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Talon

How Much Agi is Enough?

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Or maybe I should be asking, how much mastery is enough? The ilvl on my assassination rogue is 512, but my dps vs a raid dummy is around 80k. I've gemmed, reforged, I have all available enchants, and my rotation is flawless. I've talked to other rogues and the only difference I can see between me and them, between 80k and 100k, is that they have more mastery than I do. Other rogues around my level seem to have around 70% mastery, while mine is closer to 55%. Yes, mastery has been my priority for reforging after meeting hit and exp cap (although my hit cap is pretty high at around 9%. It's natural, I've reforged out of it on every item that has it, but that's as low as it'll go. In fact, I've even gone so far as to use agi + stamina gems in a couple of cases rather than the typical agi + hit because I figured the extra hit was useless and at least I'm getting a little something from the stamina). I guess my question then comes down to this - on ocassions where gemming an item calls for, say, a blue gem and the gem bonus is like 60 crit, I've instead used a red 160 agil gem. Would I be better served in those instances using a 320 mastery gem and getting my mastery up higher, or is the agi more beneficial?

FYI, I've attemped using Mr. Robot to sort this out, but after following it's instructions I ended up under exp cap and with a mastery even lower than when I started.

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A couple notes/questions (please don't read this as being harsh/mean Im just keeping it short and sweet :-P) :

-First off to get the best advice I suggest supplying a link to your armory and any logs you may have of fights, this speaks so much more than just I was on a dummy and did x,y,z. This way people can give you exact tips on your performance.

-Nobody does their rotation perfectly, but I get that you mean you understand your rotation and how to interact with procs/buffs and uptimes :)

-When you speak to other rogues, who are doing 100k, are they buffed at all? You mention them being about 15% higher in mastery than you and I'm wondering if they have a mastery buff, or any other buffs (food,flask,potion). It may not seem like much, but those buffs do make a huge difference over a 5-10min fight. Some people go all out on dummies, where some just practice their rotation.

-Its very difficult to compare yourself to other anythings with the huge variables of gear out there. You have to consider Legendary Meta Gems and RPPM trinkets, it can drastically change gameplay and damage output.

-I completely understand about the problem of too much Hit, this tier there is LOADS of it on gear, and it's only going to get worse next tier! With a poor socket bonus (which aren't that common anymore) gemming pure agility is probably your best bet, as its your best stat overall. *However I will say that I have read where 2 haste>1 intellect for some casters, so maybe 320 mastery would be better...

-Lastly, a tip I've had to take to heart myself quite a bit, secondary stats are not going to make or break your character. Yes they help, but 4% more of this or 3% more of that is not going to make up a 15-20k DPS difference. So if you feel you're way behind where you should be and youre reforged/gemmed/chanted like all the other rogues, then the area that needs work is elsewhere.

I applaud you for coming to a forum for help and looking for advice! These places can be quite harsh and I PROMISE I don't mean my post to seem that way, I would just rather someone just honestly put it out there and help me than try to beat around the bush.

Good luck! :)

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I'm not finding any particular point where to focus on after Demyndras post, but do NOT gem agi+stam in blue sockets. The hit in them grants for the dual wield auto attack hit cap. Hit after the 7.5% cap is mostly useless and should be reforged ALL out of it you ever can, (I see you have the valor trinket >:D), but getting few auto attacks done during the match is better than gaining few thousand hp more.

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Demyndra, thanks for the info. Your post didn't come across at all harsh. I also agree that I should have maybe included some sort of log. Maybe I'm just going on false info. My guild recently asked me to test myself on a raid dummy to see if I had sufficient dps for a raid slot. I was told that I should be doin about 20k more dps (that was admittedly before a number of enchants and upgrades). In real life situations I tend to pull over 100k. Was mostly curious about gemming for mastery.

Dreamrogue, your post confuses me. On one hand you say don't use an agi-stam gem cuz I'll need the hit, and then you agree with me and say that excess hit is ueless. So, if adding more hit is useless, why shouldn't I add a bit of stamina, which is at least marginally useful?

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I meant that hit after 7.5% cap is practically useless but still more useful than stamina. I'm sorry for being a bit confusing :)

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Talon, Rogues use http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/, not mrrobot. Hope this helps man.

Well - it does seem that shadowcraft is wrong in a few things...

First of all - as a sub rogue, the stats priority is following:

  • Agility;
  • Hit Rating (until 7.5%);
  • Expertise Rating (until 7.5%);
  • Haste Rating;
  • Critical Strike Rating;
  • Mastery Rating.
Now, at shadowcraft, they have put the stats-weight like this:

Agility

Hit

Strength

Attack Power

Crit

Mastery

Haste

Expertise

Honestly? Shadowcraft doesnt seem to do the trick...

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Well - it does seem that shadowcraft is wrong in a few things...

First of all - as a sub rogue, the stats priority is following:

  • Agility;

        

  • Hit Rating (until 7.5%);

        

  • Expertise Rating (until 7.5%);

        

  • Haste Rating;

        

  • Critical Strike Rating;

        

  • Mastery Rating.
Now, at shadowcraft, they have put the stats-weight like this:

Agility

Hit

Strength

Attack Power

Crit

Mastery

Haste

Expertise

Honestly? Shadowcraft doesnt seem to do the trick...

My first post, please be patient with formatting.

First of all, shadowcraft calculates values based on your current gear, I'm not 100% sure that MR Robot does. Keep this in mind.

As you can see if you take a closer look at Shadowcraft stats weights for my current gear for example:

  • Agility; 2.739, No 1, king, as always.
  • Hit, 1.919 No 2, to cap.
  • Expertise, 1.316 No 3, to cap.
  • Haste, 1.135 No 4.
  • Mastery, 1.129 No 5.
  • Strength, 1.050 No 6, but irrelevant, it's common sense to ignore STR as a rogue as it doesn't exist on our gear (it does provide 1 ap though. And stacks with 5% raid buff that can be provided from BM hunters, palas and druids.
  • Crit, 1.016 No 7, as far as I've played, crit is only nice to have in PVP. Agility provides enough crit as it is. And it's annoyingly attached to our gear anyway
  • Attack Power 1.000 No 8, AP does no longer exist on gear. Provided by agility and base strength
  • Hit, 0.625 No 9, after cap.
Just did a test before posting and both Mr Robot and Shadowcraft proposes the same optimization on my current gear.

Just remember that Shadowcraft will never suggest to put STR on your gear, but it is a stat which is boosted by a raidbuff and therefor giving it a higher value.

Cheers

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