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Cataylst

WoD Warlock Tanking Viable.

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Please don't banish me for posting this. (See what I did there)

 

There seems to be a reoccurring reference to making warlocks demo spec into a viable tank. More then likely this won't happen and probably never will. I just wanted to ask the community of mostly progression raiding warlock their thoughts and opinions on the subject.

 

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=114168/dark-apotheosis

 

In my eyes, warlock tanking is already in the game and wouldn't take but a half days work for blizzard to make it viable. I would actually like to see this happen, I love to tank.

 

I would think warlock tanking is possible without hurting or harming demo dps.

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Warlocks will not be 'viable' tanks in the sense that they can be the co-tank with a Warrior, DK, Druid, Paladin, or Monk.  They are situational, gimmick tanks at times.  Looking at the WoD development, nothing is leading to believe they are working on adding a tanking specialization to the Warlock builds.  Warlock tanking is in the game when they overgear the content.  A 495 Warlock will not be able to Dark Apoth Shek'zeer or Sha of Fear. 

 

IMO, Warlocks should not be able to tank.  The concept is neat, sure, but there is just too many nuances within tanking that you'd have to develop which would do a number of things including inbalancing (even more than today) PvP.  You'd also have to consider that they'd need to be balanced amongst other tanks.  What happens if we become tanks but we're the worst tank? 

 

Warlocks are one of four pure DPS classes.  We specalize in killing things and have the luxury of doing it in multiple ways.  Demonology tanking would hurt our class more than you think.

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Well, the whole point of their push to do the 20 man mythic mode, is that they can plan more class based mechanics, which might come off as gimmicky. I think it'd be fun to do some more gimmick tank fights like Leotheras or even using our pets to tank/enslave demon tank. With that said, I never want to farm resist gear again :P. I think the only danger to our class is if it would be tanking outside of certain gimmicky encounters. As long as it stays contained to those, balancing issues shouldn't come in to play (hopefully.) 

 

Either way, if there aren't any gimmick tank fights... I at least want to use some of the spells that's been collecting dust for eons (like Enslave Demon and Banish heh).

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With Mythic, it's VERY likely there will be some 3rd tank/OT role, but this should easily be filled by any traditional tank.  One of the best options would be a Windwalker Monk who can go Brewmaster, especially for any kiting role that might be necessary (see: Heroic Garrosh).  It will be extremely unlikely that they would plan for a Warlock to OT anything because their toolkit is designed around killing things.  While a Warlock MAY be able to gimmick do it when it overgears the content, that's not the design.

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I remember the horrors of trying to teach a mage how to "tank" for Gruul's.

 

I remember the hells of trying to teach a fire mage/destro lock how to "tank" for Opera.

 

I remember the pain, the suffering, my throat hurting and my voice cracking from yelling at a Shadow Priest or Aff lock on how to "tank" Blood Prince Council!

 

DPS has no place tanking. It's bad for game mechanics, it's bad for progression race, it's bad for class design, it's bad for the community. 

 

If you want to OT, roll a bloody warrior.

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I remember the horrors of trying to teach a mage how to "tank" for Gruul's.

 

I remember the hells of trying to teach a fire mage/destro lock how to "tank" for Opera.

 

I remember the pain, the suffering, my throat hurting and my voice cracking from yelling at a Shadow Priest or Aff lock on how to "tank" Blood Prince Council!

 

DPS has no place tanking. It's bad for game mechanics, it's bad for progression race, it's bad for class design, it's bad for the community. 

 

If you want to OT, roll a bloody warrior.

 

Kinda funny you view it that way, since historically in the fights I've had that special "range tank" role.. they have been some of the most memorable fights for me.

 

I understand this whole pure argument... but at times I get very envious of hybrids and enjoy the chance to step outside of the box once in a while.   I often volunteer myself for these roles for that exact reason. 

 

I'd welcome a tank spec, or them to finish the band aid version with Dark Apo... however it would have to be the glyph or a new spec, not changing what we have.  Sadly i agree there is a lot that is effected in game by such an addition and likely would never be allowed to come to fruition.

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I don't think you should be able to Warlock tank without losing any DPS, that would destroy the balance of tanks, everyone would bring warlock tanks. If they wanted to make it viable, the abilities/talents you would have to pick up would have to also nerf your dps at the same time to make the balance work.

 

The balance required for this is a lot more intricate then it seems, Blizzard would have to invent a whole new 'spec' based on these abilities, try to balance each boss fight in the minds of if someone went at it from a warlock tank perspective, and then also try keep the spec from falling behind everything else, all while making that spec keep its DPS abilities if you choose not to be a tank.

 

Seems like a lot of work, especially when you start to try to scale it with PvP as well, finding a good balance of invincibility vs dps done to other players.

 

In my opinion warlocks need to lose some survivability right now if you compare them to mages, but the two classes need to stay different somehow. Mages would need something cool to get from all of this. Perhaps using fire and frost to heal bruises and cuts? ;)

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Why do mages get lumped in with warlocks so much?  Shadow priests are more like warlocks than mages are.  Hell, even a Boomkin could be related more closely to a Demonologist than any mage spec.

 

I think their tanking capabilities right now with a glyph are more than any of us can ask for.  I've been tanking war shaman on H Nazgrim away from the other adds to avoid healing.  I'm sure there are plenty of different ways of removing the healing totem threat, but I've been tanking them just fine.  They die and I swap back to pew pew until the next one comes out.  It's actually pretty fun!

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Kinda funny you view it that way, since historically in the fights I've had that special "range tank" role.. they have been some of the most memorable fights for me.

 

I understand this whole pure argument... but at times I get very envious of hybrids and enjoy the chance to step outside of the box once in a while.   I often volunteer myself for these roles for that exact reason. 

 

I'd welcome a tank spec, or them to finish the band aid version with Dark Apo... however it would have to be the glyph or a new spec, not changing what we have.  Sadly i agree there is a lot that is effected in game by such an addition and likely would never be allowed to come to fruition.

 

This is pretty much my feeling. If 20man mythic is being designed to assume you pretty much have at least 1 of every class, then I think it would be cool to have a fight every now and then that uses mechanics in a unique way to create a 'range tank'. There could even be pet tanks like on Instructor Razuvious in Naxx. Instead of forcing 2 priests though, maybe a boss could have 1 human, 1 demon and 1 undead. then a priest, warlock, and DK could control them to handle certain mechanics.

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Why do mages get lumped in with warlocks so much?  Shadow priests are more like warlocks than mages are.  Hell, even a Boomkin could be related more closely to a Demonologist than any mage spec.

 

I think their tanking capabilities right now with a glyph are more than any of us can ask for.  I've been tanking war shaman on H Nazgrim away from the other adds to avoid healing.  I'm sure there are plenty of different ways of removing the healing totem threat, but I've been tanking them just fine.  They die and I swap back to pew pew until the next one comes out.  It's actually pretty fun!

Do you use that glyph when you're holding the war shaman on H Nazgrim? Just curious, we occasionally have someone (usually our ret pally) get destroyed by the warshaman if his stun is on CD. I doubt we really need to worry about it since it happens so rarely, but you've got me curious!

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I would much rather see fights that require us to utilize fear, banish or Enslave demon (like with the Kanrethad fight).  Other classes that have tank specs can fill that roll better.  Besides we can get critted from the boss.

 

Having to kite is fine, but actually tanking would be bleh.

Edited by Hurtlocker
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I lump mages with warlocks because youre both cloth casters, everything else is a hybrid of some sort, but mages and warlocks arent. If warlocks get something awesome like a tank spec, mages are going to feel left out because theyre now the only cloth pure.

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Do you use that glyph when you're holding the war shaman on H Nazgrim? Just curious, we occasionally have someone (usually our ret pally) get destroyed by the warshaman if his stun is on CD. I doubt we really need to worry about it since it happens so rarely, but you've got me curious!

 

Yep.  Between Shadowfury, the improved Shadow Ward absorb (the name escapes me in DA form) and 10% less damage taken at all times with the Unending Resolve glyph.... not to mention a metric shit ton of mastery, you can get pretty tanky.  If you need extra help you can use the Drain Life glyph/talent.

 

 

 

I lump mages with warlocks because youre both cloth casters, everything else is a hybrid of some sort, but mages and warlocks arent. If warlocks get something awesome like a tank spec, mages are going to feel left out because theyre now the only cloth pure.

 

OK, but then we get Bloodlust. :P

 

I don't think anyone actually believes we'll get a legitimate tank spec though.  Lots of people hope, but..... yeah.

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Why do mages get lumped in with warlocks so much?  Shadow priests are more like warlocks than mages are.  Hell, even a Boomkin could be related more closely to a Demonologist than any mage spec.

 

I think their tanking capabilities right now with a glyph are more than any of us can ask for.  I've been tanking war shaman on H Nazgrim away from the other adds to avoid healing.  I'm sure there are plenty of different ways of removing the healing totem threat, but I've been tanking them just fine.  They die and I swap back to pew pew until the next one comes out.  It's actually pretty fun!

You're tanking a lvl 92 mob.  It's not a boss level.  Anyone can tank that.  You're just doing it because Warlocks are overpowered in defensives and survivability right now.

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I lump mages with warlocks because youre both cloth casters, everything else is a hybrid of some sort, but mages and warlocks arent. If warlocks get something awesome like a tank spec, mages are going to feel left out because theyre now the only cloth pure.

Mages will QQ regardless of what we get.  They already whine and bitch about this tier even though they've dominated past tiers.  Their tears are delicious.  Mages feel left out because they're special snowflakes.

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Those talking about Mythic and assuming one of everything to make a use for us tanking, look at what we have already.

 

We have Demonic Gateway. Two locks in a 20-man is enough to gate half the raid.

 

We have Demonic Circle. Only monks have something similar.

 

We provide Healthstones. That in itself means a good bit in terms of their ability to add more incoming damage.

 

We have Twilight Ward. This combined with our other abilities means they can make something that does shadow damage that requires a soak that does increased damage if not partially absorbed.

 

We have pets. So do frost mages and hunters. There's a lot of opportunity there.

 

I can go all day with this. Mythic design for class-specialized roles does not involve warlock tanking.

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You're tanking a lvl 92 mob.  It's not a boss level.  Anyone can tank that.  You're just doing it because Warlocks are overpowered in defensives and survivability right now.

 

I didn't say I was a saint! Lol.  I just said I tanked a mob and it was fun.  Even level 92 mobs hit hard my friend.

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For the love of all evil and unholy I wish Blizzard would come out and straight say they won't make lock or shaman tanks. Every expansion there's talk of it.

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There's talk of it from players, never from Blizzard. Blizzard hasn't indicated any inclination to do so. Why do us and shamans have the mechanics we do? Someone has to be able to eat a hit or two long enough to get a tank back up if they die. Two is about the limit I've done with UR and Shadow Bulwark, but that's long enough for my rez to go out and the tank to take it and taunt (including time to run to me and I was the next on threat after the tank).

 

We're not meant to tank, and Blizzard has never said they were going to make us tanks.

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There's talk of it from players, never from Blizzard. Blizzard hasn't indicated any inclination to do so. Why do us and shamans have the mechanics we do? Someone has to be able to eat a hit or two long enough to get a tank back up if they die. Two is about the limit I've done with UR and Shadow Bulwark, but that's long enough for my rez to go out and the tank to take it and taunt (including time to run to me and I was the next on threat after the tank).

 

We're not meant to tank, and Blizzard has never said they were going to make us tanks.

I think it's more the other tank's responsibility to take a hit or two while someone gets the dead tank up... unless we're talking 5 mans, in which case... tanks don't die :P

 

Blizzard doesn't have to "say" anything about making us tanks... all they have to do is put the Glyph of Demon Hunting in the game and that really says enough. "Actions speak louder than words," do they not? As long as that glyph is in the game, people are going to keep talking about warlock tanking and Blizzard is 100% responsible for it.

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Blizzard doesn't have to "say" anything about making us tanks... all they have to do is put the Glyph of Demon Hunting in the game and that really says enough. "Actions speak louder than words," do they not? As long as that glyph is in the game, people are going to keep talking about warlock tanking and Blizzard is 100% responsible for it.

 

I look at it as flavor.  It's a fun glyph, but it doesn't disillusion me to thinking that one day, just maybe, we'll be soaking up dragon fire instead of tail swipes.

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The other tank isn't always there and doesn't always have aggro. Think about Protectors, Galakras, Dark Shaman, Spoils and Paragons. Five fights right there where if a tank goes down, the other tank is usually not going to be very high on the table. In some cases they can get the taunt off, but not always.

 

Warlocks have been talking about being tanks since the beginning of WoW. The glyph didn't do anything to change that.

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