PvP Guides on Icy Veins - What do you want us to cover? (25 replies to this topic)

While we do intend to do PvP guides during Mists of Pandaria, we are going to first focus on what we have been specializing up to this point: class guides and encounter guides. So we hope to start publishing PvP content between the release of Mists of Pandaria and the first patch of the expansion.

In this thread, we are going to analyze the demand and I will update the following list with what we will cover, taking into account replies you will make:

• PvP versions of our PvE guides
  
• Battleground guides: overview, objectives, common strategies
  
• Arenas: overview, map details (with tips and tricks for positioning/running around), common strategies
  
• PvP Achievements
  
• Advice on interactions between classes

We want the guides to be crucially intensionalized about the particular class, the powers which should be used and the particular class spells to be used with prior to opposite class ! Thats it , will adjacently help a lot.

Damien, on 12 June 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

  
U have marked the proper points. Loved your praise for others !

I would love to see your pvp guides include some strats for different team variations possibly, and the basic stuff you have for pve guides such as stats, gear theory.. i'm sure they will be great. keep up the good work.

To build on Logicals post I would love a mini guide that lists each classes CC's and special "pvp" cool downs.  Too many times do I have guildies and arena partners who only know about their own class, they rarely know what other classes can do in battlegrounds and arena.

I understand that if you play long enough and you are good enough then you pick this all up as you play, but for learners and beginners I think it would be a great thing to quickly see what a mages strengths and weaknesses are because you always struggle against them, or how to combat a specific combo tht you seem to have trouble against.

PvP always seems to bring out the elitist in players, and if you ever try and get information from the official forums you just get shot down straight away.  A place to ask basic questions and have basic information for those that have no clue what to do but think they would find it fun would be great.  

Trying to explain Alterac Valley match to anyone who hasn't done it before isn't always that easy, especially if they are brand new to pvp.

Agreed with Logical and PeeLyon.  When I first started out in PvP I was so confused about everything and den though I have been PvP'ing for a while now there are times were I'd like to have an easy to read and understand guide of what my arena partner can do in terms of cool downs etc.  wold also like to see what class combos are best and maybe how you can each spec for arena to compliment eachother.

Also, may be silly but I would like to maybe see a guide on how you can get certain PvP achievements.  I know many are by chance but some do require an element of strategy to obtain them.  Would be very nice to see this.

I've been thinking about the proper way to approach PvP guides (specifically, class guides meant for arena play) for a while.

Ideally, we could have a break-down of:

• Talents and glyphs
  
• Stats, gems and enchants
  
• Abilities, cooldowns, "rotation"
  
• Teamplay, cooperation
  
• Countering the other team

This sounds good in theory (even though I don't have a PvP "career" to speak of, I have quite vast expertise with all those things), but the problem comes from the actual implementation.

For talents and glyphs, with Mists of Pandaria's talent system, it will probably be much harder to suggest a build. Most talents have both PvP and PvE implications, and it seems to me that often it's going to come down to a personal choice of the player. Same for glyphs, which have very little impact on gameplay now.

For stats, gems etc. this should be easy and not a problem.

The true problems come when discussing abilities, rotation, and countering your enemy. Anyone who has played arena at all seriously (even random battlegrounds, depending on how seriously you treat them) will know that you need to have every single ability in your spellbook on your action bars, keybound and ready to use in an instant. No longer can it be boiled down to 5-7 spells like in PvE (there are a few exceptions to this like Healing Rain, Holy Radiance and so on). Moreover, each of these spells has interactions that are very complex, when used against other players, and their effects are important to understand.

Then you have the issue that there is no such thing as a "rotation". Sure, you can theoretically make one, but in practice it is impossible to maintain it. Your DoTs will constantly be dispelled, your spells will be interrupted, you will be CC'd in one way or another for extended periods of time in the middle of your rotation, you will need to cast self-healing spells or hide behind pillars and so on.

Finally, I would absolutely love to be able to create some kind of interweaved list of abilities that counter one another, and the ways in which you can counter players like that. It's not enough to say that Disarm will remove the player's weapon, but it's important to say that you should save Disarm for when the Retribution Paladin uses Avenging Wrath etc. And then, this must be applied to the other 10 classes, for pretty much every spell. And then, you must understand when your own abilities can and will be countered by the other classes' abilities. And, going even further, you can't explain this in vacuum - your teammate's cooldowns, abilities etc. can make a world of difference to how you use your spells. Oh! And then, your opponent has a teammate as well, which you need to take into account. And if it's 3v3...

So, to sum up, I still haven't been able to figure out the ideal way to handle this. Not that we would have had time to do it until now, but once Mists of Pandaria things settle in a bit more, maybe then.

Vlad, on 15 June 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

I think that implementing something into future pvp guides discussing how different abilities counter one another would be a great idea. I've actually never seen a site that had that kind of information so you would definitely get alot of traffic with that alone. I'm sure with some more research the guides will be great, especially seeing all the things you want to implement into them.

Vlad, i think that giving a few examples of what moves should be used and when would be great. I understand that you can't list every single possible combination, but likely examples, or breakdowns of combating against certain skills would be really nice.

A lot of it you do pick up just through playing, but like I said, so many don't know other classes and a quick 5-10 list of a classes key spells etc would go a long way for people to learn how to fight against them and what to look for.

I agree that that sort of basic information is hard to find on the Internet. So many guides are over complicated and a simple guide to give played a head start really would help.  It would hopefully give people who "hate" pvp a bit of confidence to try it all out.

An explaination into this new PvP power etc would also be brilliant!

Edited by Peelyon, 16 June 2012 - 06:38 PM.

PvP Guides on Icy Veins - What do you want us to cover?

Basically for me its as much detail as you put into the leveling guides, for instance where each point should go as and when you get it, what moves you should concentrate on using for each individual spec.

Edited by Asakura, 23 June 2012 - 01:21 PM.

NOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo dont tell people the secrets behind battling a rogue!!! Were the most hated class in history and it should stay that way!

on the other hand, feel FREE to write a comprehensive PvP guide that includes all the tips, hints, strategies, etc that we're all discussing that include all the OTHER classes........

*vanish*

Edited by Nyxxiana, 23 June 2012 - 02:13 PM.

Hehe... one of my friends plays a rogue and made me duel him for HOURS so that I would be able to function properly against them in arenas.  It wasn't a fun experience...

Alierya, on 23 June 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Funny you should say that, every time one of my friends starts getting into Arena, they use me as a training dummy Im no PvP-er by ANY means, but even a Rogue in full PvE gear set up in combat spec is still enough to make even the most stoic warrior shudder with fear

Last night, my Guild leader Vixxn (a pally) and i were getting on the boat to Northrend, and there were already three War Council Hordies on it.... as SOON as i boarded, they flew off XD Vixxn boarded right behind me laughing the whole way..... it felt good. REAL good..... i LOVE the sense of fear that being a Rogue strikes in people who are flagged PvP Maybe it IS time i start getting into PvP more..... its funny, ive NEVER gotten into it , other than the obligitory defending of stormwind and battlegrounds before cata... i think im starting to feel the pull

Edited by Nyxxiana, 23 June 2012 - 04:34 PM.

Thank you for all the incredible work that you've done for everyone!
I went from a total noob (Started Feb 2012) and with the amazing help from icy-veins.com and some astounding people in WoW, I'm a level 85 Arcane Mage with ilvl 393 and getting some great experience in raids and dungeons.
I hope that the PvP area will be just as comprehensive and helpful, and I wish you all the best!
Cheers!

Valkder, on 24 June 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

Thank you for this message! You started at the right time, I have a feeling that Mists of Pandaria will be an incredible and refreshing expansion.

You can count on us for making PvP guides in the same vein as our PvE guides.

I think one of the reasons I've found PvP to be so difficult is that there are no satisfactory guides for beginners. And there are certainly no guides for the most common experience of world PvP -- which will be all the more prevalent in MoP.

While there is plenty of advice regarding how to fight this class or this spec, and lots of discussions about arena teams, there is little advice available about what to do when you're getting ganked while questing. For me, the primary concern is how to survive while questing and leveling my toons. This has been less of a problem in Cata, but MoP promises to bring world PvP back once more.

So, what do I do when I find myself rooted, or stunned, or otherwise ambushed? What ought to be my first response when I have no idea who or what it is that has attacked me? Due to its fundamental principle of blind surprise, world PvP, in some ways, seems to be inherently different from the BGs or arenas.

Fordahorde, on 19 September 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

I have heard others say this but can find no information on MoP bringing back world pvp.  What are you referring to exactly?  Is this something applicable only for pvp realms that I simply don't know about?  Just curious.

I think they mentioned on PvP servers they would nerf city guards in the hope it would encourage players to attack them.  

Dont think they have anything else "planned" though.

I also think another reason is the need to go out into the world to camp rare pets for pet battles. This only applies to PvP servers but it should make it interesting.

Also, the world bosses which have meaningful loot might spawn some nice battles on balanced servers.

And I believe the developers said that they had more ideas/plans to further spur on world PvP.

I'm excited.

Thanks for the answers guys!  I was a little worried about my pve server for a minute there .  I'm on Skywall and Alliance outnumbers Horde by a bunch and all the great pvp'ers are Alliance.