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bangorme

So, is affliction out?

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I'm looking at the top locks here, and you are all spec'd out of affliction (even as a secondary stat), except one.  So can we assume this isn't the spec of choice anymore, as it was thought when 5.4 came out?

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Affliction is fine.  Some of us just don't enjoy the play style.

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Affliction is fine.  Some of us just don't enjoy the play style.

Doesn't look like ANY of you enjoy the"play style", so I'm thinking the reality is that it doesn't work well in practical use.  This is something that needs to be put out there.  For us casual players, we need practical advice.  Maybe I missed where this was stated.

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I'm not lying to you.  Affliction is just boring for many of us.  For the rest, they pretty much just follow whatever is new.

 

There is nothing wrong with playing Affliction, and if you do, you will be extremely competitive if played right, just like any of the other 2 specs.

 

If you're casual, then you probably shouldn't be too concerned with minor differences in DPS on a fight to fight basis.  Play what you enjoy.  That said, all of the guides here are still up to date and will help you with any spec you'd like to play.  We'd also be happy to answer any specific questions you might have about whatever spec you decide on.

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I only play affliction when it's too damn overpowered.

 

If it's not, it's just a shitty spec with boring gameplay.

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I'm not lying to you.  Affliction is just boring for many of us.  For the rest, they pretty much just follow whatever is new.

 

There is nothing wrong with playing Affliction, and if you do, you will be extremely competitive if played right.

I'm certainly not accusing anyone of lying, or I wouldn't be here lol.  But, I've seen this before.  XXXXXX spec works well, just none of us use it.  So, I'm just suggesting that whatever led the most knowledgeable locks here to move away from it (and I've never seen ANYONE here say affliction was boring), let's get that out here and stop talking about theory.  Some of us have been pounding our heads against the wall trying to make affliction work, and there seems to be a good reason why everyone is running around as destruction (other than it being an easy spec to play). 

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Lol, I don't know what to tell you then I guess.  There isn't some behind the scenes concept going on.  This is how it's always been.  Certain people pick up a new spec, flaunt it around, then all of a sudden it's the new Jesus.

 

You're just acting like information is being withheld from the general population when that isn't the case.  Going into this patch I said, "Dammit, I'm going full crit Destruction for S&G's."  Half true, mastery is higher, but it seems to be working.

 

You say you want to know why the knowledgeable warlocks moved away from Affliction, well, not all of them did.  Check Raidbots, you'll see that even recently Affliction is one of the top specs in the game.  Honestly, a lot of us here just don't enjoy it.  There's nothing else to it.  Warlocks are in one of the best spots they've ever been.  You can play *any* spec you want and do not only well, but AMAZING.

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Doesn't look like ANY of you enjoy the"play style", so I'm thinking the reality is that it doesn't work well in practical use.  This is something that needs to be put out there.  For us casual players, we need practical advice.  Maybe I missed where this was stated.

 

The pick of specs isn't as clean cut as you want to make it out to be. They all have pros and cons and a lot of the pros and cons depend on what fight, what level of play, what gear, etc.

 

All of the specs are strong if played right and with the right gear set up. All of the fights are viable in 10 and 25 in reg and heroic. All of the specs are relatively competitive with each other on most of the fights.

 

Demo is common with locks doing heroics or that love a more challenging spec, but it takes a lot more skill to use really well then the other two specs and it also requires PBI.

 

Aff is the best multi target spec in the game, the DoT cleave is unreal. Simpler than demo it also has a strong place as a more "starter" spec for people

 

Destro is by far the easiest spec of warlocks, maybe even of WoW. The burst is almost unbeatable and the AoE cannot be touched.

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Shh, omaric, the status quo must be mantained, don't let them know that all raidbot's damage data is fake.

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I was Affliction for Paragons kill last week. Would have probably went Demo if I had PBI over KTT.

 

Now we're on Garrosh which I'll be going Destro for.

 

When I get PBI I'll be going Destro/Demo because their stat priorities are similar (less on the haste). That and I'd like to try out the "new" Demo.

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(and I've never seen ANYONE here say affliction was boring), let's get that out here and stop talking about theory.  Some of us have been pounding our heads against the wall trying to make affliction work, and there seems to be a good reason why everyone is running around as destruction 

 

 

Aff is boring. I've said that a lot. I've seen many other warlocks say it also.

 

I'm easily one of the upper level warlocks in the world, progression, ilvl, dps, theory crafting, raw skill, it's safe to say that I'm at worst top 50 world.

 

I also think Aff is a dull spec to play. Turn on AffDots, turn off brain. GG top 20 rank. 

 

I also raid as Aff almost every raid night. I play what works best for the raid, my gear, and my level of brain power for the night. Aff is fine, it's used by plenty of top locks around the world.

 

Destro is very strong, the mechanics in SoO play really well to its strengths on most fights. This in no way invalidates Aff and demo nor does it even make destro the best spec for every fight. There are to many other factors at play, gear, personal skill, raid comp, raid size, progression, etc. All of this play a part in what spec does the most damage and what spec a individual will play. For the moment, a lot of warlocks are favoring destro/demo. This is partly because a lot more people have their PBI now (fuck you all) partly because people freak out when they see aff get nerfed, partly they just want to try something new, partly because 50 other reasons.

 

All three specs work fine under the right circumstances. Just because for the moment a lot of people have speced out of something, doesn't make it bad.

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Continuing on with what Locky said above (edit: above above).  The fight, competency of spec and gear all play a huge role in what is good.  There are certain tipping points for certain specs on certain fights that push them above the threshold.  For example, Zagam recently went Demonology for H Paragons.  He dominated not only because the fight caters to the way Doom interacts with sustained multi-target fights, but because he is very comfortable with the spec and he now has the gear to back it up.  There are many factors to what made that so good for him.

 

If I were to roll into that fight without a PBI and linked my logs on here, everyone would be like, "Wow Omaric, either you suck balls or your spec does on that fight.  You let the Marksman Hunter beat you even."  Then I would cry, BUT THE POINT IS, there is no practical answer.  That's why we have these amazing forums that give you specific replies to specific questions.  The guides are there for casuals to jump in.  We love Warlocks as a class here, not a spec.  We had no issue telling people that certain specs are garbage last tier or the tier before, because it was true.  This tier all specs are completely viable, but there are still factors to consider like the above example.

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It's not a problem.  Just for those out there that haven't been through this before, if you want to know what actually works in practice, look at what the knowledgeable people here are actually USING.   Don't listen to the "every spec can work if YOU play it right," that's true, but not useful.  I'm not accusing anyone of hiding information, just not clearly communicating what was actually working for them.  Attempting to trivialize my initial question just makes it look like it was on point.

 

And it's funny to see the same people citing Raidbot, when it was put down when I cited it after 5.4 came out. 

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Maybe saying "every spec can work if YOU play it right" isn't useful to some, but can you tell me if this is useful:

 

"Play Demonology, it's the best spec.  Oh, I forgot to tell you, you need this ilvl, on this boss, with at least 2 of these 3 trinkets." ?

 

Who put down Raidbots?  I use it all the time.  You just have to know how to use it.  I don't look at top parses, I look from a fight by fight basis and scope out the trends between the 50-90 percentile.  That seems to give me a more accurate depiction of where each spec lays.

 

I just.... am trying to understand what you want to see.  Should there be a caption next to the Destruction guide that says, "This is the spec we're all playing, play this one even if it isn't fun for you." ?

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I don't want to start an argument, since the people like yourself, Omaric, put so much effort into this site and it's VERY appreciated.  But, in the beginning the consensus was that affliction was the spec to have, and all of the top players here were spec'ed in it.  Then, today I checked  the specs and affliction was gone.  So, I guess what I would have found useful was the process where afflic was the preferred spec, to where it became the absent spec. 

 

But more importantly, for all those out there that haven't seen this before and just follow the guides, they are theory, not practice.  Look at the top player specs.

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True.  We do have some wishy-washy spec jumpers here (holla).  I can guarantee you that in the most recent case of change it just happens to be preference rather than practicality.  When 5.4 rolled out Demonology was still stop dog, right?  They nerfed trinkets, but UVLS was still rocking out.  They changed it again (not to mention Wild Imps) and we cried and switched to Affliction.  In the interim, Destruction got buffed enough to make it super viable and as your gear gets better Demonology sees the light of day again.  It's hard to say that in a way that everyone *really* understands.  I don't mean like heading bobbing, "gotcha chief" kinda stuff, I mean so that people legitimately understand the fluctuations that are happening this tier and how everything has more or less evened out over the last few weeks.  Gear level really does come into play, so it's hard to really pin down a spec for everyone.

 

As Locky states, he still uses Affliction to good results.  He's one of the best out there.

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But more importantly, for all those out there that haven't seen this before and just follow the guides, they are theory, not practice.  Look at the top player specs.

 

 

The guides are not just theory, they are the result of a collaborated effort made by a lot of warlocks in both theory AND in practical first hand discoveries. 

 

Just "looking at the top player specs" isn't really that useful. What works for Sparkuggz and what works for someone that is just starting SoO normal progression is VERY different. Specs are not a static thing that you can just look at once and be done with it, you need a deeper understanding of it. If you looked at my armory when I was on heroic Malak progression you would have seen me using Dark Apoc. A casual observer that didn't look past my armory for the deeper meaning could be very badly mislead by this. This happens a lot with top players, we're doing something not always within the norm in order to do something very specific. This would also be the case if you even just looked at the top 10 or top 20 warlocks in the world, many of them have downed heroic Garrosh and are now doing what pleases them rather than what is "best". The next bracket down of players are likely workong ON Garroash and maybe doing something else outside of the norm in order to get the fight down. Again, just looking at their armories and making assumptions would lead you astray.

 

Additionally with duel spec a common practice is to use a "farm" spec and a "progression" spec. Sometimes these are one and the same but that is again dependant on a lot of other factors. Personally, Destro is my "farm" spec and Aff is my "progression" spec because I'm working on Blackfuse right now. This also changes raid night by raid night this past week since our raid comp and strat has been changing a lot. I've done both specs in the same night on the same fight a few times now.

 

My point in all of this is; you cannot just look at the armorys of players (even with a large data sample) and extrapolate that Aff is bad or dead or that top warlocks are doing something that we arent sharing with other people. There are simply to many factors that cannot be determined by armory alone.

 

The guides and the warlocks here agree, all three specs are mechanically fine. All three specs have their niche. All three specs will serve you very well if you put some effort into them. This comes from both theoretical and piratical knowledge.

Edited by Lockybalboa

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Quick reference:

 

Poor gear:

 

Affliction->Shite

Destruction-> Shite

Demonology-> Don't even think about it

 

Average Gear:

 

Affliction->Shite

Destruction-> Shite

Demonology-> Don't even think about it

 

Good gear:

 

Affliction->Good for some bosses

Destruction-> Good for most bosses

Demonology-> Good for some bosses

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Shite

 

I enjoy seeing the use of "shite" it makes me happy.

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This comes from both theoretical and piratical knowledge.

Pirate knowledge is fucking win sir.

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Pirate knowledge is fucking win sir.

 

You are a sneaky warlock, I was thinking of witty jokes to make.

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I don't want to start an argument, since the people like yourself, Omaric, put so much effort into this site and it's VERY appreciated.  But, in the beginning the consensus was that affliction was the spec to have, and all of the top players here were spec'ed in it.  Then, today I checked  the specs and affliction was gone.  So, I guess what I would have found useful was the process where afflic was the preferred spec, to where it became the absent spec. 

 

 

If you're looking for the simple answer, it's that Affliction and Demo were nerfed, and Destruction was buffed.

 

If you're looking for the nuanced answer, it's that all three specs are competitive right now, and the specs people choose are dependent on raid composition, personal preference, fight progression, and gear. 

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I may be alone on this, but I love playing affliction, always have. There is something about being DoT focused that I really like and even when I heal, it's only on my druid.  My raid even noticed this recently as they asked me to switch to destro for a fight and I didn't perform near as well.  I just really enjoy affliction and I perform well with it, so I roll with it most of the time.  I really miss the brief moment of cata when drain life was our filler spell, when all this mastery jazz was new.

 

Don't ask me to go Demo... I've tried it multiple times and failed miserably.  I can do it on a training dummy for the most part.  It's just something about swapping into meta, my brain just can't process the "new" spells and I lose focus and start keyboard mashing.  I can't ever remember what does what, I know, I know, they're they same spells just altered (Sbolt -> ToC) but in the heat of the moment I fail every time.

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