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Zagam going Destruction46 replies to this topic
Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:40 PM
Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:21 PM
Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:50 PM
Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:06 PM
Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:42 PM
Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:47 PM
Zagam, thanks for the work you put into being a lock, It has really helped me. I just switched from Destro to Aff based on suggestions here. I was wondering where it was you saw Ghostcrawler making these comments, because instead of just leeching off all of your excellent work I would like to add my own efforts to the improvement of warlocks. Cheers
Ghost does a lot of stuff on Twitter now. I haven't seen anything directly saying that they'll nerf Affliction beyond the Grimore: Sacrifice nerf, he has mentioned that Destro's lower DPS shouldn't be held up by a talent everyone is taking. Here's the comments:
Point in fact, Destro less than a 1% spread for 3 Grim, yet nerfed Sac for them. Aff Sac is ~6.5% ahead, only nerfed by 1.7%.
Last I looked, 90% of Affliction and Destro had Sac in PvE and 90% of Destro had Sac in PvP. That doesn't feel like a choice.
Even with Sac,Destro was bottom of lock DPS. So regardless of intent, it's a nerf to our worst spec.
Destro is good on some fights. Regardless, having a mandatory talent prop up a low dps spec isn't good design.
Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:59 PM
Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:16 PM
The thing that burns me is the reforging priorities are so different that you have to optimize your gear for one or the other, realistically.
I'm really confused on the actual set up for Destruction. Simcraft has Mastery at 1.75, Crit at 1.70, and Haste at 1.65 yet in their 496 build, they have 6900 haste rating, 2900 crit rating, and 2400 mastery rating after hit capping. In their 509 profile, they have 2200 haste rating, 5500 crit rating, 5900 mastery rating, and hit capping. That makes no sense to me if the stat weights are so close. I personally prefer casting faster, so I'll likely keep my Aff build of 6637 haste and pure mastery after that for Destruction. If the stat weights are truly correct, then the overall DPS difference MAYBE will reach 1k.
The other thing I have to mess around with is I keep seeing Essence of Terror being used over Light of the Cosmos. My initial reaction is 'damn' but then I think, well if the stat weights for Destruction are so low with Intellect being so high, maybe the pure Intellect is better than the Intellect proc that is used for Affliction's stat extension. I'll play around with it all weekend and the next couple of weeks raiding. Affliction definitely has a ton of micro management, so at least the next couple of weeks of spamming Incinerate will be a step down in the amount of care I need to give. =)
Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:03 PM
If affli be nerfed to oblivion at 5.2 i go Demonology like Cata.
Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:21 PM
Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:12 AM
Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:58 PM
Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:34 PM
Appreciate the update Ghostcrawler, but still waiting on news of a buff for Destro single target damage.
As I said above, it makes more sense for us to implement mechanics changes before we tune all the numbers. Otherwise, you throw out all the tuning work every time you make another mechanics change. I will post when we've finished our 5.2 tuning pass so you guys have a chance to offer feedback.
We think Destro may be a little behind, but it's not much. Affliction PvE damage is too high, which causes many warlocks to go Affliction on every fight rather than considering options. That creates a big sampling bias effect on sites like World of Logs and Raidbots. The lower performing DPS specs appear even lower than they actually are because the only players generating those logs are uninformed (which also tends to mean undergeared) or just messing around. To get a more accurate test, you need to see a player try every spec under similar circumstances (gear, skill, etc.), and those data are much more rare.
Edited by Kaboozey, 25 January 2013 - 09:34 PM.
Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:04 PM
Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:19 PM
Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:32 PM
Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:59 AM
I was getting off-topic in the Aff tips thread
I understand the reasons for why you're taking the challenge of destro on. My concern is that it appears to be more than a slight DPS loss. I don't see how Destro catches up enough to be a main spec in theory. A novelty offspec at best at least for normal content as far as I can tell. Nothing in the patch notes indicates more than a few percentage points nerf for Aff with Destro getting a similar cut. I only check out logs/rankings for normals since that is the information that's pertinent to me having just started with progression so I'm fairly uninformed for heroic rankings and logs and maybe the gap is much closer there.
Maybe if you get a chance during your experiments you could run normal content in tuned down gear (Exclude ToES gear or forgo a set bonus? Just spitballing) to give people at my stage of progression a feel for the spec and your thoughts on it's viability that would be awesome! It seems like with a lower crit-rating at lower ilvl gear players could be more ember-starved than the better geared players whereas in Affliction the gear doesn't affect basic mechanics and the rotation since nightfall is a % chance to proc as a baseline where-as improved ember generation is aided by crits.
It might seem irrelevant and I understand if you want to keep your experiments tuned to heroic content and gear level, but the majority of people that will be taking your advice are likely to be people around my level .
Good luck and I look forward to hopefully seeing you advise us to use Destro for fights over Affliction!