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RoseyNZ

[Arcane] Facing Guild Kick - DPS help

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I've recently joined a more active raid guild, after being a Tank for a casual guild, I want to see more content & have joined a friends guild that's doing Heroic BRF & Mythic HM.  I've rapidly geared up through their farm bosses, but get sat on the progression nights until my ilvl & dps goes up, so i'm not dragging the raid down.

 

I'm trying to get experience in my raiding gears, getting rotations etc down, but always seem to sit at below 15% ranking when I upload logs to warcraftlogs - im just plain crap! 

 

Combat vs Normal Butcher - In this link, you can see that i'm 671 with 21.8k DPS in Arcane.  Where as Xanielian is 659 with 27.3k dps.  I'm obviously doing something wrong.

 

Armory Link   - this is my armory link.

 

Im not sure if i'm just not cut out for Arcane, or if i need to change my ui up a bit or something else entirely.  I try and use my trinkets on cool down, im watching my Arcane Charges, and resetting them when I think I should be.

 

Help me Icy-Veins, you are my only hope! 

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Your stats and glyphs look fine - we are 1 pt of ilvl in difference and our stats are comparable. I would change up some of your talents though. 

 

First, switch out arcane orb for prismatic crystal. Cut and paste from my response to another poster:

 

To use it, drop it as close to your target as you can and once you cast it it your target automatically switches to the crystal, so it's seamless. The only catch is that once it drops you have to manually switch back to the boss. It helps to have tank target frames or boss frames on your screen and just have your mouse hovering over it to quick click when the time comes. You'll want to switch targets when there is still a bit of power left, otherwise it drops before you finish your last cast and then you've wasted cast time. At first you may have some down time between crystal and tank, but with practice you'll learn to watch the crystal's power bar and know when it gets to a certain point to switch to avoid losing a cast. 

 

In most cases it's better to use incanter's flow over rune of power because most of the fights are high mobility and have you running out of range of your runes, which significantly reduces your damage. Some instances where you can get away with rune of power are Butcher and Kromog in brf - both of those fights have you moving in a linear fashion, so you just line up two runes and don't have to worry. Before they fade use presence of mind to recast one, and then as the second is fading hopefully your presence is off cooldown and you can instantly recast the second. There's probably an addon that can track the timing, but I just guess. I've been arcane since day one though so you might want to look into it until you get it down. It's important to use presence of mind for the runes because they are slow to cast and you aren't doing damage during that time. My advice is never, ever use runes on a fight you don't know yet. Once you get the fight down you'll be better able to judge if your movements will be small enough to fit into the confined space of the runes.

 

Your tier 2, 3 and 4 talents are mostly a matter of preference. 

 

Tier 2 - I prefer Ice Barrier to protect myself during periods of higher damage. I've never tried Flameglow, but I prefer to be in control of when I shield myself and barrier also prevents interruption of your casts. I have never been good with altered time, personally I find it easier just to blink.

 

Tier 3 - I have no real preference. I have Frost Jaw specced but I never use it. These talents don't have much utility in raids.

 

Tier 4 - I have cold snap specced because I have the Regenerative Ice glyph, and Cold Snap resets the cooldown on Ice Block and gives you a small heal. The only caveat with that is that when you're blocked you aren't casting, which affects your dps. I don't use it unless the damage is becoming overwhelming or I'm about to die and heals are not forthcoming. If everyone is taking a lot of damage, blocking and healing yourself frees up the healers to deal with other people. I have used cauterize in the past and found it useful, but I prefer cold snap. Cauterize is more of a last-ditch save after you're already significantly damaged - I find it better to avoid getting to that state in the first place, but preference can come down to whether you prefer actively managing your health or want it to be hands off.

 

Ice floes and supernova are solid choices. Make sure you use ice floes for every evocate. Arcane damage is dependant on our mana - more mana means more damage - so you want to make sure your evocate wont be interrupted if you suddenly have to move. Floes is also good on butcher after the knock back - as soon as you land, cast floes then start your arcane blast. You can be casting while you run back to your position.

 

As for rotation, here is what I do:

 

During the pull countdown:

1)   *IF* I am using runes I lay them out. You need a 10 second countdown to do this, so if they're only giving you 5, ask them to up it. If they won't, you'll have to anticipate. Cast one instantly using presence of mind then cast the second. You need to be done this by the 2 second mark becase...

2)   In the space between 2 and 1, drink an intellect potion (pre-pot, so you can drink a second one later).

3)   Immediately after the potion, use any trinkets

4)   Cast Arcane Power

5)   Cast Time Warp *IF* you have been assigned to do this.

 

Steps 2-5 need to happen as quickly as possible in the time between 2 seconds and the pull, so have the spells including the trinket and potion lined up in order on a toolbar somewhere. Be careful about Time Warp, if you are likely to click it by accident when you aren't supposed to but a space between it and arcane power so it's close enough to be quick but far enough you wont screw up.

 

Opening rotation:

1) 4x Arcane Blast

2) Drop a crystal

3) 2x Supernova, then missiles if they've procced, then back to arcane blast.

4) Once the crystal drops, switch to the boss and continue casting Blasts until your missles proc, and cast Supernova every time it has a charge.

5) Keep burning until Time Warp/Hero ends if it was used at the opening. If not, burn until your mana is at 50% OR your arcane power ends (whichever happens last) and then evocate. 

 

During your opening it's all about doing as much damage as you can regardless of whether hero was used or not. The ONLY exception to this is if Hero is going to be used shortly after the pull - as in less than 3 minutes, not enough time for your critical cooldowns to reset. In that situation you still drink your pre-pot, but save everything else for hero (and the second pot should be ready by then). There is only one fight I've encountered where this happened - Ko'ragh - because we saved hero for when his shield first dropped, which was within the first minute or two. Normally if Hero is not cast at the outset it is much later in the fight. Make sure you know when this is happening. You normally want to use your CDs as often as possible, but as you get closer to the time of a late Hero, you'll want to make sure everything is ready to go so you can burn the crap out of the boss. This includes your prismatic crystal.

 

After the initial burn, you need to be more careful with your mana. Arcane damage is based on how much mana you have. As your mana drops, so does your damage.

 

1) Cast 4 Arcane Blast

 

What happens after this depends on the state of your mana and how long you have to wait for your next evocate.

 

You need to protect your mana. Every arcane charge you have increases the mana cost of your Arcane Blast by 100%. You'll notice your mana climb while you are streaming missles. But if your missiles aren't proccing, this becomes a problem. You need to dump your arcane charge or you'll be out of mana long before you can evocate again and your damage will suffer. To do this, cast Arcane Barrage after every 4th Blast to wipe your charges and start over.

 

Even with the little climb during your missles, your mana will start creeping down. How you use your missles will depend on where your mana is. I generally like to let my missles stack to 3 and cast them all at once, however, if they are stubbornly not proccing, I use them as they come to slow the bleed a little. I try to keep my mana above 80% as long as possible. Sometimes it doesn't work out - the key is to never let it drop below 50%. Ever (unless its a burn phase). Use your Barrage as needed to slow the decline. As your evocate approaches reset, go ahead and waste some mana by continuously casting Arcane Blast. Once you drop below 50%, evocate.

 

ALWAYS cast icy floes before you evocate. You cannot allow yourself to be interrupted while recharging your mana if you want to keep your damage up.

 

When Hero pops (if not at the beginning), repeat what you did in your opener. 

 

Some other points:

 

Although I've talked about a rotation, there isn't technically a rotation for arcane. You are basically reacting to your situation so it does take a lot of practice to learn what you need to do when to keep your dps consistent. Make use of the dummies in your garrison to practice your mana management and burn phases.

 

Arcane damage is also very spiky. You'll notice that you are higher in the charts during your burn but that you drop when conserving, and then climb again on the next burn. As long as you are consistently high in the opening and hero burns, you are doing well. With practice the spikes should flatten a little, but I don't think they ever really go away.

 

Avoid using your missiles if you have less than 4 stacks of charge as they'll do less damage. If you need to, you can cast a 3-stack at 3 charge because the missiles also give charge, so you only lose damage on that one.

 

Use Arcane Power whenever you can to boost damage and lower mana expense, but remember to save it as you close in on a late heroism. Try to use your other cooldowns at the same time, including your crystal.

 

Use supernova whenever there is one stack. Never let it get to 2 unless you are saving it for a mechanic (ex. to AoE arcane aberrations in Imp and Ko'ragh). Once it's at 2 it stops charging, so if you didn't use it you're now wasting an instant burst of damage. It doesn't matter where you are in your rotation, you can cast it at any time. What I like to do is when I have a 3-stack of missles I cast one missle, supernova, then cast the rest. The reason for this is that I've noticed that supernova often procs the missiles, so you can get 4 in row out of it.

 

Sometimes your use of Arcane Barrage will be higher than others. Don't get too hung up on it. It is just a utility to save mana. Not using it won't necessarily reduce your damage, using it won't necessarily increase it.

 

I think I've covered pretty much everything. Sorry if it's a bit overwhelming! Good luck!

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People say "cast missles at 3 stacks" should I only cast it once, ie: down to 2, then wait for it to proc again? or should I be using them all up?

 

I think a lot of it is just not watching my mana and getting down too low before wiping it with barrage
 

Thanks for the reply, i'm going to be jumping on PuGs whenever I can, just to get the experience.

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. I generally like to let my missles stack to 3 and cast them all at once, however, if they are stubbornly not proccing, I use them as they come to slow the bleed a little. I try to keep my mana above 80% as long as possible. Sometimes it doesn't work out - the key is to never let it drop below 50%. Ever (unless its a burn phase). Use your Barrage as needed to slow the decline. As your evocate approaches reset, go ahead and waste some mana by continuously casting Arcane Blast. Once you drop below 50%, evocate.

 

 

This is however not how you should do it, because you are losing the mana regeneration that arcane missiles provide you, and thus, lose some time at 4 arcane charges. 

 

The correct way to do it is to :

 

-Check arcane blast when you have more than 93% mana

-Cast arcane missile/supernove if you are below 93% mana and thus, providing mana regeneration.

-If you are below 93% mana and are out of supenova/arcane missile, arcane barrage.

 

Why 93%? You can have long answers about that but just stick to this figure.

 

If you wait for your arcane missile to be capped at 3 and cast them all at once, you will be capped at 100% mana when you will cast your second/third arcane missile and lose one or two potential arcane blast with 4 arcane charges.

 

Ideally, your mana should never be under 85%, unless it is a burn phase, and never under 50% at all.

 

 

It's important to use presence of mind for the runes because they are slow to cast and you aren't doing damage during that time

 

Well, i prefer to use presence of mind during an arcane power/cristal phase so that i have an instant arcane blast on my cristal. As long as you don't spend 30seconds without rune of power, it is quite OK to cast them.

 

 

 

People say "cast missles at 3 stacks" should I only cast it once, ie: down to 2, then wait for it to proc again? or should I be using them all up?

 

You just use arcane missile once so that you don't potentially lose a proc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I looked at your butcher log, your biggest issue is indeed your mana management. Oddly, you don't have any burn phase at the beginning of the fight (your first evocation use is after one minute?), And you spend long times at 66% of your maximum mana, which should not happen. (read the icy vein guide for the correct spells priorities).

 

You somehow forgot to recast the rune of power. ANd you should use ice floes when you are bumped by the butcher to not loose any DPS (You can cast while bumped).

 

 

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Hmm okay I'll try that with the missiles. I wasn't sure what it was that was boosting my mana when I was casting them, I only noticed it climbing, and hadn't thought about how it would impact arcane blast.Thanks for the tip!

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Arcane missiles cost zero mana, so your mana  will climb due do your mana regeneration.

Try it on a dummy you will see :)
Plus you can even get more arcane missiles charges from the extra arcane blast you gain.

Sure it is a bit harder to manage that casting all your arcane missiles in a row (i used also to do that), but you will have a substancial DPS boost.

 

However, during brn phase, priority is always the same : arcane missile when up (regardless of your mana, you just want to cast them with the highest mana possible, but you also want to burn your mana) , then arcane blast

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I did normal BRF with the guild a couple of nights ago, as we're dropping down to 3 nights a week on progression.  I started off a bit better, but went down hill on the movement fights.

 

I need to concentrate on my burn phases.  As I used to tank, I am used to using a bunch of keys for different skills.  As a mage, I find myself pressing AM or Barrage at the wrong times & even when i'm burning, i still use AM or Barrage, which of course stuffs up the whole burn.  

 

Does anyone have suggestions on Addons / UI's for possibly making it easier to track various skills?

I use weakaura, mage nuggets & nUI mainly.  - This is a shot without my weakaura up (i'll replace this when I get home & can post a more recent one) 

11002668_10153082755823180_9178797980294

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I meant to post this - BRF Normal - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wrVF6fGQNH2TvZDz

 

Also - I got 2piece from this run legs which replaced my 640 garrison legs, & the helm (i think) but already have a 680 piece helm.  Is the 2 piece worth the bonus, if I loose 15 ilvl (i can't check stats as im at work atm) 

Edited by RoseyNZ

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In the matter of keybinds, I have a general scheme that I apply to all of my characters.

Key 3 is filler (Frostbolt, Arcane Blast, Fireball), key 2 is for procs that will happen less frequently (Brain Freeze, AM, Pyroblast

Key 4 is for procs that happen frequently (like Ice lance, AM, Scorch for fire.. while it's not a proc, I've just gut used to it this way.)
key 1 for dots, and novas etc etc. The key is consistency. You can apply the scheme to tanking too. Put fillers on button something, then your fillers will always be on that button.. You have a dot? Put it on key 1 or 5 or whatever.. Consistently, and comfortably :)

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This I do,  1 = Orb, or crystal, 2 = Supernova, 

3= Filler, with 4 on Proc & 5 as reset (for arcane)

 

When I tank, I have similar, 3=goto, 4= proc & 5 = reset/cooldown macro.

 

The problem I have, is that with tank, if my proc / reset is on CD, then nothing happens, however as Arcane, if I accidently hit proc/reset during a rotation, it'll go off (unless AM is dead) - I've reset with barrage on 2 or 3 AC's before, or used AM on 1 proc instead of 3. 

I used to hate my flatmate who would constantly smash his nuke key as a mage, but he had a point - "at least it will go off at the earliest time" - I have to get into this mindset for burn phase.  just mash the keyboard & watch mana levels.

 

Just takes time.  Will set up in front of a dummy tonight preraid and practice watching mana, seeing where my mana/regen/procs sit etc.  Might move some CD buttons down (currently have it set so that I can click all my cool downs in a row) 

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Your numbers are very low :/

 

I had a look at your maiden fights. How comes that you have your arcane missile buff at three stacks during 45 second?
During you burn phase (and you should begin by your burn phase), you should cast arcane missile on priority, and then cast arcane blast.

 

I also looked at the twins fight and once again, you don't start casting arcane missile before 00.45s. This is wrong. You should cast them whenever you have 3 charges (highest priority in your cycle).

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I have a question if you don't mind tapif.

 

I'm a bit confused on the burn phase priority.

 

I read the icy veins guide section discussing the burn phase as "same as the conserve phase with no regard to mana when casting arcane blast." The conserve phase tells me to:

 

- cast arcane missiles if you have 3 charges

- cast arcane blast if you have 93% or more mana when you start your cast

- cast arcane missiles if you have 1 charge and 4 stacks of arcane charge

 

What this says to me is that during the burn phase I should do the following:

 

- cast arcane missiles if you have 3 charges

- cast arcane blast

 

Is this correct? People are talking about casting arcane missiles during the burn phase even if you have 1 stack. If I get procs at 60% mana should I be using arcane missiles at 60% and not spamming blast in order to evocate? Also, should I be concerned with arcane power falling off? It is usually only up for two thirds of the time that I spend burning before I evocate.

 

Thank you for any tips. :)

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The way it is written on the official guide is confusing. If we have a look at Berlinia's guide, it is much more clear smile.png


 

Burn
Just like with the Conserve Phase, the Burn phase does not follow a strict rotation but rather a priority list. This phase is heavily tied to the cooldown of your Evocation and can only be started when you are at 4 Arcane Charges.
1. Cast Arcane Power.
2. Cast Arcane Missiles.
3. Cast Arcane Blast if you have more than 50% mana.
4. Cast Evocation if you have less than 50% mana and 4 stacks of Arcane Charge.
This is the priority list tied to the Burn Phase. What this list essentially tells you is that you should cast Arcane Missiles as they proc, and then burn your mana until you have less than 50% mana. Due to the high mana costs of Arcane Blast at 4 stacks of Arcane Charges, you will need to know the mana costs of your spells of your spells so you know when to execute the third step of the priority list. These mana costs are as follows.

 


During conserve phase, we cast arcane blast over arcane missile when we have more than 93% mana to benefit from the mana regeneration than arcane missile provides us, and that allows us to spend more time with 4 arcane charges. 

This reason is not valid when we want to burn our mana, so we cast arcane missile on priority because it does more damage than arcane blast.

Edited by tapif

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The way it is written on the official guide is confusing. If we have a look at Berlinia's guide, it is much more clear smile.png

 

During conserve phase, we cast arcane blast over arcane missile when we have more than 93% mana to benefit from the mana regeneration than arcane missile provides us, and that allows us to spend more time with 4 arcane charges. 

This reason is not valid when we want to burn our mana, so we cast arcane missile on priority because it does more damage than arcane blast.

 

we cast arcane missile on priority because it does more damage than arcane blast.

 

This makes a lot more sense.

 

Thank you :)

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Thanks, Missiles always confused me.  Which is why I was going with Blast down to 50% mana.  

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Ok, So I find myself in some fights during my burn phase, I'm casting Missles when they proc, blast down to 50%, but there are time's that i'm getting a bunch of missile procs, and it seems weird that I'm naturally regenerating mana quicker than I can use it.

 

I read in someone's guide (can't remember where) - that you nuke down to 50%, if you're above 70% & get a missile proc, then cast missiles, if you're under 70%, then just burn down to 50% & evocate.

 

Is this right? or is it Always Missile Unless @ 50%, in which case Evocate?

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Arcane mages first world problem :)

I don't think there is a clear answer to this one to be honest. Maybe on the altered time forums?

 

If your burn phase is too long, your evocation CD will be delayed as well and thus, at the enxt burn phase, you could have some troubles if you decide to burn when PC/AP is up. This is why some people like to stop casting arcane missile below 70%.

 

What you can do is cast arcane missile if you have two procs of them (and always cast it when you have 3 procs in any case), but cast arcane blast if you only have one proc, so you shorten your burn phase.

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During burn ignore AM unless you have 3 procs, at around 50% use all missiles, evocate then cancel evocation at 100% mana. More time in burn phase means more dps, so longer burn phases are not a DPS loss.

Out of burn, you shall use all your AM at 4 stacks of Arcane Charges before resetting and use AB to avoide capping mana.

Edited by Drazail

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During burn ignore AM unless you have 3 procs, at around 50% use all missiles, evocate then cancel evocation at 100% mana. More time in burn phase means more dps, so longer burn phases are not a DPS loss.

Out of burn, you shall use all your AM at 4 stacks of Arcane Charges before resetting and use AB to avoide capping mana.

 

Nononononono, don't do this.

 

You use your arcane missiles whenever you're below 93% mana and above 65% mana, even during burn phase. (as long as you have 4 stacks of arcane charges)

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Nononononono, don't do this.

 

You use your arcane missiles whenever you're below 93% mana and above 65% mana, even during burn phase. (as long as you have 4 stacks of arcane charges)

hmm, you either are suggesting to end burn phase at 65% mana or risk munching the AM procs during burn phase. may I know which one is your suggestion, and why?

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hmm, you either are suggesting to end burn phase at 65% mana or risk munching the AM procs during burn phase. may I know which one is your suggestion, and why?

 

You stop using AM at 65%, at which point it's only 3 arcane blasts until 50% mana, at which point you evocate. You don't risk munching anything, at least not before ending your burn phase. You may mucnh one missile proc while building to 4 stacks again, but that chance is very low and means you were lucky anyway. 

 

My burn phase explanation in more detail is here: http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1455#post-anchor-rotation

Edited by Dutchmagoz

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OK, so AM should be cast at 4 Arcane Charges, the only real reason to be capped at 3 AMs and NOT have 4 AC's, is bad casting choices, right?  This ties in with resetting the Charges at the right time as well.

If I'm at 3AM's and below 4 AC's due to a bad reset, I should cast AM once to drop it to 2, and then Blast to 4AC's, casting AM once at 3 proc's, then when im at 4AC's, AM can be cast when it procs?

 

 

 

I've re-vamped my UI, along with a WeakAura that shows my Mana % right in the middle of my screen.

I'm quite excited to raid tonight.  Will be spending a good 1/2 hour in front of a target dummy before hand.

Edited by RoseyNZ

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Dutchmagoz - Just read your guide, WOW!  
So good! Thanks

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OK, so AM should be cast at 4 Arcane Charges, the only real reason to be capped at 3 AMs and NOT have 4 AC's, is bad casting choices, right?  This ties in with resetting the Charges at the right time as well.

If I'm at 3AM's and below 4 AC's due to a bad reset, I should cast AM once to drop it to 2, and then Blast to 4AC's, casting AM once at 3 proc's, then when im at 4AC's, AM can be cast when it procs?

 

 

 

I've re-vamped my UI, along with a WeakAura that shows my Mana % right in the middle of my screen.

I'm quite excited to raid tonight.  Will be spending a good 1/2 hour in front of a target dummy before hand.

 

Don't use those AM's until you have at least 3 charges of arcane charges, even if that means potentially munching a missile proc. Never ever use AM below 3 charges of arcane charges.

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