Astynax

A question about trinkets, RPPM, and specifically KTT.

12 posts in this topic

So, first off: Thank you IV. Over the past two week, you've gained me ~25k DPS in both my specs, and I love you guys for it. =)

 

 

Secondly, I have realized now that I don't understand some of the more recent patch changes that have come out, specifically regarding RPPM, its interaction with haste, and what that means for my (aff) DPS.

 

Currently, I'm running LFR versions of PBI and KTT. PBI I get. It's pretty standard, and pretty awesome. Also, as I understand it, it's ICD is unaffected no matter if I have a 130% haste rating.It'll still proc at approximately the same rate.Am I correct?

 

I'm also using KTT. This one I don't really get. Every time I deal damage, I have an X% chance to deal Y% of that damage again? What kind of DPS increase does this one give me? It also procs intellect. If I stack 120% haste, does that give me more procs of this? I know RPPM was nerfed recently, but I don't understand how.

 

Moreover, if I can get the normal version of wush, or LFR BBY, is this a DPS increase? Do these RPPM change my stat priority? I'm just having trouble understanding the changes to these items? 

 

Thanks again!

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KTT has two components to it, Multistrike and the Intellect proc.

 

Multistrike's approximate damage contribution can be calculated by taking your trinket version's % chance to proc and cutting that into a third.  For example, mine is 17.9% (574 version), so I can safely assume I should see Multistrike contribute around 5.9% of my total damage (17.9 * 0.33333). 

 

The Intellect proc has an RPPM value of 0.92 at the 553 version.  If you look on the first page of the trinket guide, you'll see how RPPM fluxuates with item level.  Haste does NOT effect the RPPM of KTT, only the item level does.  Therefore, your LFR version trinket is 528, but I'll assume you upgraded it to 536.  The formula for checking the RPPM of your trinket is this:

 

P(528) = P(553) * 1.15^((528-553)/15) or 0.92 * 1.15^((-25)/15) which is 0.729, or 0.73.  To compare, my version, the 574 version, would be calculated as 0.92*1.15^((21/15)) = 1.119, or 1.12.  You can see that the higher item level increases your passive damage as well as the uptime of your trinket. 

 

There's nothing else to understand in terms of anything.  Stat priorities never change.  Stats don't change your DPS in a significant matter.  Just proper play and proper execution and use of trinket procs will make your DPS higher.  You have the two BiS trinkets for Destruction/Demo, so you really should just worry about upgrading them to flex, normal, and heroic versions.

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Thank you Zagam! Love the maths. I'll have to sit down and work those out when I get the opportunity to. Thanks for the clarification on RPPM. I was pretty confused with all the old and conflicting info on RPPM. My understanding was that haste was so good because it, at one point or another, affected RPPM, which made it more valuable, or something along those lines, and that wasn't entering my setups in simc, which I've read about weirdness on. 

 

So for my destro spec, KTT and PBI are BIS until I upgrade them? Is PBI and BBY better for my aff?

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PBI is BiS all around, but typically with better gear.  If you're LFR only or just getting into normals and flex, BBoY and KTT will prove better with proper use.  KTT shines as Affliction as well, but proper BBoY use will just be too good.

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PBI is BiS all around, but typically with better gear.  If you're LFR only or just getting into normals and flex, BBoY and KTT will prove better with proper use.  KTT shines as Affliction as well, but proper BBoY use will just be too good.

Awesome. Exactly what I needed to know. Thanks a ton Zagam. =)

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PBI is BiS all around, but typically with better gear.  If you're LFR only or just getting into normals and flex, BBoY and KTT will prove better with proper use.  KTT shines as Affliction as well, but proper BBoY use will just be too good.

Zag and anyone else who can comment,  I have Wush (530) and PBI (548) and KTT (540) dropped for me tonight.  Do I now drop Wush or is Wush still better?  I generally play Destro on most fights and Afflic on Protectors.

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Zag and anyone else who can comment,  I have Wush (530) and PBI (548) and KTT (540) dropped for me tonight.  Do I now drop Wush or is Wush still better?  I generally play Destro on most fights and Afflic on Protectors.

Drop wush for KTT. The int proc is comparable plus you get the multi strike proc which while not huge per proc the amount you get makes up about 3-4% dps.

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Zag and anyone else who can comment,  I have Wush (530) and PBI (548) and KTT (540) dropped for me tonight.  Do I now drop Wush or is Wush still better?  I generally play Destro on most fights and Afflic on Protectors.

Just think about this for a second.  I know everyone wants an answer, but I'm going to show you my thought process. 

 

Destruction - Wush vs KTT vs PBI

 

Wush - stacking Int proc, tons of Hit rating, can reforge some into Mastery.  You can snap two CBs in the last 5 seconds of Wush for an average Int gain of around 10k. 

 

KTT - pretty solid Int proc at around 10k for 10 seconds.  No ramp up needed, so you can fully utilize the entire proc.  Multistrike >>>>> Hit rating, so KTT > Wush by a long shot here.

 

PBI - the perfect trinket for a class that has a 2 minute cooldown.  Huge, dependable, predictable Intellect proc and 100% uptime on inflated Mastery, Haste, and Crit damage.  PBI > all.

 

Therefore, PBI > KTT >>> Wush. 

 

Not trying to solo you out and definitely not trying to be harsh.  There are just TONS of questions on what trinkets should be used, and if people just slowed down and THOUGHT about them (notice: no Simcraft), the decision jumps off the page/screen.

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Just think about this for a second.  I know everyone wants an answer, but I'm going to show you my thought process. 

 

Destruction - Wush vs KTT vs PBI

 

Wush - stacking Int proc, tons of Hit rating, can reforge some into Mastery.  You can snap two CBs in the last 5 seconds of Wush for an average Int gain of around 10k. 

 

KTT - pretty solid Int proc at around 10k for 10 seconds.  No ramp up needed, so you can fully utilize the entire proc.  Multistrike >>>>> Hit rating, so KTT > Wush by a long shot here.

 

PBI - the perfect trinket for a class that has a 2 minute cooldown.  Huge, dependable, predictable Intellect proc and 100% uptime on inflated Mastery, Haste, and Crit damage.  PBI > all.

 

Therefore, PBI > KTT >>> Wush. 

 

Not trying to solo you out and definitely not trying to be harsh.  There are just TONS of questions on what trinkets should be used, and if people just slowed down and THOUGHT about them (notice: no Simcraft), the decision jumps off the page/screen.

Hi Zag,

 

That is fantastic and it makes me very excited!

 

If I was playing Affliction and the PBI proc'd, I would refresh my DOTS on all the mobs.  Am I right in saying that if no other trinket proc'd in the next 20 seconds, I would again refresh my dots in the 19th second of the intellect proc of PBI and therefore get the full intellect boost for the full duration of the refreshed DOTS?

 

Likewise if any other proc occurred, say from KTT during the 20 seconds of PBI, I would refresh all DOTS, is that right?

 

Last question is how "Multi-Strike" works?  if it is an instant proc then I would think it would instantly affect ALL the DOTS on ALL the mobs.  But if it is instant can one take advantage of it by refreshing DOTS or does it just affect the DOTS that are in place, once off?

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Hi Zag,

 

That is fantastic and it makes me very excited!

 

If I was playing Affliction and the PBI proc'd, I would refresh my DOTS on all the mobs.  Am I right in saying that if no other trinket proc'd in the next 20 seconds, I would again refresh my dots in the 19th second of the intellect proc of PBI and therefore get the full intellect boost for the full duration of the refreshed DOTS?

 

Likewise if any other proc occurred, say from KTT during the 20 seconds of PBI, I would refresh all DOTS, is that right?

 

Last question is how "Multi-Strike" works?  if it is an instant proc then I would think it would instantly affect ALL the DOTS on ALL the mobs.  But if it is instant can one take advantage of it by refreshing DOTS or does it just affect the DOTS that are in place, once off?

If you had no other procs happen and your trinket was about to wear off and your DoTs were close to wearing off, yes, you'd want to refresh.

 

If another proc happened while PBI was up and you had already put DoTs up, you'd immediately want to refresh your DoTs and then re-refresh as either of the procs wore off to extend the duration of the DoTs as long as possible. 

 

Multistrike works exactly as the tooltip says.  You have % chance to do 1/3 of the damage your attack just did.  It does this per spell, so no, you wouldn't get a 3 for 1 proc deal.  Each spell has a unique chance each damage application of proccing Multistrike.

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Just think about this for a second.  I know everyone wants an answer, but I'm going to show you my thought process. 

 

Destruction - Wush vs KTT vs PBI

 

Wush - stacking Int proc, tons of Hit rating, can reforge some into Mastery.  You can snap two CBs in the last 5 seconds of Wush for an average Int gain of around 10k. 

 

KTT - pretty solid Int proc at around 10k for 10 seconds.  No ramp up needed, so you can fully utilize the entire proc.  Multistrike >>>>> Hit rating, so KTT > Wush by a long shot here.

 

PBI - the perfect trinket for a class that has a 2 minute cooldown.  Huge, dependable, predictable Intellect proc and 100% uptime on inflated Mastery, Haste, and Crit damage.  PBI > all.

 

Therefore, PBI > KTT >>> Wush. 

 

Not trying to solo you out and definitely not trying to be harsh.  There are just TONS of questions on what trinkets should be used, and if people just slowed down and THOUGHT about them (notice: no Simcraft), the decision jumps off the page/screen.

 Can you do this for affliction too?   I'm curious about what you think about it.

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BBoY for aff. SB:SS for dots at 10 stack. And haste is a lot better than hit from wush last tier.

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