Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
Damien

[Archived] Guardian Druid 5.4

Recommended Posts

Guest Knaxia

I'm sorry but right now I'm totally lost.

On here (Icy Veins), stats are in this order:

  • Stamina (until you have enough, see below);
  • Agility;
  • Dodge Rating = Mastery Rating;
  • Critical Strike Rating;
  • Hit Rating and Expertise Rating;
  • Haste Rating.
while Mr. Robot tells me:

Agi > Dodge > Mastery > Crit > Haste > Hit=Exp

So when I want to optimise, it's going to take the hit/exp to dodge prior to the haste, I had a feeling it was better to keep that and remove haste instead?

Also for gemming, Icy Veins throws all in Agi (like in Cata), or agi/mastery, agi/hit (why not agi/dodge or agi/stam?) while Mr. Robot throw all in pure dodge no matter what is the socket color. I've read the above comments and I'm still confused on what should really be used as both places suggest each other and both tell totally different informations....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guardian

I do think some of this logic, even if support mathmatically. Is logically incorrect in nature. Given such a heavy priority of items to generate rage. I always focus as I have for years with Agi > Dodge > Mastery > Haste > Hit=Exp. I never gem dodge always reforge it. I gem Agi. Even with a post that notes pure dodge gives better dodge. Agi is used for more then just a Guardians dodge. And to focus outside that is just silly (Don't try and wear 2 left shoes when a right and left work better). I focus on gears with Mastery/Crit. I avoid the whole boggle of looking mostly for haste and hit gears. I find the gear always gives enough hit naturally on its own when one can not reforge it all. I have more rage then I'll ever need so don't need to focus on rage generating abilities. I do not focus on gears so heavily as the guide did with haste. Your main focus is to survive, everything else is just a cherry on top. And I feel haste is a cherry on top. Should not be grabbing gears specifically because it has haste. Funny thing is you order it low in the list. Then note that some of the gears in the list to get to have haste. When there are other gears in that same list that have Mastery/Crit. Yet you suggest for them to get the haste one. True you can reforge it. However, should not tell others to get it and reforge over a Mastery/Crit item. Son of Ursoc is by far a better one to have. Aside from the math. There are many times in raids where a no cd to taunt comes in handy regardless of math. Theres a time when spamming abilities comes in handy regardless of math. Through all of this even the best Guardians will still have tons of rage period. So there is no logic in grabbing something to generate it. And yes I know its stated based on situations. However, given that whole aspect there really is no situation that Son of Ursoc would not benefit in. So no longer sits at, "oh for certain situations". Over a ability in total to have. Thank you very much for posting the guide and found it interesting. Gearing wise I feel is a bit screwy at points. Overall a nice guide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is much debate and confusion on this topic. Beyond that, however, there is also the fact that in practice, the difference between prioritising haste over hit, for example, is going to have a very small impact. I'm speaking about reforging/gemming-wise, not picking items with no hit.

Our website and Ask Mr. Robot are currently not in agreement on Guardian Druid statistics. They are still conducting further research into the matter.

I have changed the stat priority in our guide (the change should go up later tonight) to grant much more weight to Hit/Expertise Rating, and Critical Strike Rating. It seems like it is much more beneficial for survival to boost rage generation, than it is to get avoidance stats, or Mastery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There has been recent developments so I thought I would update you guys (according to me)

Crit 0.0416

Agi 0.0296

Dodge^ 0.0251

Hit* 0.0225

Exp* 0.0225

Haste 0.0204

Mastery^ 0.0109

Armor^ 0.0063

*Before caps

^ 100% dodgable or physical damage

Stat Weights: Must Tova: Guardian Stat Weights

SD vs FR: Must Tova: Savage Defence vs Frenzied Regen

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google....Z6UDkxYVE#gid=0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There has been recent developments so I thought I would update you guys (according to me)

Crit 0.0416

Agi 0.0296

Dodge^ 0.0251

Hit* 0.0225

Exp* 0.0225

Haste 0.0204

Mastery^ 0.0109

Armor^ 0.0063

*Before caps

^ 100% dodgable or physical damage

Stat Weights: Must Tova: Guardian Stat Weights

SD vs FR: Must Tova: Savage Defence vs Frenzied Regen

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google....Z6UDkxYVE#gid=0

Let me just say that the understanding that you have of your class blows my mind. The numbers still confuse me to no end so I just have a few newb questions.

First Question: With the weights you have posted I should leave crit alone as it is our strongest stat and reforge mastery to dodge, reducing my avoidance but increasing my rage which in turn allows me to use SD/FR more often?

More Questions still to come.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

gem for striaght crit? are you on crack?

Two posts above yours you can find a post which presents some stat weights, and the way they were reached, which supports a very high value for Critical Strike Rating. That said, I changed the guide to suggest pure Critical Strike Rating before that, based on what I also feel is a very high value for this statistic (and most high-end raiding Guardian Druids are doing the same).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Eranos

HoTW also allows you to cast Rejuvenation on yourself while in bear form. That might be worthwhile to add to the guide since I have noticed that popping that once or twice while HoTW is on tends to basically give me 30-40k health with just 1 Rejuvenation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

gem for striaght crit? are you on crack?

As stated before, Rage generating stats are very common right now because our mastery and dodge can only mitigate a specific set of incoming damage. Gemming into crit allows us to have tons more rage to heal ourselves with.

Basically (and the unfortunate truth) you have to be a big fluffy sponge and take the damage to the face while licking your wounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know it seems crazy but 1 crit gives more mitigation than 1 dodge or 1 mastery...

having more crit means more uptime on SD that mitigates over all more or more healing from FR that outheals the damage you would take from 1 dodge.

Take a look at the math on spreadsheets from the link to my link in my sig.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Langrisser

If we go with Tova's stat weights, or the general idea of crit being valuable, then I think it's worth noting that skinning as a profession grants 480 crit placing it much higher on the list then is traditional. Additonally Leatherworkers can use Fur Lining - Agility and Primal Leg Reinforcements

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blacksmithing would be better then skinning becasue you get 2 sockets which is +320 crit each

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good point, I've been looking for a reason to switch my ench that I've had forever.

Edited by Tova

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest jtrack3d

I'm not sure what relationship you have with AskMrRobot though you reference them as a means to reforge you character. Recently you updated the priority of stats in some interesting ways while Mr. Robot's PvE recommendations are mostly dodge.

"Dodge Rating, Parry Rating, and Mastery Rating provide excellent damage reduction, but we do not currently advise prioritising them over rage generation-increasing stats."

Do you have a recommended "custom" stats configuration for Mr. Robot which aims more toward "rage generation-increasing stats"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The guides are set up based on community feedback. Everyday players are finding better ways of doing stuff, so if there is a better/easier setup, it might become the standard for how to reach full potential.

For the critical/mastery subject, on this page one of our members provided excellent stats based on our class.

(Link to the post) http://www.icy-veins...t__20#entry9529

Edited by Sneakyferret

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what relationship you have with AskMrRobot though you reference them as a means to reforge you character. Recently you updated the priority of stats in some interesting ways while Mr. Robot's PvE recommendations are mostly dodge.

"Dodge Rating, Parry Rating, and Mastery Rating provide excellent damage reduction, but we do not currently advise prioritising them over rage generation-increasing stats."

Do you have a recommended "custom" stats configuration for Mr. Robot which aims more toward "rage generation-increasing stats"?

I'd like to comment a bit on this.

We have a friendly association with Ask Mr. Robot. We have a great deal of confidence in that stat priorities and reforge/enchant/gamming suggestions that they make (in general), because their methods for obtaining them are very solid. When we first began recommending them on our pages, there were several discrepancies between the suggestions our two websites were making regarding stats, gems etc. This was due to one or the other website not being fully up to date at the time, and sometimes due to differences of opinion on some matters.

Since then, we've been going through a long process of harmonizing the two websites, with the aim of giving the absolute best possible advice we can to our readers. We have completed this task for the vast majority of classes and specs (Brewmaster Monks, Blood DKs, Resto and Guardian Druids being the only ones left), and in almost every case the two sites will be in agreement. We haven't completed harmonizing all specs yet because in a few cases the people behind Ask Mr. Robot still have further simulations to run.

Having said all that, we are not under any kind of contractual obligation with Ask Mr. Robot, and if there is ever a case where we believe that we can make a better recommendation to our readers than they can or are willing to, then you can rest assured that we will. This is the case currently for Guardian Druids, where we feel that Critical Strike Rating is pretty much the best statistic after primary stats/capping Hit. Ask Mr. Robot allows you to edit the stat weights on their website to whatever you want, so if you fiddle with it a bit you can probably make it recommend the same thing we are doing in this guide, and then it will optimize your character accordingly.

I hope that clears some things up.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Madvlad

ok i saw your point on gemming Crit, so I did and delt with it. Now I take a lil peak at Mr. Robot and it tells me to gem straight stamina?!?!?! I thought you two we're connected? And im not some poor green geared druid tank. my ilv 473. So who's right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok i saw your point on gemming Crit, so I did and delt with it. Now I take a lil peak at Mr. Robot and it tells me to gem straight stamina?!?!?! I thought you two we're connected? And im not some poor green geared druid tank. my ilv 473. So who's right?

Please see Vlad's post, right before yours. Hopefully that should explain what you're seeing :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Madvlad

I saw Vlads post, but yesterday Mr. Robot had me gemming me Dodge, now today Stamina. So his post explains nothing." we've been going through a long process of harmonizing the two websites" doesnt look like your guys are doin a very good job and are confusing alot of ppl that follow you both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw Vlads post, but yesterday Mr. Robot had me gemming me Dodge, now today Stamina. So his post explains nothing." we've been going through a long process of harmonizing the two websites" doesnt look like your guys are doin a very good job and are confusing alot of ppl that follow you both.

On the other hand. it's possible that something else happened at AMR. It's possible that they changed their algorithm subtly, any number of things are possible. Furthermore, it might still be down to the harmonizing process (I imagine it goes through several iterations before it's correct).

The confusion is unfortunate, but it will be inevitable when things are changing around. If this is because of the IV process, I'm sure it's unintended (in which case thanks for your report). If not, then I'm sure it will get sorted out eventually. Patience would be prudent at this juncture.

Finally, I'm not actually a member of the IV team - I'm just a humble moderator trying to help people out. In that sense Vlad, Damien et al aren't "my" people. I'd also appreciate it if we all kept a civil tone in this forum.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw Vlads post, but yesterday Mr. Robot had me gemming me Dodge, now today Stamina. So his post explains nothing." we've been going through a long process of harmonizing the two websites" doesnt look like your guys are doin a very good job and are confusing alot of ppl that follow you both.

1) As I mentioned in my post, our Guardian stats are NOT harmonized with Ask Mr Robot's. We (us and Ask Mr Robot) haven't had a chance to discuss the differences and sort them out, because they are somewhat busy and haven't yet completed all their Guardian simulations. I advise the stat priority we list in our guide. Since we are not harmonized with Mr Robot, they will suggest a different one.

2) Ask Mr Robot is constantly improving and optimising their own algorithms. Stat priorities are a far more complex and difficult issue than many people realize, and it's not always so simple to just throw out a priority and have everyone agree with it. So, IF changes happen from day to the next with what Mr Robot is suggesting, that's only because they're constantly trying to make things better and more accurate. This is commendable, even if it ends up costing you a bit more gold in reforging/regemming.

3) This thread has been all about the Crit gemming for a few posts now, which should have been enough to clear up any confusions you might have had. As I said, you can edit the stat weights on Mr Robot and get it to optimise precisely using our priority.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hooray for Vlad.

Remember guys that any set of priorities is never more than a basic guideline. Each boss has different mechanics that change these priorities in a major way. Use guidelines as a tool in combination with your own experience. Also talk to your healers. Do they perfer a spikey tank that takes less damage overall or a more stable tank that takes more damage? If healers are totally geared towards mana regen, they may actually prefer you to be more stable and take some more overall damage. No set of priorities can ever give you an answer for all bosses and all group setups.

Edited by stitcherr
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Luetsuun

Excellent guide; however, I think you might have overlooked the key aspect of Heart of the WIld, the ability to cast Rejuvenation without shifting to caster form. This effectively gives you 45 seconds of spamming rejuv, on yourself or another player while in Bear form. Can be very useful at then end of a boss fight when healers are low on mana / dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent guide; however, I think you might have overlooked the key aspect of Heart of the WIld, the ability to cast Rejuvenation without shifting to caster form. This effectively gives you 45 seconds of spamming rejuv, on yourself or another player while in Bear form. Can be very useful at then end of a boss fight when healers are low on mana / dead.

I personally love Heart of the Wild.

20k ticks 40k crits for heals :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent guide; however, I think you might have overlooked the key aspect of Heart of the WIld, the ability to cast Rejuvenation without shifting to caster form. This effectively gives you 45 seconds of spamming rejuv, on yourself or another player while in Bear form. Can be very useful at then end of a boss fight when healers are low on mana / dead.

Thank you. I'll make it a point to incorporate this into the guide :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Tomseno
      Raid/Class Spots Are Open To Any Applicant If The Player Is The Right Fit
      A guild formed with an ambition for progression and a love for M+ we decided to make the move from Silvermoon Alliance and form a guild to take our focus to the next level, Cutting Edge in 10.1 being the next step.
      We believe in building a guild by recruit players of a similar goal and mentality whether it be for raiding or for push score in Mythic plus. We value loyalty, honesty and a positive attitude towards setbacks. Communication skills are an absolute must.
      Raid Schedule
      Wednesday 20:30-23:00 Sunday 20:30-23:00
      Current Progression
      9/9HC 5/9M
      What are we looking for recruitment wise?
      We're currently open to recruiting DPS classes listed above, as we aim to solidify a stable 25-player roster. We're looking to provide competition to existing members and choose the best 25 players to proceed with for next tier.
      Contact Information:
      Discord; tomsen and lora1506
      Think you'd be a good fit?
      If you believe that you are a player that is looking to achieve the same goals as us then why not contact us and see if we can achieve our goals together!
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Outlaw Rogue Leveling Guide.
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Shadow Priest Leveling Guide.
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Vengeance Demon Hunter Leveling Guide.
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Holy Priest Leveling Guide.
×
×
  • Create New...