[Archived] Survival Hunter 5.4

[Xinto 18]

Just looking at the opener, it only lists ES once over a 8+ second period. Surely it should be used on cd or at least before readiness is cast to be most effective.

[dagnay 0]

In the Opening Sequence, towards the end of the sequence is Dire Beast - Rabid - Rediness. I've been using Dire Beast - with Rabid on auto cast - then Rediness - then Dire Beast again imediatly after Readiness. I get two beasts out at the same time when I test on dummies. Is there any reason anyone can see this is not a good idea?

[Guest sikamiq]

isn't haste better than crit nowadays, with rppm trinkets and metagem? guide says is approved by kennyloggins, but stat priority is wrong. even he is reforging haste > crit:)

[Guest Zeherah]

Just an update based on the latest hotfixes to stampede, it no longer matters if you stack Rapid Fire with Stampede since the pets now only do auto-attacks and the haste given by Rapid Fire is ranged only which the pets don't inherit (prior to this change Stampede benefitted from increased focus regen provided by Rapid Fire, but they no longer use their focus for anything).

[Guest Heimfelt Bronzebeard]

I tried your opener a few times but it doesnt work focuswize, you don't have enough focus to cast aMoC when you get to it for instance.

I found this a much better opener that you can excecute in order without having to wait/cobra for focus and with a clear place for LnL proccs accounted for in the opener;

0. Prepot + (precast cobra shot if you can time it right & have 2 set tier 15)

1. Black Arrow

2. Serpent Sting

3. Rapid Fire + Stampede + (synapse springs if engineer)

4. Explosive Shot (LnL always proccs here, use em)

5. A Murder of Crows & Rabid

6. Dire Beast

7. Glavie Toss

8. Readiness

9. etc

Hope you find this useful, and feel free to tweak it if you see an improvement somwhere

[Guest Katye]

So maybe my Skada is just missing something, but casting LnL back to back is getting me only 7-8 ticks of ES instead of the full 9. Sometimes when I weave one AS in between the second and third ES I'll get 9 ticks, but it's still unreliable. The only way I can get Skada to record a full 9 ticks of ES is the old ES > AS > ES > AS > ES cycle.

Explain?

[Stoove 347]

So maybe my Skada is just missing something, but casting LnL back to back is getting me only 7-8 ticks of ES instead of the full 9. Sometimes when I weave one AS in between the second and third ES I'll get 9 ticks, but it's still unreliable. The only way I can get Skada to record a full 9 ticks of ES is the old ES > AS > ES > AS > ES cycle.

Explain?

An issue like this might benefit more from it's own thread in the Hunter section. :)

[Guest Anjan Bhowmik]

Dire Beast shouldn't be part of SV hunter's rotations, so long u have 4 T15 pieces. Thrill of Hunt should be it. 3 free AS, along with that free nature damage, outweighs direbeast without worring about an extra button push. besides, for coming T16 set 2P bonus, u will be spamming AS anyway

[Tehstool 10]

Dire Beast shouldn't be part of SV hunter's rotations, so long u have 4 T15 pieces. Thrill of Hunt should be it. 3 free AS, along with that free nature damage, outweighs direbeast without worring about an extra button push. besides, for coming T16 set 2P bonus, u will be spamming AS anyway 

That's wrong. The 4 piece is real ppm. Which means regardless of how many arcane shots you fire off (or don't fire off) you will still get roughly the same number on procs. For example if it's 5 real ppm, you will get, on average 5 procs a minute. Both fervor and dire beast are better than ToTH.

So maybe my Skada is just missing something, but casting LnL back to back is getting me only 7-8 ticks of ES instead of the full 9. Sometimes when I weave one AS in between the second and third ES I'll get 9 ticks, but it's still unreliable. The only way I can get Skada to record a full 9 ticks of ES is the old ES > AS > ES > AS > ES cycle. Explain?

You lose ticks, but you don't lose damage. It is better to just do ES three times in a row.

[Guest Fiannor]

I tried your opener a few times but it doesnt work focuswize, you don't have enough focus to cast aMoC when you get to it for instance. I found this a much better opener that you can excecute in order without having to wait/cobra for focus and with a clear place for LnL proccs accounted for in the opener; 0. Prepot + (precast cobra shot if you can time it right & have 2 set tier 15) 1. Black Arrow 2. Serpent Sting 3. Rapid Fire + Stampede + (synapse springs if engineer) 4. Explosive Shot (LnL always proccs here, use em) 5. A Murder of Crows & Rabid 6. Dire Beast 7. Glavie Toss 8. Readiness 9. etc Hope you find this useful, and feel free to tweak it if you see an improvement somwhere

Nice post, thanks. I had the same problem trying the recommended opener, and always ran out of focus. I assumed I was doing something wrong until I did the math and found that the recommended opener uses 75 focus immediately before you have to spend 60 on AMoC. Yours seems to work better for me.

[Guest Atro]

SV is now better than BM

[Xinto 18]

SV is now better than BM

Evidence?

 

Under what circumstance?

 

There is a lot of data to the contrary, SV is more forgiving so mistakes have less of an impact on dps.

[bataa976 0]

SV is now better than BM

 

With the patch 5.4, I see the quite opposite of this.

 

I believe new trinket mechnisms /those drop from SoO/  will play vital role in this patch for almost every class, especially for Hunters.

 

Assurance of Consequence /which increases the cooldown regeneration rate/ will directly increase DPS via increasing the uptime of Bestial Wrath for BM hunters. With Heroic-Warforged Assurance of Consequence BM will almost get 50% uptime on Bestial Wrath. But for SV it only decreases cooldown of Black Arrow, and RF version alone will give 100% uptime for Black Arrow, which would only increase DPS so much, and further upgrade/decrease of cooldown will have no effect.

 

I could be over-estimating the Assurance of Consequence, so guys please share your comments on this.

[Guest Guts]

Nice post, thanks. I had the same problem trying the recommended opener, and always ran out of focus. I assumed I was doing something wrong until I did the math and found that the recommended opener uses 75 focus immediately before you have to spend 60 on AMoC. Yours seems to work better for me.

I've been doing prepot, macro for cds (RF + Stampede + Syn Springs), SS, AMoC, Black Arrow, Dire Beast, Glaive Toss, Explosive Shot, CS. Dire Beast gives you focus back and you can get all your dots applied to the target with your buffs

[Guest Spherion]

It does (or did) work on raid bosses. You can test it on the raid boss training dummy, too. The trap goes off, which is when you proc LnL. The dummy (and boss) is never actually slowed by the trap, though.

And yes, if you set down and Explosive Trap too, all the better, as long as you do it early enough that it doesn't interfere with your Black Arrow.

Personally, I just wouldn't bother with macros for such small benefits. Macroing your trinkets into things may help, but I don't know what to say - I've raided progression on my hunters and I've never had the need to use macros to use all my abilities without wasting any time. And I actually enjoyed the control I have over things. The only thing I macroed was Synapse Springs

Thanks for this. You are of course, correct, but your post is most informative

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But simulations clearly show Dire Beast outperforming Thrill of the Hunt. I did not forget that Thrill of the Hunt can improve AoE DPS, but this is generally a secondary consideration to single target DPS. I'll add a mention about how, if the AoE DPS in the fight is crucial, Thrill of the Hunt may be better. Thanks

 I also was wondering about this.

 

Have you factored in the great synergy of Thrill of the Hunt with the hunter two piece bonus thus allowing for more frequent rapid fires? 

[Guest Jaimaster]

And the value of ToTH for multishot spam, of course.

 

The recommendation for ironhawk over bond, and the comment that bond is underwhelming in its current form, have struck me as absurd for the entire tier. I don't raid anymore - got an evenings job - but I'm subbing for an old friend's HM galak progression right now. Overall for the night bond has contributed nearly 18 million healing, while total damage taken is just 6.5m.

Simple maths says that a 10% mitigation would have saved just 650k damage. You are throwing away 18 million healing for 650k in mitigation. That is completely and utterly insensibly insane.

Unless you are soaking something that needs the extra 10% to be comfortable, there are exceptionally few circumstances I can think of where Ironhawk is going to outperform spirit bond. At 600k HP (in my rubbish gear) you are taking 18k heals every two seconds - a 10% mitigation means you need to be eating 90k dps for IB to overtake bond.

Bond is better, all ends up and twice on Sundays.

[Guest Jinxd]

And the value of ToTH for multishot spam, of course.

 

The recommendation for ironhawk over bond, and the comment that bond is underwhelming in its current form, have struck me as absurd for the entire tier. I don't raid anymore - got an evenings job - but I'm subbing for an old friend's HM galak progression right now. Overall for the night bond has contributed nearly 18 million healing, while total damage taken is just 6.5m.

Simple maths says that a 10% mitigation would have saved just 650k damage. You are throwing away 18 million healing for 650k in mitigation. That is completely and utterly insensibly insane.

Unless you are soaking something that needs the extra 10% to be comfortable, there are exceptionally few circumstances I can think of where Ironhawk is going to outperform spirit bond. At 600k HP (in my rubbish gear) you are taking 18k heals every two seconds - a 10% mitigation means you need to be eating 90k dps for IB to overtake bond.

Bond is better, all ends up and twice on Sundays.

keep in mind most of that was written before 5.4 was actually out... but i agree... to me the bonds seem much better in most situations

[Guest Anjan Bhowmik]

I see Ticking Ebon Detonator as BiS trink for SV. How so? what makes TeD more better than AoC? I can understand Haromm, the multistrike is awesome. but AoC, benefits outweigh TeD by tons. Any thoughts?

[Orthios 271]

I see Ticking Ebon Detonator as BiS trink for SV. How so? what makes TeD more better than AoC? I can understand Haromm, the multistrike is awesome. but AoC, benefits outweigh TeD by tons. Any thoughts?

Note - I don't sim anything, so this is just me thinking.

AoC reduces cds, and for Sv, black arrow gets cd reduction.  In order to maintain 100% uptime on black arrows DoT and LnL proc chances, all that is needed is the LFR version.  After that it is simply, hey! I can black arrow with more leniency and not have to worry as much about the DoT falling off.  I was wondering the same as you until I thought about this. 

[Guest munkmunk]

Crystal of insanity is a better "flask" to use if you can get lucky and get one. Gives 500 bonus to ALL stats for an hour with a 15 minute cooldown.

[Krazyito 521]

Crystal of insanity is a better "flask" to use if you can get lucky and get one. Gives 500 bonus to ALL stats for an hour with a 15 minute cooldown.

No, just. No.

For ANY class, a 1000 point boost to your MAIN STATS for an hour through death is worth way more than that 500 point boost to all stats.

That's not even to mention that alchemist would be screwed over since they wouldn't even be benefiting from their profession perk.

Sure it works for non raids, don't have to waste consumables, but for raiding? Try telling this to any serious guild or raider and see how far you get.

[Fouton 266]

The only time the crystal of insanity comes close to being a good flask is a healer that could use a bit of spirit, but after that bit they need to stack intellect, giving you 500 spirit, int and stamina. However this will never come to practical use in progression raiding. You'll die, it'll be on CD, and you'll then use a real flask. It is nice for farm content though.

[Guest Tasonish]

Wondering if anyone has tried it but using the 2peice set bonus(teir 16) with Thirll of the hunt vs using Dire Beast

[Guest Internjetz]

May I ask why the best stat would be crit>mastery>haste, but the BiS weapon is crit+haste and not crit+mastery?

[Fouton 266]

I could be wrong, but I believe mastery and haste are so close in value that the main thing to notice is that the haste bow has 250 more crit than the mastery bow.