When World of Warcraft: Forever was announced at BlizzCon, some of the biggest cheers from the crowd was when they introduced brand new dungeons. We’ve already gotten to play through three of them on the Beta, Hall of Thanes, Ruins of Lordaeron, and Excavation Site: Wetlands. But in this week’s episode of the WoW: Forever Podcast we also got a few hints at what Blackmaw Hold has in store!
Blackmaw Hold Location
Like many players have discovered throughout the lifespan of WoW, there is a big, brick gate in Azshara that was never used in Vanilla. When you step close to it, the game will tell you that you’re entering an area called “Timbermaw Hold”. In Forever, this will be the entrance location for the Blackmaw Hold dungeon.
They also clarified that this is not part of the Timbermaw Hold we know in Felwood. This is a separate place, and is not the same tribe.
Rowan Ryde: It’s a space in Azshara. It was originally this big stone gate. And when you came up close, it said Timbermaw Hold, right? It’s this kind of old legend that we wanted to pay off. It’s one of those ones where we looked at it and we said, it’s connected to Timbermaw Hold. But in our lore, it actually isn’t Timbermaw Hold, right? It is Blackmaw Hold, that’s where the place is.
Not a Mega Dungeon
The term “Mega Dungeon” has been thrown around a lot when it comes to WoW Forever speculation. In this episode, not only did the Encounter Designers Jay Hartman and Rowan Ryde say that they do not classify Blackmaw Hold as one, but they also defined what they mean when they say Mega Dungeon:
Rowan Ryde: But, you know, the distinction there is that a Mega Dungeon isn’t necessarily just a dungeon that’s very big. A Mega Dungeon is kind of, to our mind, at least something that’s very interconnected. It can take multiple runs. It can have a wide level range.
So by this definition, Blackrock Spire could be classified as a Mega Dungeon. Players already divide it into Lower and Upper, and there’s definitely enough bosses in there to not complete it in one run.
Interestingly, they compared Blackmaw Hold to Blackrock Depths, saying that it’s probably a bit bigger than BRD. This is somewhat confusing, as BRD definitely fits their definition of a Mega Dungeon: very interconnected, takes multiple runs, and has a wide level range. On the other hand, they clarified that they expect players to complete the dungeon in one session (although probably a long session):
Rowan Ryde: Blackmaw Hold is much more something that is like a tighter level range. You kind of expect to get through it in one session, not necessarily all the quests. You’ll, of course, be repeating the dungeon many times, but you’ll complete it beginning to end in one session. One long session. It’s quite a big place.
Josh Greenfield: Yeah, you’re probably going to be there a while.
Rowan Ryde: Yeah, I don’t want to undersell that. It is big.
The confusion continues however, as Josh Greenfield (aka “Aggrend”) responded to a player’s post on X asking for “a good BRD-like mega dungeon” with the below:
No matter what Blizzard decides to call it internally, it’s clear that Blackmaw Hold will be massive if it truly is bigger than Blackrock Depths.
Level Range
While Blackrock Depths is an excellent leveling dungeon, it seems like most of our time spend in BMH (is this a good time to start abbreviating it?) will be spent at level 60. There will be quests in the dungeon, so it’s most likely going to be beneficial to run it before you hit max level, but don’t expect to run this dungeon to level from 50-60.
Rowan Ryde: It’s a high level dungeon. I’ll say that much. You’ll be comfortably in there at 60. But you can actually go in a little earlier.
The Enemies
Unsurprisingly, Blackmaw Hold is a stronghold for Furbolgs. But Rowan revealed that this is a corrupted tribe that is dealing with demons, and that there are a lot of secrets to uncover.
Rowan Ryde: But it’s Furbolgs, baby.
Jay Hartman: It’s Furbolgs all the way down.
Rowan Ryde: It’s Furbolg heavy. It’s demon heavy. It is a corrupted Furbolg tribe. It has a ton of cool secrets. Very broadly, I can’t say too much yet, unfortunately, but I’m very excited about this place.
The Design
We also learned a little bit about Blizzard’s design philosophy when it comes to BMH. A great TL;DR is this one line: “I like to think of it as being a space before it’s a dungeon.”
Basically, they want to capture the feeling that the dungeon is a real place in the world, and has been a real place for a long time. We just happen to be invading it and calling it a dungeon. This direction fits very well with the overall Forever design direction, and I’m very excited to get to explore this space!
Josh Greenfield: What it comes down to is the Classic design space and the way that we don’t have a lot of dungeons that are hallways, right? Our dungeons are very intricate. They have a lot of different paths. They have a lot of verticality. And I think that’s really the hallmark of early WoW dungeons is that they’re not neat. And I think it’s a thing that these guys and the rest of the team is really leaned into in a spectacular way, is they’re not neat. And that’s really, really cool.
Jay Hartman: We always want them to feel like they fit in the space. Like they exist without the players interference. It shouldn’t feel like when you walk into a place, it was curated for your experience to go in there. It should feel like it just lives in the world.
Rowan Ryde: I like to think of it as being a space before it’s a dungeon. You know, it’s more important that it’s a space in the world and we populate it with stuff that makes sense.
There are still a lot of unknowns for Blackmaw Hold, but this little tease is a great indication of the design direction that the Forever team is taking when it comes to dungeons. Hopefully we will get more sneak peeks like this before the launch of WoW Forever on November 4th, but until then we will have to keep running Excavation Site: Wetlands and the upcoming City of Dalaran on the Beta.
