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[Archived] Fury Warrior 5.4

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Guest Ratso

Hi, i just wanted u to think again of ur bis list.

i estimate u calculated every stat relevant with simcraft, and generated a bis list with mr. robot.

which now isnt wrong at all, but u need to take something in calculation, with BiS gear u will reach exp/hit cap an above, what makes it over the cap not as valueable as simcraft calculated but worth equal the stat u reforge it to, u might think now this is crit, but it isnt, its mastery, because after u reforged as much crit on ur gear as possible ur still left with hit/exp points over the cap which u reforge into mastery.

so the BiS is wrong in some cases.

So the neck should be the one from garalon,

the shoulders non set from amber shaper,

the wrist is almost equal to the heroic elite ones, but only the hof hc wrist,

gloves should be the set gloves,

the ring#1 is then one from blade lord,

and of course the offhand should be the one frome bladelord as u cant socket 500 strength twice.

ps: to answer the previous post: the exp bonuses are different for each weapon, and so are they for the main/off hand spells

pps: the cloak ling is wrong Posted Image

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Okay, so I'm building a fury warrior, and I spend EXTENSIVE time on these forums, and I run across an inconsistency. If crit > str (which it is), then wouldn't 480 crit from skinning be superior to 320 str from anything else? Making skinning and blacksmithing hands-down best choices?

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Guest Losas

I have not done the simcraft, but I can verify that you can CAP OUT strength...For instance, I am so capped on strength, that a flask of Winter's bite does little for my DPS. According to forums, HASTE is the next strength to go for in 5.2, but until then, reforging and getting Crit higher is the way to go....Does anyone know how to calc out Strength cap for 5.1?

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I just have one simple question.

Is it better to use two one-hand weapons or two Two-hand weapons?

As i understand it, TH is slower but more DMG per hit.

Edited by Mutterkorn

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You should just use whichever one oyu have best weapons for. If you have equivalent weapons, go one-handed, it is slightly better than 2hand. Plus, misses are less punishing with 1 handers, you have a much steadier rage income.

-Rage

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Guest Steelturtle

Second Wind is far more powerful than this article would lead you to believe. It has multiple uses, not just in raiding but PvP and the environment as well.

1. It allows you to AFK just about anywhere. second wind heals you faster than any world npc can damage you, as I know from experience. this means that as long as you don't log out, you can stop playing at a moments notice to deal with anything in the outside world.

2. unlike most other melee DPS classes, when facing a single opponent (and sometimes even 2), you don't have to worry about your health bar. anyone else would have to keep an eye on their health so they can activate a defensive ability. Second wind makes this a moot point.

3. in extended fights, if you take a heavy hit that brings you close to death, you can hamstring your opponent and then run away for a few seconds. this gives second wind enough time to bring you back from the brink without using a potion. Because Second Wind has no rage requirements, you can kill opponents that would otherwise require 3 people to defeat. (I have actually done this)

4. It allows you to run several difficult battles in a row without worrying about death, because your health will always come back in time for the next one.

5. in terms of raw healing power, it blows the other 2 abilities out of the water. Second Wind can heal you for 90% of your health over the course of 30 seconds, assuming constant damage. In comparison, Impending Victory and Enraged Regeneration give you 10% every 30 seconds. and require your attention long enough to activate them at the right time, while Impending Victory uses a global cool down, and Enraged Regeneration costs rage, unless used while enraged.

6. this ability makes you infuriatingly hard to kill in PvP, as escaping from an enemy for even a few seconds can make you strong enough to face them again, and force them to start over on trying to kill you. >:)

7. it allows you to wade into and slaughter a pack of NPCs that would leave anyone else as a corpse.

8. In a raid, any stray hit that almost killed you would put you out of the fight for a much shorter period of time than if you had to rely on your groups healers, who are busy keeping the tanks alive, or on bandages, using one of your rare and/or expensive potions, or food.

9. When you're stunned or rooted, Second Wind generates extra rage, something the other two don't do at all.

If I think of anything else, I'll reply to this.

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I think I have to agree with Steelturtle.

Even from a raiding point of view, Second Wind is, in my opinion, the best choice out of the three. I started this tier constantly switching between Imprending Victory and Enraged Regen, but ended up Switching to SW for Blade Lord, and never loooked back.

Whereas yes, the other two give you more control over your healing, and *may* give more healing in total in a fight, they both need to be activated, which limits their usefulness (You don't always have a target to acttack when you need healing or you don't always have 60 rage or Zerker Rage off cooldown). SW, on the other hand, will activate itself as soon as you go below 35%, and moreover, it is free and has no CD.

Ressource wise, SW is the outright winner imo.

On top of that, it can be used to remove stress of your healers on mechanics where they would need to heal you immediately and focus on other people instead. For example, the 2nd phase on Blade Lord. With SW, you don't even need to be healed and can run to the other side all by yourself, and still survive long enough for your healers to do the trip on their own before healing you. On Garalon, after a crush, you don't need to worry about the pheromones, as SW completely negates the ticks (up to aorund 10-12 stacks of the debuff). On Will of the Emperor, if you can dance and don't have any rages on you, you don't even need healing (or barely at all) during Titan Gas. And the list goes on and on.

Of course I'm not saying that IV or ER are not useful, but I firmly believe that SW can save your butt much more than the other two ever will.

(Also, there's all the non-raiding side which Steelturtle pretty much covered, save maybe the Brawler's Guild, where once again SW is an absolute must especially on the higher ranks. I spent the whole Battletron fight below 35%, and yet he didn't kill me)

-Rage

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There is one thing I noticed in your guide which I think a bit of better explanation might actually make much more awesome. (Ok, I'm tired and I'm not sure if this sentence makes sense, I'm gonna blame the fact that English is my 2nd language)

There is more than just a rotation to Fury Warrior, there is a "feel" to the rotation and that's what makes you do awesome DPS.

The key is to have a rage conservation phase: - Using BT on cd, RB (only if you have 2 charges or if the last charge you have is going to drop before CS is available again), bloodsurged WS, and using non procced WS at 90+ rage or HS if you'Re just about to cap rage. During that phase you can also use Zerker Rage if you'Re not enraged to for a RB proc if you have only 1 stack and it's about to drop. You can fill empty GCD's with Heroic throw, dragon roar, and IV (should you have taken that talent, which I didn't, see my lat post Posted Image )

Then comes the mini-burst, which happens every time CS is available. This is where you want to use all your available CD's (except DR, since it ignores armor) and use all that rage you saved up. Ideally, you'll have used BT just before using CS, and one of those 2 will have enraged you, which on top of the RB charge you've been saving, should give you at least 2 RB's during the CS. If you have Zerker available, you can push it to force a 3rd RB during CS. On top of that, you want to use as many off-the-GCD abilities as your rage allows (Heroic Leap and HS).

The execute phase then becomes not using rage on anything except RB and Execute. You want to kinda keep the same rotation, but remove WS (even the bloodsurged ones, unless you really have nothing else to cast) and HS.

Whereas your DPS priority kinda reflects this rotation, I don't think it insists enough on the 2 phases you have to follow back and forth to achieve maximum DPS.

If there's anything I can make clearer, just let me know, I'll be glad to try and explain more.

-Rage

Edited by ragebarr

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This guide is all sorts of wrong. There are a number of mistakes, as well as ignoring of a number of nuances that make for proper fury play. Just three examples:

Another thing, for fury, icy veins has CS being used on CD pretty much, instead of covering the proper fury warrior use of CS (Which is have 1 RB proc going into BT-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB+3-4HS and a HL)

BB should not always be used on CD. Since you're not hitting CS every 20 seconds you should delay the 2nd BB for 6-10 seconds to line up with your 3rd CS.

B.rage is really ONLY to be used for two purposes: Activating a RB proc during a RB, or staying enraged during a CS-4x execute phase if the BT before didn't crit.

The admins would be wise to contact me so we can go over their guide and fix it.

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Ok it still has some key problems. For one, the CS phase combo is wrong on a number of very key points.

One: The CS combo actually starts with the BT before a CS. You bank 1 RB blow before this starts, so you have 4 possible ways to proc the 2 extra RBs you need (1x BT before, 1 CS, 1 BT after, brage.) So the rotation for a CS phase is this: BT-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB. This means you delay CS and use every 21.5 seconds or 22.5 seconds to line up with BT on a 4.5 second CD. You should never aim for 2x BT in a CS phase. If the BT before the CS doesn't crit and you're lower rage (below 80) wait an extra 4.5 seconds and try again UNLESS the RB proc you have banked is going to drop.

THUS, with the number in parenthesis being RB charges after the ability is cast, the ideal situation is as follows: (1)-BT(2)-CS(2)-RB(1)-BT(2)-RB(1)-RB(0)-BT(1)-back into normal rotation.

Another note is that since you're not hitting CS exactly ever 20 seconds, you're 3rd BB should be delayed, although not more than 10 seconds (generally I need to wait 6 seconds for mine to realign on the 3rd CS.) Still make sure you don't DR during a CS.

The setup for the guide is kind of weird too. You don't handle fury as "No CS" and "CS" phases. You handle it as "preparing for CS" and "Pre-CS-CS-After" with the later being between 5 and 8 GCDs long. (remember, you can NEVER save the RB charge if the BT immediatly after CS debuff drops crits, so you're better off just spending it right away.)

Oh, another thing. WS>HS for damage, but HS wins if you don't have the GCD and need to prevent rage cap OR during a CS, where you want at least 3.

Finally, you never use cleave. Ever.

So it seems better, but it still needs a lot of work before I start referring people back here instead of just having them come directly me to.

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Ok it still has some key problems. For one, the CS phase combo is wrong on a number of very key points.

One: The CS combo actually starts with the BT before a CS. You bank 1 RB blow before this starts, so you have 4 possible ways to proc the 2 extra RBs you need (1x BT before, 1 CS, 1 BT after, brage.) So the rotation for a CS phase is this: BT-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB. This means you delay CS and use every 21.5 seconds or 22.5 seconds to line up with BT on a 4.5 second CD. You should never aim for 2x BT in a CS phase. If the BT before the CS doesn't crit and you're lower rage (below 80) wait an extra 4.5 seconds and try again UNLESS the RB proc you have banked is going to drop.

THUS, with the number in parenthesis being RB charges after the ability is cast, the ideal situation is as follows: (1)-BT(2)-CS(2)-RB(1)-BT(2)-RB(1)-RB(0)-BT(1)-back into normal rotation.

Another note is that since you're not hitting CS exactly ever 20 seconds, you're 3rd BB should be delayed, although not more than 10 seconds (generally I need to wait 6 seconds for mine to realign on the 3rd CS.) Still make sure you don't DR during a CS.

The setup for the guide is kind of weird too. You don't handle fury as "No CS" and "CS" phases. You handle it as "preparing for CS" and "Pre-CS-CS-After" with the later being between 5 and 8 GCDs long. (remember, you can NEVER save the RB charge if the BT immediatly after CS debuff drops crits, so you're better off just spending it right away.)

Oh, another thing. WS>HS for damage, but HS wins if you don't have the GCD and need to prevent rage cap OR during a CS, where you want at least 3.

Finally, you never use cleave. Ever.

So it seems better, but it still needs a lot of work before I start referring people back here instead of just having them come directly me to.

The guide received an update which should address most of your issues. Can you tell me if you still see problems? And for the record, I don't agree that you should never ever use Cleave. I'm not saying to use Cleave in AoE more than you would normally use HS in single target, just that when you would use an HS in single target, replace it with a Cleave. Do you not agree with this?

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The guide received an update which should address most of your issues. Can you tell me if you still see problems? And for the record, I don't agree that you should never ever use Cleave. I'm not saying to use Cleave in AoE more than you would normally use HS in single target, just that when you would use a

n HS in single target, replace it with a Cleave. Do you not agree with this?

No, you never, ever use cleave. It simply isn't worth the keybind for the very rare and few times it could be a DPS gain. Ever. No with 2 targets, not with 4. Compare logs of warriors, you won't see em ever use cleave. Heck I even asked a few to double check, and checked over logs.

There are several reasons. First, the times you'd use cleave are times where you'd have already screwed your rotation badly and let your rage get too high in an AOE fight. If there are only 2 targets, you're going to be using WW on free GCDs to dump rage as needed, and spamming HS during CS. If there are more targets, your AOE rotation is never going to be rage positive enough to need to dump rage, since you basically BT-WW until you have 1 fewer meat cleaver stacks than targets and RB. WW is a very rage costly ability, unlike the normal rotation which has lots of room for pooling.

Essentially, you're either going to be spending your rage on WW/RBs, doing your normal single target rotation and WWing on free GCDs, or executing.

TL;DR, don't use cleave.

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Overall the guide is much better. One thing is you should be saving b.rage for when you need the extra RB during CS or to keep up enrage during a cs 4x EX phase. Il go more in depth and try to fix other things later.

If you want, just send me PM and I'll give ya my skype so we can chat about what to fix. I was told not to waste my time trying to salvage some of these guides but I think they have potential enough to try before I write them off like Askmrrobot as a lost cause.

Edited by Darkfriend

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Guest Talffury

The macro for Blood bath / synapse springs / dragon roar only seems to be activating blood and roar, the springs never activate. Typing "/use 10" by itself does work however.

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Guest Talffury

The macro for Blood bath / synapse springs / dragon roar only seems to be activating blood and roar, the springs never activate. Typing "/use 10" by itself does work however.

Ignore this, I figured out my issue ;p

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TL;DR, don't use cleave.

The guide says to use cleave in place of heroic strike to dump rage in a two target scenario. That is, specifically, the only time you should use cleave is if you are facing multiple targets and you need to dump rage. Your argument is that cleave is worthless in any scenario where you do not need to dump rage, and that rage dumping is not required in most AoE situations because of the cost of WW, which is quite correct, but the guide doesn't contradict that. If you ever felt inclined to heroic strike in a two target scenario you should absolutely cleave instead. For example, a high rage berserker stance environment where you had more than the necessary amount of incoming rage to sustain weaving WW in between every RB.

It's a very rare case so not really something most players will have to worry about but I don't see any reason to say cleave is "not worth the keybind" just because it's only useful in a very unusual situation.

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Guest Kurathikai

The guide says to use cleave in place of heroic strike to dump rage in a two target scenario. That is, specifically, the only time you should use cleave is if you are facing multiple targets and you need to dump rage. Your argument is that cleave is worthless in any scenario where you do not need to dump rage, and that rage dumping is not required in most AoE situations because of the cost of WW, which is quite correct, but the guide doesn't contradict that. If you ever felt inclined to heroic strike in a two target scenario you should absolutely cleave instead. For example, a high rage berserker stance environment where you had more than the necessary amount of incoming rage to sustain weaving WW in between every RB.

It's a very rare case so not really something most players will have to worry about but I don't see any reason to say cleave is "not worth the keybind" just because it's only useful in a very unusual situation.

As Darkfriend said, even in a 2 target scenario, you will be using Whirlwind to proc Meat Cleaver and Heroic Strike during CS, so there really isn't rage enough for Cleave.

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Guest rakkarage

if crit is better then str when gearing why is str better then crit for food?

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if crit is better then str when gearing why is str better then crit for food?

because the best crit food (inv_misc_food_vendor_greenfishbonescurryGreen Curry Fish) only gives 200 crit while strength food gives 250-300 strength. And I believe that even though crit is better than str, 275 strength beats 200 crit rating anytime.

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Reading these comments along with the guide are very helpful. I realize I may seem like a "scrub" or something asking these questions, but please try not to condescend. I just want professional opinions.

(1) Wild Strike - I use Wild Strike procs between Bloodthirsts, and usually only consume two charges before Blood Thirst to guarantee I don't delay it whatsoever. I rage dump with Heroic Strike in between the use of charges. Would you say this is the proper way of handling Wild Strike? Is consuming the three charges right in a row essential for damage dealing as a fury warrior?

(2) Heroic Strike vs. Wild Strike - If I have ~80-110 rage following a Bloodthirst, should I use a GCD on Wild Strike rather than blowing rage on Heroic Strike?

(3) Colossus Smash - (a.) Lately, I've been pooling rage and saving a raging blow charge before Colossus smash and pretty much cap rage or come very close to it before Colossus Smash. First off, is 100-120 rage a necessary amount to save, or can I dump more rage before hand? (b.) Second off (misc. add-on question), how do you guys keep track of your raging blow charges? I use a program called LUI, and my icon no longer displays a number of charges on the tool tip for whatever reason and I don't know how to change that setting (it's pretty much bartender - and I'm sure all of you use something along those lines).

(4) Blood Bath - You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard from obscure sources that the optimal benefits of Blood Bath compared to Avatar require perfect play to match up. Is this true? And I see a poster macros Blood Bath with Dragon Roar. Is this the ideal time to do so? Or do some of you save it for the CS burst?

(5) Execute Phase - In between CS cooldowns during the execute phase, should I be completely saving rage for the next CS till the cap? Or do you all consume raging blow procs as they come about?

(6) Last Question - Can you give me an approximate time to halt rage dumping/raging blow consumption between CS cooldowns? (i.e - "don't spend raging blow x amounts of seconds before CS is up.")

Thanks a ton, guys. Sorry this is so long. I understand if you only want to tackle one or two of these at a time.

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Guest Choke'n'Poke

I want to know if there is any way to have a 1 button macro for single target use that has like 5 or 6 abilities, and is spammable. any suggestions?

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Reading these comments along with the guide are very helpful. I realize I may seem like a "scrub" or something asking these questions, but please try not to condescend. I just want professional opinions.

(1) Wild Strike - I use Wild Strike procs between Bloodthirsts, and usually only consume two charges before Blood Thirst to guarantee I don't delay it whatsoever. I rage dump with Heroic Strike in between the use of charges. Would you say this is the proper way of handling Wild Strike? Is consuming the three charges right in a row essential for damage dealing as a fury warrior?

(2) Heroic Strike vs. Wild Strike - If I have ~80-110 rage following a Bloodthirst, should I use a GCD on Wild Strike rather than blowing rage on Heroic Strike?

(3) Colossus Smash - (a.) Lately, I've been pooling rage and saving a raging blow charge before Colossus smash and pretty much cap rage or come very close to it before Colossus Smash. First off, is 100-120 rage a necessary amount to save, or can I dump more rage before hand? (b.) Second off (misc. add-on question), how do you guys keep track of your raging blow charges? I use a program called LUI, and my icon no longer displays a number of charges on the tool tip for whatever reason and I don't know how to change that setting (it's pretty much bartender - and I'm sure all of you use something along those lines).

(4) Blood Bath - You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard from obscure sources that the optimal benefits of Blood Bath compared to Avatar require perfect play to match up. Is this true? And I see a poster macros Blood Bath with Dragon Roar. Is this the ideal time to do so? Or do some of you save it for the CS burst?

(5) Execute Phase - In between CS cooldowns during the execute phase, should I be completely saving rage for the next CS till the cap? Or do you all consume raging blow procs as they come about?

(6) Last Question - Can you give me an approximate time to halt rage dumping/raging blow consumption between CS cooldowns? (i.e - "don't spend raging blow x amounts of seconds before CS is up.")

Thanks a ton, guys. Sorry this is so long. I understand if you only want to tackle one or two of these at a time.

Hey.

The guide goes into quite a bit of detail about all of this so I'm not sure that I can give you any additional info, but anyway.

1) There's no magic bonus for using all 3 charges in a row. Make sure you never delay Bloodthirst. So things like using Bloodthirst, dumping rage with HS to avoid capping, or using up a Raging Blow charge are all better than using Wild Strike.

2) You should basically always dump rage with Heroic Strike. The only reason you'd choose to dump with Wild Strike (that is to say, with no Bloodsurge proc) is if dumping with Heroic Strike isn't allowing you to dump fast enough, in which case you'd use both (since HS is off the global cooldown). That's an unlikely scenario, however.

3) You can surely set something up for showing the Raging Blow charges in TellMeWhen or WeakAuras. As for pooling rage for Colossus Smash, you basically want to have 100-120, yes.

4) The only thing to be said here is that Bloodbath should be up during Colossus Smash.

5) You should make sure to have a full rage pool going into CS. That means you're really only going to be using Bloodthirst and Raging Blow during this time (if you're going to cap rage before CS, you can dump a bit with an Execute).

6) I'll get back to you on this one :)

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Correct me if I am wrong but you shouldn't use raging blow during execute phase? If you have excess rage blow it with Execute. Also by playing a bit you can pretty much estimate how much rage you generate between cs windows which helps with rage dumping as its better to use heroic strike/execute during enrage and not cause you are almost capped at that moment.

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