Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Ogii

Legendary meta blasphemy???

18 posts in this topic

When asked why he wasn't using it, a fellow 'lock (and a good one at that) in our 25 man raid said that the legendary meta gem is a "sidegrade DPS loss for Destro".

 

Um, what???  Is it even possible to sim those results?  If not, I don't know how he reached that conclusion.

 

The only reason I'm questioning this is because the dude's been playing his Warlock since Vanilla and he's a quality, min/max raider.  That cannot be true though, can it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For destruction, the overalldps is basically the same. While for for the other speccs is sinister>>>burning. So in the end the legendary wins out, especially if you swap speccs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think if he isn't simming he's presumably drawing this conclusion directly from stat priorities, but the benefits of hasted immolate/RoF for ember generation/council fight multidot is reason enough to use Sinister. Having aff/demo OS just compounds the reason.

 

With destro it's all secondary to A) are you playing correctly and B) do you continue to stack mastery to the ceiling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the dps difference between Sinsiter and Burning isn't that big to justify the first over the second for destro. For demo and affli as stated above Sinister > Burning. I'm using a mastery > crit >> haste build (destro) at the moment so I really like the extra Tempus procs. If you are running a bit more heavy haste build maybe your Incinerate casts would go more regularly below 1s in which case the Burning might come out a tiny little bit ahead but all-in-all they should be equal in that case to be honest. Switching one with the other wont have a noticeable impact on your/his dps I'm sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm using the LMG currently since I run affliction on certain fights like like protectors but if you're trying to min/max just destro then burning would be the better choice as it's easy to cap gcd during tempus and lust/hero procs using conflag and you will lose dps doing that. But the amount is is really negligible. So while he is right it's not something to concern yourself with unless you're still trying for a server first kill or something like that.

Edited by DanMonger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're awfully close.  Just makes sense to someone cheap to buy the cheaper Burning one.  Tempus Repit can be valuable in a lot of places.  People still hitting GCD cap need to drop more Haste.  I ONLY run into global capping during Berserking + TR + Bloodlust.  All three have to be in place, and that should only happen for 10 seconds of each fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been running with very low haste as Destruction for awhile now, and it's working.  Because my haste is so low I get quite a bit of benefit from the legendary meta gem because I'm still generally not GCD capping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been running with very low haste as Destruction for awhile now, and it's working.  Because my haste is so low I get quite a bit of benefit from the legendary meta gem because I'm still generally not GCD capping.

Me and Zagam.marsh too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys. I had been running very low haste as well, but was asked why by a much more progressed lock why I wasn't going haste over crit. Just wanted some more input. Sorry for the ninja on your post Ogii. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was running two RPPM trinkets i liked higher haste to lower the times I was having to move during procs.  Now that I have one RPPM and one ICD, the times of overlap for movement vs Ember dumping is mitigated, so I like crit over haste.

 

Currently running with only 3423 haste (18412 Mastery, 10966 Crit), and that's with the Haste/Mastery boots instead of Crit/Mastery, and Haste/Crit Tier shoulders over Offset Crit/Mastery ones... so still room to shift more secondaries from Haste to Crit once the items drop.

 

Legnd meta is VERY nice when your rolling this little haste and fairly important to the opener, IMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Killerjoe...to be honest, some of the top level locks run haste simply because a majority of the top locks in the world (the ones raiding with world first type guilds) run haste.  Some run haste because they favor the play style of haste, especially in aoe, multiple target situations where haste gains a lot more value.  Since an extremely high majority of heroic fights in SOO....almost everyone with about 2 exceptions...have some sort of add/multi-target mechanic, a lot of locks may use haste and state that as a reason.  And some run haste because they still play Affliction or even Demo as an OS on a few certain fights.  On single target, if you know the fights and can position yourself well, crit will out perform haste by a small margin.  On aoe/multi-target fights haste may be sllllightly more beneficial.  

 

At the end of the day, destro is awesome in the fact that either build, or even simply just balancing haste and crit will yield close to optimal results.  As long as mastery is favored above all, the reforge of your secondary stats after mastery should not affect DPS in any major type of way.  

 

So factor in how often you use your OS for thinking about maintaining one of their haste breakpoints and then factor in your preferable play style.  Some just like the value and the play style that more haste offers, while other like the higher numbers on crits/chaos bolts...Either way will work as long as you have a solid rotation and know how to min/max on fights.

Edited by Drafty53
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was asked by a Warlock why I preferred no Haste and I said it was preference.  He/she eluded to the fact that was a mistake until he/she saw me beat them by 80-100k DPS.  Most Warlocks don't like change and they've favored Haste for so long that they don't feel like changing.  Haste is worthless to Destruction.  I'm at 3100 and I'm trying to get to 0.  I can hit 95% crit chance during my opener as well has having 133% Mastery. 

 

People who stack Haste as Destruction are just doing it wrong...not terribly wrong, but it's still wrong.  Any time you global cap, you're passing up potential DPS.  Haste stacking is justifiable if you play another spec, but for pure Destruction, Haste is as bad as Crit is for Affliction.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like Zagam I much prefer to have as little haste as possible, though I currently have lots of gear with haste on it so I can't go really low (about to go switch some gems and reforges around though to get a bit lower). This means the LMG throws in a nice little change to my play every once in a while, and allows me to chuck in a RoF on single-target which breaks the monotony. It also, usually, helps quite a bit in letting me fit in 2 super-duper chaos bolts in my opening regardless of hero / BL, while without it I think I'd be really cutting it fine with getting both in before either KTT or ember master drop off. I say usually because it's dependent on the RNG of proccing ofc

 

Having run with the burning while I was waiting to get my tier-helm, I can say I much prefer having the LMG. But I guess the relatively equal numbers show that it should just come down to preference.

Edited by Oldtrout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Consider the value of the Tempus Repit proc. Immolate does a significant amount of damage. It's not as much as Incin or CB, but it's still a lot. Refreshing during LMG proc is going to get you more there. It's also going to get you more embers from Immo (more ticks coming faster = more crits = more emberbits) and RoF (which you use during a haste proc) on top of this extra damage. More embers means more CB.

 

They really are pretty much equal, and if the only spec you're playing is Destro you can get away with it Burning. If you're not a one trick pony, you should definitely not be using Burning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm at 3100 and I'm trying to get to 0.

 

Lol.  I can totally see you clicking out of the raid haste buff before the pull just on principle.

 

Thanks guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was asked by a Warlock why I preferred no Haste and I said it was preference.  He/she eluded to the fact that was a mistake until he/she saw me beat them by 80-100k DPS.  Most Warlocks don't like change and they've favored Haste for so long that they don't feel like changing.  Haste is worthless to Destruction.  I'm at 3100 and I'm trying to get to 0.  I can hit 95% crit chance during my opener as well has having 133% Mastery. 

 

So, the moral is, secondary stats *do* make that much of a difference, and that is what I should strive for?  ;)

 

Although, I would guess, at an 80 - 100k difference, there was something other than crit > haste going on. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Secondary stats DO make a difference once you've mastered your class.  I think I've emphasized that enough.  It's the final tuning.  You can actually adjust your play to your own personal stats.  I have a completely different opening rotation than the one I list on the guide because I tweaked and designed it specifically for me.  Hitting 900k-1M in my opener and sustaining 750k for 20 seconds is a goal on each pull. 

 

The moral I've been pushing is that most people who come here need to worry about their gameplay first.  Once that 90% is figured out, then we fine tune that last bit of emphasis which makes a bigger difference when you understand how it all comes together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.