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Lorethal

wow. monk. mistweaver. bis. analysis Mistweaver equip debates + help with analysis

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Hi all

everybody say "Crit+ versatily bis" or " Crit+mastery"

But what do you think about Mastery-haste build ( not only for Mythic+)?

Armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/голдринн/Морбунг/simple

Logs 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zQMnVFd8CA6kpcKR/#type=healing

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2Aw6aK8YtybNmcJH#fight=28&type=healing

 

need analysis of my equip and should i also move to Crit-versatility/Crit+mastery priority?

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I would say that you have way too much mastery. There's a few problems with mastery that makes it less desirable generally (Although it is great to have in 5 mans). Firstly, you need to expend mana to access it (Sheilun's gift is an exception, but you're casting that more for the raw healing than the mastery). Crit and versatility don't require as much mana to be effective, as their effectiveness is still there after the cast is done, with the likes of Enveloping Mist and Renewing Mist benefitting from them. This leads to greater efficiency in raiding, as we get the same or more thoroughput for less mana. Additionally, mastery doesn't really help our AoE that much, as we don't have a move that does AoE and triggers mastery (Essence font gives double healing from mastery, but we still need to spend mana to activate that effect). Crit and versatility increase our raw effectiveness with our spells, allowing us to AoE heal better.

Haste is a weird stat for us, as it doesn't actually increase our numbers, but simply increases our cast speed and reduces our global cooldown (There's no breakpoints for us that can make haste heal more, unlike other healers). However, what it does do can be very potent, and so if you aren't hurting for mana in boss fights in raiding, you should get more haste on your gear. It has a stat weight of 5 when above the mana cap, which is huge for us (Intellect has a stat weight of 2.74, for reference). The bonus cast speed is incredibly potent, so long as you can actually support it without going OOM. Otherwise, mastery is good to have when going OOM in a fight.

Mastery isn't a bad stat per se, but the other stats are better than it, and so with your gear, I would advise cutting down on the mastery and looking for other stats instead. Mastery is just too costly to run compared to the other stats, and having more of the other stats will provide more consistency with your healing, and provide better AoE healing. Also, just skimming through your logs, and I noticed that you had a lot of overhealing on Chi Burst (73% overhealing) and (Worrying for a mastery monk) Gust of Wind (30% overhealing) . I would advise that you focus on improving your efficiency with them moves by only using Chi Burst when multiple members take damage and getting to grips with the effectiveness of your heals. Also, you have a really high uptime on Essence Font (40% and 33%), and a high cast usage (20% and 17%). Essence font is incredibly expensive to cast, and spamming it will really dent your mana. An alternative is to blanket people in Renewing Mist, or to use Chi Burst or Rushing Jade Wind for high raid damage, depending on the talents you take and the setup of your raid for that encounter.

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There are a few things you are saying that are wrong (or incomplete) on mastery and haste so I'd like to correct (even if I do agree that mastery is not a stat you want to stack too much) :

- Mastery does not help our HoT : Wrong especially for Renewing Mist. Basically, what mastery gives you is a bigger upfront heal on your HoTs which means you have less to heal with your HoTs (and your renewing mist will jump sooner). Wether the heal comes from the upfront heal or the healing over time is not important (as long as gust does not overheal) especially for renewing that can jump. Enveloping Mist is a bit different as it does not jump and I honestly don't know if the gust you get from that cast benefits from the bonus healing on the target. Nevertheless, saying that mastery makes you cast more and spend more mana because of "less effective HoTs" is wrong. None of your HoTs should overheal and as long as your mastery is at a reasonable level your gust should not either.

 

-Mastery does not help our AoE healing : completely true which is the biggest drawback to the stat IMO (and is the main reason it's not that mana efficient to have a lot). You can certainly abuse from the double proc on the essence font HoT but that does change the fact that it does nothing for your revival and all the AoE healing you get from talents or your artifact.

 

- Haste is mostly benefitial for the cast time reduction : Incomplete. Haste is your best scaling stat for HoTs plain and simple. As it also offers more ticks, you should also get more Uplifting Trance procs which buffs your Vivify healing. Theorically, if you get more than 20% haste you could get another cast off during the essence font HoT. That said, it does not buff a lot of your other healing sources which is the reason why like mastery it does not seem wise to have to much haste (and very little people get over 20% haste), well that and the obvious mana issues you could get from high haste.

 

That said, I have no idea where your stat weight comes from and I'm pretty curious. IMO, stat weights depend on a lot of factor like talent chosen but even if those numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, I would very much like to see what are the hypothesis and calculations that gave you those numbers.

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15 hours ago, sogar said:

There are a few things you are saying that are wrong (or incomplete) on mastery and haste so I'd like to correct (even if I do agree that mastery is not a stat you want to stack too much) :

- Mastery does not help our HoT : Wrong especially for Renewing Mist. Basically, what mastery gives you is a bigger upfront heal on your HoTs which means you have less to heal with your HoTs (and your renewing mist will jump sooner). Wether the heal comes from the upfront heal or the healing over time is not important (as long as gust does not overheal) especially for renewing that can jump. Enveloping Mist is a bit different as it does not jump and I honestly don't know if the gust you get from that cast benefits from the bonus healing on the target. Nevertheless, saying that mastery makes you cast more and spend more mana because of "less effective HoTs" is wrong. None of your HoTs should overheal and as long as your mastery is at a reasonable level your gust should not either.

 

-Mastery does not help our AoE healing : completely true which is the biggest drawback to the stat IMO (and is the main reason it's not that mana efficient to have a lot). You can certainly abuse from the double proc on the essence font HoT but that does change the fact that it does nothing for your revival and all the AoE healing you get from talents or your artifact.

 

- Haste is mostly benefitial for the cast time reduction : Incomplete. Haste is your best scaling stat for HoTs plain and simple. As it also offers more ticks, you should also get more Uplifting Trance procs which buffs your Vivify healing. Theorically, if you get more than 20% haste you could get another cast off during the essence font HoT. That said, it does not buff a lot of your other healing sources which is the reason why like mastery it does not seem wise to have to much haste (and very little people get over 20% haste), well that and the obvious mana issues you could get from high haste.

 

That said, I have no idea where your stat weight comes from and I'm pretty curious. IMO, stat weights depend on a lot of factor like talent chosen but even if those numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, I would very much like to see what are the hypothesis and calculations that gave you those numbers.

1. I have never seen anything that suggests that Renewing Mist's jumps trigger mastery. I have never seen a jump cause a big amount of healing (Which suggests the mastery). In all my reading up, I've never seen anyone say that mastery triggers from jumps. Mastery only procs on the initial cast, so it doesn't benefit the HoT. Sure, it gives more upfront healing, but our mastery doesn't increase the healing of the HoT. That's why versatility and crit are better for our HoTs. What this means for our Enveloping Mist is that it will increase the healing of our mastery when it procs, but the HoT itself doesn't cause the proc. Mastery procs on casts, not jumps. Mastery gives more upfront healing, but as I said, it doesn't increase the raw numbers of our HoTs, as Gust of Wind is it's own spell. Also, you should ALWAYS be casting Renewing Mist (Unless there's absolutely no damage going out and there's no chance of any damage going out). It's far too efficient to be saving for damage, regardless of mastery. Overhealing on it doesn't matter, because of the jumping nature and it's low cooldown.

2. Ye.

3. Haste gives us more thoroughput, not more healing. Healing is raw numbers, while thoroughput increases our HPS. We get no notable haste breakpoints that really increase our healing output, so it just increases our HPS. However, this can be bad if we don't have the raw healing power to sustain that haste. That being said, I don't know where you got the idea that we get a notable breakpoint for haste, because in all my reading of Mistweaver guides, reddit posts and blogs, I've only heard the point that we have no notable breakpoints.

I got my numbers from a person named Geodew, who made a post on MMO champion: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1911741-GUIDE-SUPPLEMENT-Geodew-s-Mistweaver-Stat-Weights-7-0

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Hmm, it seems my explanation was not clear so I"m sorry for the misunderstanding.

Gust of Wind does not proc from jumps for sure and I never intended for anyone to believe so. What I'm saying is that mastery, by boosting Gust of Wind, boost your heal per cast on your HoTs. Saying that Gust of Wind is it's own spell is irrevelant. The two important part is that your heal per cast is boosted and that it should not cause some overheal. Wether you consider the fact that renewing mist could jump sooner from the bigger upfront Gust of Wind a pro or not is debatable but that's still a side effect. My point is, that taking into account only the heal of your HoTs without the Gust of Wind (which by the way also scale from versatility and crit) is wrong because that's not how it works in effect. You should look at heal per cast adding the gust of wind (in theory you should also consider the potential of a second proc but whatever). I'm not saying that mastery will give you a better throughput than crit, versatility and haste taking those into account but it does have an effect. 

 

On the point about haste, it's not an important breakpoint. It does exist in theory but you miss way too much by going this far and gain far too little (which is the reason noone consider it). Basically, past that breakpoint your next 5 cast get the double proc from gust of wind instead of the next 4 after an essence font cast. But, as I said, not relevant.

Thanks for the link. I'll need to take time to look deeper into his simulation.

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