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Collection of Imp Swarm Knowledge

8 replies to this topic Started by gahhda, Aug 17 2013 12:34 AM
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Posted 17 August 2013 - 12:34 AM

#1
gahhda
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Thought I'd repost this information in a more collapsed format, as it is currently spread among multiple threads/pages/posts.

 

Because of how the nerf played out, imp swarm is a dps loss at all haste levels. However, it should be noted that it's only a 2% dps loss to use, and provides utility in the opener allowing you to maintain metamorphosis much more easily, and can line up with burst mechanics on bosses resulting in higher dps.

 

Comparing with no haste, counting 5.4 nerf to imp swarm:

 

Imp Swarm has a base of 2 imps per minute when used on cd

120 second base cd

24 second icd on demonic calling

 

Without glyph, demonic calling provides 3 imps per minute

20 second icd on demonic calling

 

The most optimal way to use imp swarm is to delay for said dark soul, as the 30% mastery it provides increases the damage of the imps. Even though you lose imps per minute from delaying it for DS, you end up netting more total damage because the damage of each individual imp goes up by a large percentage.

 

Every 20% haste, you gain an additional imp between imp swarm coming off cooldown. This is because of the previous explanation for delaying for dark soul. As haste increases the cooldown of imp swarm decreases, but the cooldown of dark soul is stagnant. Thus, as haste increases, there is a gap between the cooldown of imp swarm and dark soul, allowing you to get demonic calling procs, which switches back on as soon as imp swarm comes off cooldown.

 

Maths:

 

h  = x * 0.2

x = the number of wild imps you want to fit in between the imp swarm and dark soul cooldown gap
h = the haste required, in decimal format

Put simply, its every 20%. I can give more daunting math on this if requested, but its just a bunch of long algebra manipulation.

To calculate the haste rating required without raid buff, for reforging or whatever:

(( h + 1 ) / 1.05 - 1 ) * 100 * 425 = haste rating required

The 1st breakpoint is: 6071.4285714285714285714285714286
The 2nd breakpoint is: 14166.666666666666666666666666667
The 3rd breakpoint is: 22261.904761904761904761904761905

The 4th breakpoint is: 30357.142857142857142857142857143

The 5th breakpoint is: 38452.380952380952380952380952381

 

At higher haste levels it becomes possible to use imp swarm twice between the dark soul cooldown. You achieve this point by default at the 5th breakpoint. When used at the same time as dark soul you can achieve it at the 4th breakpoint with bloodlust or meta. You can also achieve it slightly above the third breakpoint (2408 haste more) with bloodlust and meta up.

 

Generally speaking this only happens at pull, but keep it in mind. If you like playing higher haste demonology then you can very likely get an extra imp swarm in there. I'm making a weakauras string that tracks the current cooldown on both imp swarm and dark soul counting haste buffs, so I instantly know if I can use it again before dark soul comes up, as there are situations where you may have something like a meta proc on the first use and a meta proc on the second use as well, drastically altering the math. I'll be posting it asap.

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:49 AM

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Darthsoul
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Is 22k haste even going to be achievable?

Posted 17 August 2013 - 12:13 PM

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Lockybalboa
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Is 22k haste even going to be achievable?

 

Yes, during PTR I was sitting at around 19k haste when it was scaled to 560ilvl and I was more mastery focused then I was haste. Getting 22k haste is DOABLE but it will need almost BiS and full haste gems, I think.

 

Question/comment - when enough haste to get two full imp swarms per normal DS CD, doesn't that make the new Archimond's even more powerful for Demo? Staggering the CD so that you're using one charge of DS per imp swarm would vastly increase the power of the glyph.

 

Granted this would not be a very plannable event since it needs the high end haste AND meta and/or lust but it should be considered at least. Even if it is only a semi-rare event it seems that it would be useful to use the glyph over not using it.

Posted 17 August 2013 - 02:58 PM

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Zagam
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I've got the math to show it (on a spreadsheet at work), but I don't think reaching for super high natural Haste will be worth it.  Timing Imp Swarm with Tempus Repit will be highly beneficial, just as it is now. 

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:42 AM

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Caxamillion
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Given the current layout of heroic gear the maximum value of haste gained from enchants/gems and reforges which maintain hit caps is around 20,410. Given upgrades and warforged gear 22k haste may just be attainable but will leave you under 10k mastery. I should mention that this is with 4-piece. Dropping to 3-piece (or less) can result in slightly higher haste values at the cost of losing the 4-piece bonus.

 

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:09 PM

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JvChequer
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I think in the most fights Imp Swarm will not be used, as you said it's a dps loss, and the only favorable situation is a often dmg modifier phase and a more sustained opening.

Since our opening will be nerfed with the change in RPPM stuff, probably we will buid some fury before use the Dark Soul, so I don't see a strong point to use Imp Swarm just because this.

 

At the end of the day, it's just about bursty or sustained fury preference in most of the fights.

 

I wish blizzard change Imp Swarm to 1:30 the Imp swarm and 3 imps, the main reason about the Glyph change it's probably the burst and great fury generation provided, not the dps gain itself, I think, if they lower both time and "power" would be way more fair.

 

But, who I am to claim something.... /sad

Edited by JvChequer, 19 August 2013 - 01:11 PM.

Hello.

Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:48 PM

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Zagam
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I believe the reason you won't take Glyph of Imp Swarm has nothing to do with the Imp damage and has everything to do with the Molten Core charges they generate.  You'll want a consistent flow of MC charges with the 2pc bonus because you will want to cast Soul Fire every opportunity you get if the buff isn't up.  The number of Imps you get is largely irrelevant with the glyph because not taking the glyph provides the exact same amount.  However, interval Haste procs such as Tempus Repit will lower the CD on Demonic Calling while it would have no effect on Imp Swarm while it was on CD.  Not taking the glyph may, in fact, provide a higher number of Imps, provide more consistent DPS, less burst DPS, and better MC management to proc 2pc bonus.

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 03:19 PM

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JvChequer
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I indeed forget about 2tp, not played PTR so I'm not familiar with the new stuff :P

Hello.

Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:23 PM

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Zagam
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I haven't played the PTR yet, either, just looked at the set bonuses and considered everything possible.  Gahhda is doing the Simcraft profile to hopefully model it, but Simcraft models ideal worlds with ideal RNG...so I'll be looking at how to best theorize how it'll work once I collect some live data.

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