Simcraft + Versatility

[Valtix 0]

Been simming my character (eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/Valtix/advanced) and the stat weights I've been getting are really strange. Here are the normalized stat weights that it gave me.

Str - 1

WDPS - 0.97

Crit - 0.77

Vers - 0.70

Haste - 0.66

Mastery - 0.55

It would make sense if I was way past the Haste cap so it's worth a lot less, but what the hell is up with that Versatility weight?

 

[demonardvark 556]

you actually have a pretty good amount of haste, 20% is kind of the accepted low cap right now, so the best i can assume is that the program is saying "hmm yeah you could use a little more haste but vers is more valuable" plus it sort of takes a lot of haste for the value to be really noticeable. so the program is likely saying you will see an immediate better pay off with more versatility. best guess i got. still odd though because vers is the lowest priority stat for all specs right now, so i would expect mastery to be higher.

[Valtix 0]

That's what's confusing me. I'm past the lowcap so it makes some sense for Haste to maybe be a close 3rd on the stat priority for my gear, but versatility being 2nd is crazy.

[Pupzfluff 0]

These are the normalized stat weights I get from simcraft, and as everyone else, im utterly confused as to why versatility is so high.

Str - 1.00    

Vers - 0.72    

Crit - 0.59    

Mastery - 0.58    

Haste - 0.35

 

I also found noxxics stat weights, these are the scaling factors tho, so I don't know if that makes a difference.

Crit Rating=6.05

Mastery Rating=4.55

Strength=9.05

Haste Rating=7.55

Versatility=3.05

And they seem to agree more with all the stat prios out there, but can you trust them?

[Shells 64]

Did you hit scaling when you were running your sims?

 

It will give you more normalised values. 

[Valks 2,373]

There seems to be so much surprise when Vers does well. It just wants to be included guys :(

[Sniz 60]

This topic is particularly relevant right now because I suspect a lot of players are getting to the point where they are starting to have to choose between 840 gear pieces.  Not to mention which crafted pieces to buy...

I trust Icey but I like to check other sources as well and the priority results are mixed.  Mr Robot Sim gives Vers the highest marks and a buddy of mine tried to run a sim on my DK and it came back "Blood DK coming soon" or something.

The Blood artifact offers hints and personally I am liking (and going for) the 8% damage reduction based on Crit % over the Blood Shield buff (which after closer look may not be that great as it basically requires a double Death Strike to actually work. Who double death strikes?)

Im not sure what scales to put in pawn and its frustrating.

Is blood one of those classes where you just need a solid balance of everything?  This makes BiS conversations worthless...

[demonardvark 556]

21 hours ago, Sniz said:

This topic is particularly relevant right now because I suspect a lot of players are getting to the point where they are starting to have to choose between 840 gear pieces.  Not to mention which crafted pieces to buy...

I trust Icey but I like to check other sources as well and the priority results are mixed.  Mr Robot Sim gives Vers the highest marks and a buddy of mine tried to run a sim on my DK and it came back "Blood DK coming soon" or something.

The Blood artifact offers hints and personally I am liking (and going for) the 8% damage reduction based on Crit % over the Blood Shield buff (which after closer look may not be that great as it basically requires a double Death Strike to actually work. Who double death strikes?)

Im not sure what scales to put in pawn and its frustrating.

Is blood one of those classes where you just need a solid balance of everything?  This makes BiS conversations worthless...

No, not typically, its not. Every tank spec can do a dps, survival, or mixed sort of stat priority talent build, but for just doing your job aka surviving blood has always been stack one stat till your eyes bleed, in wod its was multistrike, in mop it was mastery, etc. So, haste, mastery for raw survival makes sense and is very similar to how we've always been. The only thing I can think of and i question the sims are this sophisticated but maybe, is that versatility does offer a reduced damage taken component at 50% return. So, 5% versatility is a flat 2.5% reduction. This versus mastery may be appearing to be more valuable to the programs simply because of diminishing returns. However, that is atypically an end game problem. Even then the return on investment from a tank perspective is low, you need a lot of versa for that damage reduction versus just building stupid big blood shields. Now, versa does increase raw damage done too but, that shouldn't factor too much for blood dks. 

Even then though on various other sites (i'm a busy man) most people sims at higher levels still aren't showing versa with a high stat ratio or ROI percentage. So, its a tad bit odd. I mean maybe with tuning differences this time around, maybe 40% mastery or whatever is the point of no return on investment and we should stack versatility, its just really low, and very early in an xpac to be seeing diminishing returns. 

[Sniz 60]

51 minutes ago, demonardvark said:

No, not typically, its not. Every tank spec can do a dps, survival, or mixed sort of stat priority talent build, but for just doing your job aka surviving blood has always been stack one stat till your eyes bleed, in wod its was multistrike, in mop it was mastery, etc. So, haste, mastery for raw survival makes sense and is very similar to how we've always been. The only thing I can think of and i question the sims are this sophisticated but maybe, is that versatility does offer a reduced damage taken component at 50% return. So, 5% versatility is a flat 2.5% reduction. This versus mastery may be appearing to be more valuable to the programs simply because of diminishing returns. However, that is atypically an end game problem. Even then the return on investment from a tank perspective is low, you need a lot of versa for that damage reduction versus just building stupid big blood shields. Now, versa does increase raw damage done too but, that shouldn't factor too much for blood dks. 

Even then though on various other sites (i'm a busy man) most people sims at higher levels still aren't showing versa with a high stat ratio or ROI percentage. So, its a tad bit odd. I mean maybe with tuning differences this time around, maybe 40% mastery or whatever is the point of no return on investment and we should stack versatility, its just really low, and very early in an xpac to be seeing diminishing returns. 

Thanks for the reply! You know, I've been looking online for 2 weeks to confirm a DR soft point for mastery and an educated guess of 40% sounds good to me.  It's something ballpark to shoot for at least.  I also read somewhere that 20% haste is a goal but I'm not sure if that was a soft DR cap or not.

I also wonder if I should forget BiS sheets for now (where you'd end up with all Haste Mastery pieces), and just set overall goals like 40 mast, 25 haste, 20 crit and  judge gear on a drop by drop basis (if ilvls are the same).

Crafted pieces are another issue.  I bought some fireflash (Haste/Crit).  Maybe that was premature.  But in any event, could be useful down the line if I start getting to 40% mastery.

Btw, this is the first xpac that Blood DK is my main. Ive had a general "LFR" idea of the class previously, but now its business! Lol

I appreciate any additional comments you may have on the subject!

[Shells 64]

40 mast, 25 haste, 20 crit is probably a good target to aim for. 

 

I am runing 32 haste, 20 crit and 20 mastery and my blood shields pop far too quickly. I will aim to increase mastery to the 40% ish mark too in the hopes it smooths out damage by making the shield last long enough for the leech to have an impact. 

[Sniz 60]

On September 21, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Shells said:

40 mast, 25 haste, 20 crit is probably a good target to aim for. 

 

I am runing 32 haste, 20 crit and 20 mastery and my blood shields pop far too quickly. I will aim to increase mastery to the 40% ish mark too in the hopes it smooths out damage by making the shield last long enough for the leech to have an impact. 

If you're shield is popping too soon, it also means you can't take advantage of the artifact talant that boosts DS and adds leach.  Im more inclined to try and experiement with the 8% overall damage reduction per crit % one.  But I suspect both working together might be quite nice.  One for the oh crap double DS situations and the other as a damage smoother.

 

i currently have a 40 mast 19 haste 17 crit 3 verse build right now. (But thats just due to ilvl farming and not concentrating on the build.  Im at 340 so ill see how it feels in some Mythics this weekend and report back.)

 

I think the artifacts talents are the key.  Once we unlock all the dragons we'll get a better picture of mastery vs crit.

 

If you twisted my arm right now, I think ill be going for Haste gear with a mix of Mast and Crit.  Fireflash and Feverflare I think.  Keeping btw 35-40 mast and building Haste and Crit at about a 1.5:1 ratio until the simmers figure out the DRs of each.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Sniz