jmaster299

Changes to Azor's BM stat weights.

7 posts in this topic

Azor, love your guides and love that you take the time to make pawn strings, but I am curious about your recent changes to BM stat weights and talent choices for Legion. I know why you said you changed things, due to basing them on boss fights in Legion and not the super short boss fights in the nerfed HFC. But they still seem drastic imo and was wondering if they could be explained further. Such as providing things like the fight lengths you are using in SimC when you run numbers.

Especially as it relates to the choice of Big Game Hunter. Picking a talent that only boosts our chance to do extra damage in the first 20% of a fight does not make a lot of sense compared to things like Way of the Cobra. Which boosts our Cobra Shot damage 16%, or more, during 100% of the fight entire fight. I'm thinking/guessing that the big buff to Crit in the stat weights is directly related to Big Game Hunter being taken as a talent.

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Posted (edited)

I've participated in all of the heroic testing on legion, BGH is not desirable at all - At best it might pull ahead in 1 or 2 encounters.

My own sims for max dps (with ~845 ilvl gear) had 1001000 for talents and Haste as an undisputed #1 then Mastery >> Crit >= Vers. I Did not include Surge of the Stormgod(multishot), and Titan's Thunder in my testing.

 

Whatever 'modifications' he used to produce his latest data are clearly broken.

Edited by NocsT

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On 8/10/2016 at 4:24 PM, NocsT said:

I've participated in all of the heroic testing on legion, BGH is not desirable at all - At best it might pull ahead in 1 or 2 encounters.

My own sims for max dps (with ~845 ilvl gear) had 1001000 for talents and Haste as an undisputed #1 then Mastery >> Crit >= Vers. I Did not include Surge of the Stormgod(multishot), and Titan's Thunder in my testing.

 

Whatever 'modifications' he used to produce his latest data are clearly broken.

It's a prepatch guide. If anything is broken here, it is your reading comprehension skills.

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On 8/9/2016 at 7:05 AM, jmaster299 said:

Azor, love your guides and love that you take the time to make pawn strings, but I am curious about your recent changes to BM stat weights and talent choices for Legion. I know why you said you changed things, due to basing them on boss fights in Legion and not the super short boss fights in the nerfed HFC. But they still seem drastic imo and was wondering if they could be explained further. Such as providing things like the fight lengths you are using in SimC when you run numbers.

Especially as it relates to the choice of Big Game Hunter. Picking a talent that only boosts our chance to do extra damage in the first 20% of a fight does not make a lot of sense compared to things like Way of the Cobra. Which boosts our Cobra Shot damage 16%, or more, during 100% of the fight entire fight. I'm thinking/guessing that the big buff to Crit in the stat weights is directly related to Big Game Hunter being taken as a talent.

They are based on the super short fights of HFC, actually. Legion is still over 2 weeks from being out, therefore the guide is not tailored to Legion content. As you can tell, there is no artifact content in the guide either.

I base my simcraft fight length on the 50th percentile killspeed average in Hellfire Citadel right now (in short, the average killtime), excluding Hellfire Assault. This works out to be around the 2 minute mark.

So I use a 2 minute encounter with 15% variation/deviation. This means that roughly half the sims' runs will only have 1 ring usage, and the rest will have 2.

The stat weight change is unrelated to Big Game Hunter. Crit didn't get that much of a buff, remember that stat weights are relative to each other, but are otherwise kind of arbitrary.

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On 8/11/2016 at 8:17 AM, Azortharion said:

They are based on the super short fights of HFC, actually. Legion is still over 2 weeks from being out, therefore the guide is not tailored to Legion content. As you can tell, there is no artifact content in the guide either.

I base my simcraft fight length on the 50th percentile killspeed average in Hellfire Citadel right now (in short, the average killtime), excluding Hellfire Assault. This works out to be around the 2 minute mark.

So I use a 2 minute encounter with 15% variation/deviation. This means that roughly half the sims' runs will only have 1 ring usage, and the rest will have 2.

The stat weight change is unrelated to Big Game Hunter. Crit didn't get that much of a buff, remember that stat weights are relative to each other, but are otherwise kind of arbitrary.

"They are based on the super short fights of HFC, actually. Legion is still over 2 weeks from being out, therefore the guide is not tailored to Legion content. As you can tell, there is no artifact content in the guide either."

"The stat weight change is unrelated to Big Game Hunter. Crit didn't get that much of a buff, remember that stat weights are relative to each other, but are otherwise kind of arbitrary."


Quoted your first and last responses together there as they go to the heart of my original question. Per your change log, the stat priority and talent choices on fights in Legion, not HFC. As per your two most recent change log notes:

"06 Aug. 2016: Updated stat priorities to take AoE into account, as well as using different talents as a base. This punishes Haste a lot."
"29 Jul. 2016: Updated stat priority to reflect kill times in Legion more accurately."


The stat priority had previously been Agi>Weap DPS>Haste>Ver>Mast>Crit. The current priority you list is significantly different, with Haste and Weapon DPS at the bottom and Mast and Crit moving up from the bottom to just behind Agi. You specifically note in the change log that changes were made for Legion, not the prepatch, and you state that taking into account both AoE and your talent choice changes, which to me means the switch to Big Game Hunter, is what "punishes" Haste so much.

I fully understand Legion isn't out yet, but I'm just trying to make sure I understand the changes that have been made. I'm attempting to be as prepared as possible for a lot of different variables. Such as which Legion gems to focus on learning to cut first to best support my Hunter main.

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I meant Legion as in prepatch, because we are playing Legion specs..

 

Whatever, I'll be more clear in the future.

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Just now, Azortharion said:

I meant Legion as in prepatch, because we are playing Legion specs..

 

Whatever, I'll be more clear in the future.

It's all good man. This is why I was double checking. I really enjoy and appreciate your work, your my go to source for Hunters. I take what you say seriously.

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