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Astynax

Some more logs/advice, I think I'm ready.... I hope?

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Working my way up the meters IV, and you all deserve tons of thanks for that. This is the log from my guild's clear of SoO this week. Tonight's attempts on garrosh aren't up yet, but that's okay. I wasn't the one running these, so there may be some weirdness, and my performance drops off on the later bosses who I don't have the experience with, but I think that's lots of me being new to the encounters in normal.

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/92qk5tm7gnt8f1s5/sum/damageDone/

 

Thanks in advance. =)

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Personally I find your gemming of pure intellect to be a bit weird, as even at your lowish ilvl of 550 I'm still positive that mastery is the way to go. 

 

Should use Int + Mastery in Red, Mastery in Yellow, and Hit + Mastery in Blue. If you find you are still needing to reforge into Hit then begin swapping in Expertise + Mastery gems in your red slots until you are fully reforged out of hit, if possible.

 

This should net you a metric fuck tonne of Mastery, and should mean that when you swap to Grimoire of Sacrifice (which you really should) your chaos bolts will be hitting even harder.

 

In your latest kill of Iron Juggernaut your chaos bolt damage is quite low, and was surpassed by your Incinerate damage. I know this fight can be a pain with some of the movement but as a general rule of thumb, your chaos bolt damage should always be your number one damage source. This boss can be tricky with the movement, but seeing as you don't have to deal with Sawblades you should aim for Chaos bolt as number 1.

 

Your immolate uptime was also quite low. Again, IJ can be a pain due to knockback, but you should only ever be out of range for a fraction of a second with proper positioning, as well as smart usage of your gateway and portal. Should aim for 95%+ uptime on immolate on all fights and slowly increase from there.

 

Your bindings lined up nicely with dark soul including an overlap in execute, but you failed to even use a single potion! Using one of these on the pull, as well as a second in execute phase, would definitely have increased your dps, and you should get into the habit of using 2 on every single fight. They're cheap and really do go a long way to increasing dps.

 

On Malkorok, again you didn't use a single potion. However you were also unlucky in that Bindings didn't proc until very late, such is the RNG on this trinket! Your opener will have been terrible and on a short fight this will have carried over into your final dps. Same as IJ your chaos bolt damage is low, but again it's a fight with a lot of unscripted movement so you may have struggled to fire off Chaos bolts sometimes.

 

Once again, Immolate uptime is in the mid 80 percent which really isn't acceptable. Make sure you can track it and keep it up at all times!

 

Other than that just keep working on gear. You're 10 ilvl behind the other lock and you're lacking 4 set, and your trinkets aren't the best either.

 

If you're looking to improve in small stages, I would advise next reset you make it your aim to keep immolate as close to 100% uptime as possible, and buy yourself a few stacks of potions and make sure you use one just before the boss is pulled, and another when your cooldowns overlap with trinkets, preferably once the boss is under 20% and you have 4 embers ready to blow on shadow burn.

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Using exp gems is debatable at best. One point of int will net you more than one point of a secondary stat. With that said the most accepted way to gem (from my experience) is artful in red, sensei in blue and fractured in yellow and reforge if you need extra hit. Stat priorities being mastery> haste=crit.

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Missing your cloak is also going to hurt your dps a noticeable amount. If yiu can get your hands on that, your four piece and at least flex KTT you'll see probably 50k increase easily as long as you get your uptimes and chaos bolts squared away.

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Using exp gems is debatable at best. One point of int will net you more than one point of a secondary stat. With that said the most accepted way to gem (from my experience) is artful in red, sensei in blue and fractured in yellow and reforge if you need extra hit. Stat priorities being mastery> haste=crit.

"Debatable at best" is really not the case here. Gemming expertise means you can either A) fully reforge out of hit on your items, or cool.png at least not have to reforge into hit on your others.

 

It's true that intellect is worth more than any secondary stat point for point, but you're forgetting that gems grant double the amount of secondary stats as they do intellect. 

 

2 of any secondary stat is worth more than 1 point of intellect, and this is why expertise gems are so valuable.

Edited by Liquidsteel

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Okay, there's really no point in jumping right into his gemming. Yes, it's not in line with what is commonly accepted, but changing it isn't going to make an enormous swing in his DPS. That should be an after thought compared to looking at his logs (which is what he asked for).

 

You have KTT. Even though it's LFR version, you should still be using GoSac as Destro. Your pet doesn't count for the Multistrike.

 

Out of your 16 Chaos Bolts on Iron Juggernaut, only 5 of them were with procs, but then your procs always landed about the same time together, including KTT, so there's only so much you can do about that. That said...

 

Your opener needs change. Here is your opener from IJ:

 

CoE > Immo > Conflag > Conflag > Immo > Incin > Incin > Incin > DS > Terrorguard > Immo > CB > Incin > Conflag > CB

 

That entire thing took 19 seconds for you to get off two CBs. Your goal is to get off two in the first 10 seconds, harder to do as ally, I know, but that's still the goal. Why 10 seconds? Everything should be proc'd at that point. After CoE, before you hit ANYTHING, you should be popping DS. DS gives you extra crit, which not only means your Chaos Bolts are bigger but that you can generate more of them quickly, since all of your spells give you more embers on crit. Don't reapply Immo so soon. Wait until after you get two CBs off. Your opener should look like this:

 

CoE> DS > Immo > Conflag x2 > Incin until 2 embers > CB > CB > Immo > (This is where I use Doomguard) > Try to get another CB or possibly 2 before DS and PBI wear off.

 

If you manage to get to 2 embers before you're under 3 stacks of Backdraft, use them on CB anyway. That 10 second rule is important.

 

On Dark Shaman, you didn't havoc nearly enough.  On a 4 minute fight, you used 4. You should have been able to use at least 8.  The slimes don't last long enough to merit using FNB Immo, IMO. Stick to RoF/Conflag/Incin. Your uptime on Immolate was 89%, which is fine. Sometimes other things are just more important. Again, you weren't using DS in your opener.  When we say line it up with PBI, we mean after that. In a perfect world, it procs within the first couple seconds of the fight, after you've hit DS. When it comes off ICD it takes a couple seconds again to proc. THAT is when you line hold DS.

 

You had a lot of RNG screw on Shamans again, with another big 2-minute window of no procs.

 

For Protectors, try to keep Immolate up more, and, again, use Havoc more.  A lot more. You had better proc coverage, yet still a very, very low average CB. Don't use it outside of procs/havoc if you can avoid it.

 

All the same issues are there on Malkorok.

 

Here are the changes you need to make in how you play:

 

Fix your opener. Use DS. Period.

 

When you're not getting RNG screw, only use Chaos Bolts when you have procs, have Havoc, or are going to cap on embers.

 

Use Havoc more.

 

Start using potions. Pre-pot the pull (hit it at like 1 on the pull timer) and then use it again during the fight when it's most beneficial.

 

Try to keep Immolate up a little more. Sometimes other things take priority, like CB with a proc, but you still really want to try to keep it close to 90%.

 

Now, for the gems, as an afterthought.

 

Gemming for Int hasn't been good since 510 item level. You should absolutely be gemming for mastery. If you're not sure why, read this post.

 

Contrary to what Dan says, gemming Expertise is fine. I've seen a lot of really, really top warlocks do it. One point of hit is worth almost as much as a point of Int up to the cap. Two points of hit is worth considerably more. As long as you have little hit on your gear, you can gem exp. Some like it; some don't. 

Edited by Kazistrasz
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If you read my post I did actually delve into his logs, I just quickly covered his gems at the start as I always like to check armoury first.

 

Your advice is solid for the most part, however I actually disagree with your opener slightly as I feel it is a mistake not to precast anything.

 

If you prepot at 3 seconds you can cast an incinerate and an immolate and they will hit the boss at the same time. Follow this up with your CoE (if you have to) and double conflag then continue as you said. I also pop dark soul before the immolate as I want to gain as many ember bits as possible in the opener.

 

That precasted incinerate has a chance to generate 3 ember bits, but at the very least will provide you with 1. Similarly, not casting immolate until 10 seconds into the fight is pretty bad, as it will most likely have generated at least 1 ember bit by the time you come to cast your second chaos bolt.

 

With current gear levels I have no issues generating a full ember in time, but at lower ilvl I sometimes found it to be hit or miss whether I had enough for back to back chaos bolts on the opener (usually only missing one ember bit), and adding in a precasted incinerate made those troubles disappear. 

 

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I never said gemming expertise was wrong. And Kazistrasz you proved my point at the end saying some like it and some don't which makes it debatable that gemming expertise is in any way optimal.

Edited by DanMonger

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If you read my post I did actually delve into his logs, I just quickly covered his gems at the start as I always like to check armoury first.

 

Your advice is solid for the most part, however I actually disagree with your opener slightly as I feel it is a mistake not to precast anything.

 

If you prepot at 3 seconds you can cast an incinerate and an immolate and they will hit the boss at the same time. Follow this up with your CoE (if you have to) and double conflag then continue as you said. I also pop dark soul before the immolate as I want to gain as many ember bits as possible in the opener.

 

That precasted incinerate has a chance to generate 3 ember bits, but at the very least will provide you with 1. Similarly, not casting immolate until 10 seconds into the fight is pretty bad, as it will most likely have generated at least 1 ember bit by the time you come to cast your second chaos bolt.

 

With current gear levels I have no issues generating a full ember in time, but at lower ilvl I sometimes found it to be hit or miss whether I had enough for back to back chaos bolts on the opener (usually only missing one ember bit), and adding in a precasted incinerate made those troubles disappear. 

 

Whoops. There actually is supposed to be an Immolate in there. I don't like pre-casting for that because of the chance to proc things too soon.

 

When I was ally, getting 2 in 10 seconds wasn't 100%. Now that I have Berserking, there's no trouble in any way.

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Gemming is just like other secondary stats - 90% of the focus, 10% of the importance.

 

90-10 Rule:

 

90% of the attention to DPS classes are spent at reforging when it should be at the DPS dummy or Worldoflogs parses.

10% of your damage results from your secondary stats

 

90% of your damage results from your playing correctly

10% of the attention is spent worry about this

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Missing your cloak is also going to hurt your dps a noticeable amount. If yiu can get your hands on that, your four piece and at least flex KTT you'll see probably 50k increase easily as long as you get your uptimes and chaos bolts squared away.

 

I know.... :'( Currently this is priority 1. I've been farming KTT for weeks, and currently have 2/12 runestones for my cloak... so hopefully that's only a week or two away.

 

"Debatable at best" is really not the case here. Gemming expertise means you can either A) fully reforge out of hit on your items, or cool.png at least not have to reforge into hit on your others.

 

It's true that intellect is worth more than any secondary stat point for point, but you're forgetting that gems grant double the amount of secondary stats as they do intellect. 

 

2 of any secondary stat is worth more than 1 point of intellect, and this is why expertise gems are so valuable.

 

Honestly, it was just something I've been trying. I'm still sitting at what I feel is a comfortable mastery threshold, and I've done both. The difference is like 5k theoretical DPS. It was just something I've been playing around with trying to min/max myself.

 

Okay, there's really no point in jumping right into his gemming. Yes, it's not in line with what is commonly accepted, but changing it isn't going to make an enormous swing in his DPS. That should be an after thought compared to looking at his logs (which is what he asked for).

 

You have KTT. Even though it's LFR version, you should still be using GoSac as Destro. Your pet doesn't count for the Multistrike.

 

Out of your 16 Chaos Bolts on Iron Juggernaut, only 5 of them were with procs, but then your procs always landed about the same time together, including KTT, so there's only so much you can do about that. That said...

 

Your opener needs change. Here is your opener from IJ:

 

CoE > Immo > Conflag > Conflag > Immo > Incin > Incin > Incin > DS > Terrorguard > Immo > CB > Incin > Conflag > CB

 

That entire thing took 19 seconds for you to get off two CBs. Your goal is to get off two in the first 10 seconds, harder to do as ally, I know, but that's still the goal. Why 10 seconds? Everything should be proc'd at that point. After CoE, before you hit ANYTHING, you should be popping DS. DS gives you extra crit, which not only means your Chaos Bolts are bigger but that you can generate more of them quickly, since all of your spells give you more embers on crit. Don't reapply Immo so soon. Wait until after you get two CBs off. Your opener should look like this:

 

CoE> DS > Immo > Conflag x2 > Incin until 2 embers > CB > CB > Immo > (This is where I use Doomguard) > Try to get another CB or possibly 2 before DS and PBI wear off.

 

If you manage to get to 2 embers before you're under 3 stacks of Backdraft, use them on CB anyway. That 10 second rule is important.

 

On Dark Shaman, you didn't havoc nearly enough.  On a 4 minute fight, you used 4. You should have been able to use at least 8.  The slimes don't last long enough to merit using FNB Immo, IMO. Stick to RoF/Conflag/Incin. Your uptime on Immolate was 89%, which is fine. Sometimes other things are just more important. Again, you weren't using DS in your opener.  When we say line it up with PBI, we mean after that. In a perfect world, it procs within the first couple seconds of the fight, after you've hit DS. When it comes off ICD it takes a couple seconds again to proc. THAT is when you line hold DS.

 

You had a lot of RNG screw on Shamans again, with another big 2-minute window of no procs.

 

For Protectors, try to keep Immolate up more, and, again, use Havoc more.  A lot more. You had better proc coverage, yet still a very, very low average CB. Don't use it outside of procs/havoc if you can avoid it.

 

All the same issues are there on Malkorok.

 

Here are the changes you need to make in how you play:

 

Fix your opener. Use DS. Period.

 

When you're not getting RNG screw, only use Chaos Bolts when you have procs, have Havoc, or are going to cap on embers.

 

Use Havoc more.

 

Start using potions. Pre-pot the pull (hit it at like 1 on the pull timer) and then use it again during the fight when it's most beneficial.

 

Try to keep Immolate up a little more. Sometimes other things take priority, like CB with a proc, but you still really want to try to keep it close to 90%.

 

Now, for the gems, as an afterthought.

 

Gemming for Int hasn't been good since 510 item level. You should absolutely be gemming for mastery. If you're not sure why, read this post.

 

Contrary to what Dan says, gemming Expertise is fine. I've seen a lot of really, really top warlocks do it. One point of hit is worth almost as much as a point of Int up to the cap. Two points of hit is worth considerably more. As long as you have little hit on your gear, you can gem exp. Some like it; some don't. 

 

This is great!!

 

I've been trying to pre-pot and use it more efficiently, but I added it to my TMW after this raid, realizing I was failing on it. I also think I got scared w/ my DS, holding it for my PBI, which ended up being bad. I noticed a lot of RNG/RNJew that I was getting on certain fights, and I just couldn't get things to line up well sometimes.

 

And IK my opener is sub-par. I should be able to burst more than 400kdps. Also, I didn't realize that GoSac was always so superior as destro??

 

Part of the reason I didn't multidot/cleave better on protectors (I have little excuse on shamans since the other lock was helping me w/ blobs) was rook going down way too fast. IDK how, but he was a good  5 mil lower than he and sun by the burn phase, and we came close to having him revive because of it. Not sure why this happened, but I noticed this early on, and stopped DPSing him with others as I normally rotate.

 

 

And thanks to everyone who put info up. =)

Edited by Astynax

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This is great!!

 

I've been trying to pre-pot and use it more efficiently, but I added it to my TMW after this raid, realizing I was failing on it. I also think I got scared w/ my DS, holding it for my PBI, which ended up being bad. I noticed a lot of RNG/RNJew that I was getting on certain fights, and I just couldn't get things to line up well sometimes.

 

And IK my opener is sub-par. I should be able to burst more than 400kdps. Also, I didn't realize that GoSac was always so superior as destro??

 

Part of the reason I didn't multidot/cleave better on protectors (I have little excuse on shamans since the other lock was helping me w/ blobs) was rook going down way too fast. IDK how, but he was a good  5 mil lower than he and sun by the burn phase, and we came close to having him revive because of it. Not sure why this happened, but I noticed this early on, and stopped DPSing him with others as I normally rotate.

 

 

And thanks to everyone who put info up. =)

 

 

Don't hold your DS at the start waiting for PBI. Worst case scenario is you go a while without it, but you still have DS up with KTT, Tempus Repit, Lust, Jade Spirit, etc.  All of that together is MUCH more powerful than removing DS from it and adding that later with just PBI.

 

GoSac is superior for Destro when you have KTT. Multistrike only procs on you and not your pet, so putting that 15% into your own stuff just works out better. Also, it lets you keep much of your utility in which pet you choose or even more survivability from Shadow Bulwark and the expanded Health Pool for fights where you have Soul Link.

 

If Rook is getting too low, then cleave He/Sun.  Rook will naturally be the lowest, since he's pushed first. General cleaving and tank damage will push him lower still while you're still getting the other two into Desperate Measures. You can still cleave the higher two. Really though, Havoc more.

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Don't hold your DS at the start waiting for PBI. Worst case scenario is you go a while without it, but you still have DS up with KTT, Tempus Repit, Lust, Jade Spirit, etc.  All of that together is MUCH more powerful than removing DS from it and adding that later with just PBI.

 

GoSac is superior for Destro when you have KTT. Multistrike only procs on you and not your pet, so putting that 15% into your own stuff just works out better. Also, it lets you keep much of your utility in which pet you choose or even more survivability from Shadow Bulwark and the expanded Health Pool for fights where you have Soul Link.

 

If Rook is getting too low, then cleave He/Sun.  Rook will naturally be the lowest, since he's pushed first. General cleaving and tank damage will push him lower still while you're still getting the other two into Desperate Measures. You can still cleave the higher two. Really though, Havoc more.

 

Ah, I never knew. I always figured because sacpac was so strong, running GoSac made it a bit less survivable for a marginal DPS increase. 

 

Yeah, the macro you gave me is helping, but I'm still a noob with it, and IK that.... lol.

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Unfortunately you still gotta get 12 titan runestones from ToT/SoO so you're at least a month out from the cloak ; (

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Unfortunately you still gotta get 12 titan runestones from ToT/SoO so you're at least a month out from the cloak ; (

 

10 out* 2 from a single LFR this week. Hopefully the RNG gods smile on me.

 

I misspoke. Finished my secrets this week*

Edited by Astynax

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One of Zag's friends got like 6 this week, IIRC. You may not be quite a month out. Keep hope!

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One of Zag's friends got like 6 this week, IIRC. You may not be quite a month out. Keep hope!

 

Assuming I can get 3 out of RNG, plus my two garanteed/week, I'm 2 weeks out, I believe. Hopefully more will drop!

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