me now can't get into any groups unless we play a meta spec we may not want to..

 

I was seriously debating returning to WoW after a year or so away; this list has made my mind up for me - to not bother.

 

Icy Veins - please pull this garbage down asap; I'm sure it was done with the best intentions but achieves the rear end of squat; and is probably negative.

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On 9/17/2020 at 1:08 AM, Guest Kosh said:

So publishing this tier list even before the expansion drops...

 

and people who don't have time/inclination to raid 4 hours a day 3 nights a week like me now can't get into any groups unless we play a meta spec we may not want to..

 

I was seriously debating returning to WoW after a year or so away; this list has made my mind up for me - to not bother.

 

Icy Veins - please pull this garbage down asap; I'm sure it was done with the best intentions but achieves the rear end of squat; and is probably negative.

I'm not really sure I understand where your frustration is coming from, and I'd like to try and understand the concern.

Are you upset because tier lists like this shape the perceived "meta" and make it harder for the specs farther down on the tier list to get into groups? I can see why that might be a concern, but I do disagree with the idea that we cannot give input or share thoughts because of potential negative community perceptions. If people discriminate against specs, that's on them, but I will not hold back on my guides or other writing just because someone might take it the wrong way. 

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Guest Kosh
9 hours ago, Impakt said:

I'm not really sure I understand where your frustration is coming from, and I'd like to try and understand the concern.

Are you upset because tier lists like this shape the perceived "meta" and make it harder for the specs farther down on the tier list to get into groups? I can see why that might be a concern, but I do disagree with the idea that we cannot give input or share thoughts because of potential negative community perceptions. If people discriminate against specs, that's on them, but I will not hold back on my guides or other writing just because someone might take it the wrong way. 

No it's not solely on them, it will massively affect people who might want to log on for an hour or so to try and do an M+ or something of that ilk. These people who don't play 25 hours a day do exist; well at least 1 of them does! 

 The fact that you've shaped a meta even before the expansion has dropped has made community perception worse. Maybe it shouldn't; I totally agree, however I left WOW before because of the utter toxicity and meta - slaving and it seems nothing has changed in that regards.

Obviously, you have the absolute right to publish what you want re WoW, however I respectfully suggest that if you think it won't negatively impact a sizeable chunk of non top end players I think you're deluding yourself. Now my experience is only anecdotal and only 1 person but a sizeable chunk of newer players I encounter in FF14 are WOW exiles sick of the same kind of things I've just mentioned; and I totally fail to see how this guide improves things one iota - sorry.

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On 9/17/2020 at 12:08 AM, Guest Kosh said:

So publishing this tier list even before the expansion drops...

 

and people who don't have time/inclination to raid 4 hours a day 3 nights a week like me now can't get into any groups unless we play a meta spec we may not want to..

 

I was seriously debating returning to WoW after a year or so away; this list has made my mind up for me - to not bother.

 

Icy Veins - please pull this garbage down asap; I'm sure it was done with the best intentions but achieves the rear end of squat; and is probably negative.

Do you honestly think that a couple of MILLION players come here and use this as a bible? Players don't have a mind or opinion of our own? hahaha! Stay away from the game. Thanks.

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