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Peatzah

Any room for improvement? Logs included

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Sometimes you use Dark Soul (after the opener) before PBI procs.  Line those up the best you can and your damage will improve.  Do you enjoy Dark Bargain?  I would consider using Soul Link with your gear level.  The passive healing and HP boost in conjunction with GoSac is ridiculous.  I see Dark Bargain as more of a PvP talent or PvE gimmick based on the fight.

 

Also, run me through your opener.  You can easily be doing over 1 million DPS out of the gate, but I'm not seeing it.

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I was taking Dark Bargain only for heroic jugg to soak a mine every other wave. I found that popping it, then hitting the +hp from voidwalker gosac would prevent be from really taking any damage at all. There is probably a better way to handle the mines though, this was our first kill. I normally use sac pact on everything else. I like having some sort of defensive on a 1 min cd. Ill try out soul link for a while though.

 

Does it make that much of a difference to line up dark soul with pbi procs? The durations are around the same I guess, but I figured it would be more effective using it on cd? I'll have to try that out then.

 

Here is the rotation I was using at my opener when hero was at the pull. I found that when we hero on the pull i have enough time to conflag twice, use up backdraft stacks on incinerates, and still have time to unload two (or three i cant remember) chaos bolts in the procs. I may be doing this wrong through, since i should probably be having a higher burst that i currently am. 

 

  1. prepot
  2. curse of elements
  3. dark soul
  4. immolate
  5. conflag x2
  6. incinerate x6
  7. chaos bolt x2
  8. normal rotation

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We passively absorb a lot of minor raid damage with Soul Leech. I have 911k health with Soul Link, meaning at any time I can have up to 136k absorbs ready to go. We only really need our defensives for the big things, most of which don't (or shouldn't) happen more often than once a minute. The only fight I use Sac Pact on is Shamans, and I save it for Iron Prison. Shadow Bulwark is a very strong defensive on a 1-min. CD. I don't know if you know this, but it is exactly as strong as a prot warrior's Last Stand - 30% health for 20 seconds, only ours is every minute instead of every three. It's best when you use it before the damage is going to be taken, so that you get the big health buff and have time to build up even more Soul Leech absorb for the bigger health pool.

 

Yes, lining up Dark Soul and PBI is a pretty big deal. Because of the way Chaos Bolt scales from your crit chance, you get a multiplicative effect between the two, meaning everything just gets a lot bigger.

 

During your opener, you have one goal: get two Chaos Bolts off in the first 10 seconds. It's a little harder to do since you're a human and not a troll, but you can still get it with some crits at the start. This is what your opener should be:

 

Pre-pot

Pre-cast Incinerate 2 seconds before pull

Dark Soul

Immolate

Conflag x2

Incinerate until 2 embers

Chaos Bolt x2 (if you end up burning Backdraft to do this, that's okay - you need them in that first 10 seconds)

Immolate

Try to get another Chaos Bolt off (or two with good crits for embers) before DS/PBI wear off.

 

When I get to 1.8 embers and I'm casting Incinerate, my next spell is Chaos Bolt. If Incinerate crits, I get to 2. If not, Immolate will almost always crit during that cast (you'll generally have one tick during the Incin cast and one tick during the CB cast, combining two ticks and Incin with your ~60% crit chance during your opener, you have three chances at a crit - pretty much guaranteed), giving you the 4-piece proc and the second ember for the second CB.

 

The only other thing I can see in your logs is sometimes your Immolate uptime seems a little low. Then again, sometimes that just happens.

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I was taking Dark Bargain only for heroic jugg to soak a mine every other wave. I found that popping it, then hitting the +hp from voidwalker gosac would prevent be from really taking any damage at all. There is probably a better way to handle the mines though, this was our first kill. I normally use sac pact on everything else. I like having some sort of defensive on a 1 min cd. Ill try out soul link for a while though.

 

Does it make that much of a difference to line up dark soul with pbi procs? The durations are around the same I guess, but I figured it would be more effective using it on cd? I'll have to try that out then.

 

Here is the rotation I was using at my opener when hero was at the pull. I found that when we hero on the pull i have enough time to conflag twice, use up backdraft stacks on incinerates, and still have time to unload two (or three i cant remember) chaos bolts in the procs. I may be doing this wrong through, since i should probably be having a higher burst that i currently am. 

 

  1. prepot
  2. curse of elements
  3. dark soul
  4. immolate
  5. conflag x2
  6. incinerate x6
  7. chaos bolt x2
  8. normal rotation

 

 

Gotcha.  I've been going Demo on IJ for mine soaking in conjunction with Soul Link with my Imp out (so he can keep DPS'ing while our raid runs to the back, making sure his position is right so he doesn't despawn due to distance.  I also move forward a bit occasionally during that time so I can heal him with Health Funnel).  The mine, while in Meta form, does about 20-30% of my total HP.  Pretty easy and I don't need CD's.

 

Yes, lining PBI with Dark Soul makes a big difference.  The proc on PBI is not only really high, but the CD lines up almost perfectly with DS *and* they have the same total duration.  Always try to line them up unless you have some awkward phase change where your DoT's are still ticking and cause your PBI to proc when it doesn't make sense to DS.

 

Otherwise, your opener looks solid.  It's mostly like Kaz said, but I wouldn't focus so much on getting 2 CB's off in the first 10 seconds as much as I'd focus on getting off 3-4 in the first 20 seconds.  Most people say 10 seconds I assume because of KTT or BBoY, but they have a habit of double proc'ing.  So, if you miss the first window then hold tight for the next.  On a good day I'll get about 4 CB's off before DS and PBI end.  I also drop a GCD on RoF when Bloodlust/Heroism is used on pull once the Meta Gem procs.  It helps give you extra Embers in a really small window to squeeze in that extra CB.

 

Let us know if you have more questions.  smile.png

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Here's my 2 cents since your question seems to be more general and you don't have very specific issues it seems like, have you tried playing Aff at all? I only looked at this week's clear so it could be you're just practicing destro or something.

 

I've had way better success as Aff on H IJ for example since that was your most recent progression fight, especially if you use the strategy in P2 of staying back and not dpsing. Generally things even out a bit more if you're raid is capable of staying in range for P2.

 

Main reason's I've found Aff is better:

1. Tons of movement in P1 to avoid damage means interrupted Chaos Bolts or less than ideal trinket procs say when you're kiting a borer drill, a mortar cannon targets you mid cast, or you get bumped by ricochet. Aff has very little to interrupt with 2/3 dots instant cast, a short cast dot, and then just haunt. Not to mention SB:SS if you need to get all 3 dots on during critical trinket procs while you're running. If you take KJC you pretty much lose 0 dps while minimizing damage in P1 which was a huge focus of my raid during progression. My raid looks at Borer Drill and Mortar Cannon damage which are both 100% avoidable when we analyze logs so I pride myself at being at the bottom of damage taken for those things, especially because of healer issues we had during progression.

 

2. Because of the timing of the fight, PBI is going to proc right after the start of P2 leaving you with only a few seconds to get use of it before the first shock pulse. With Aff you can get full pandemic empowered dots and throw a haunt right before the first shock pulse and still recover shards from nightfall during P2, with Destro I could only get a couple CBs off and wasted like 15 sec of proc time after the first shock pulse. Once you get comfortable with the fight, between the 2nd and 3rd shock pulse (after the mines come out) you can also use gateway/teleport or rocket belt if you are an engi to SB:SS dots again before agony falls off and get back before the 3rd shockpulse. This is also typically where you use your healthstone.

 

In general looking at your logs you're good at destro and do well on destro type fights or fights where both specs are pretty even, obviously everyone could always improve on things or may make mistakes on some fights, but you could improve the most on fights where Aff may be stronger due to mechanics. Obviously if you're not comfortable with it don't try it immediately on progression, but start using it on farm heroics and for normals where it makes sense like Thok or short fights like N Malk. For instance when a subpar Aff can pull 400K+ on protectors at your gear level and you're doing 300K+ being good at destro, you should try improving as a warlock and not just as a destro spec imho.

 

In my opinion, improving as warlock as a whole at a macro level is just as important as improving on one spec at a micro level, meaning also knowing when to play the best spec based on a fight. i.e. Aff on protectors, Destro on galakras/spoils/immerseus, etc. Even if you're amazing at destro on protectors, or amazing as Aff on Immerseus, someone who is a mid level player will probably out dps you on those fights just by using the "correct" spec.

 

Generally this means I'm always Destro on Immerseus, Sha, Galakras, Spoils, and N. Garrosh (10/14H right now only). I'm always Aff on Protectors, DS when tanked together, and any single target fight <4m which is basically normal clean up fights other than Paragons/Garrosh. Then there are fights like H. Norushen, Malkorok, or Nazgrim where you could really just do what you're more comfortable with, while there are fights like H. Thok or IJ where mechanics and what you're raid does may benefit a specific spec more (i.e. moving out in P2, or if your guild runs 1 tank/3 Heal thok which is what we're doing right now then we get 25 stacks P1 of thok which gives you 0 time for any CBs as Destro for a big portion of the fight.)

 

For Flex and Normals it may not matter as much since these are more casual, but imho any heroic raider that is trying to get better but only playing one spec for every fight when others may be better should improve overall as a warlock (or any pure dps class) as well, unless of course you're messing around or practicing a spec on farm bosses.

Edited by Strife

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Thanks a ton for the comments Strife. I honestly haven't played much affliction yet. I've been playing solely destro for so long, it just bugs me when i try out affliction and don't see the numbers I'm used to. I should really put more work into it and learn to take advantage of more fights. I'm gonna regem a little bit for some haste breakpoints to try it out on some flex raids this week.

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Those are good comments!

 

Personally I find Affliction really boring, but if you'd like to give it a whirl it's your destiny sir.  If you'd like to continue improving on Destruction though there are definite improvements that can be made.  The thing I like about Destruction is that you're rewarded for thinking on your feet and efficiently weaving your spells on multi-target fights.

 

For example, on Protectors I ended up with about 440k DPS.

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xfc19i6op6z7ulf8/sum/damageDone/?s=783&e=1249

 

You can see I open up very high on this fight.  The reason being is that I'm comfortable with switching targets.  My opener on this fight looks like this:

 

-Pre-pot > CoE (glyphed to hit all 3 before they separate)

-Immolate He and Sun

-RoF on He and Sun (or whatever pandas that are in RoF range to get at least 2)

-Immolate/2x Conflag on Rook (all procs should be up)

-Havoc He or Sun and CB spam on Rook while keeping RoF down if 2 pandas remain in proximity of each other

 

Doing this I can pull over 1.5 mil out of the gate.

 

On this fight I keep Immolate up on all pandas as much as possible, but it can get crazy.  The best use of Havoc is using CB with procs, but if I don't have any up I'll use it to apply Immolate/Incinerate for more Embers.  This is why I like Destruction so much because it's the split second decisions that matter.  I know I could do more DPS on Protectors as Affliction, but it consists of spamming Soul Swap the entire time.  All I'm saying is that if you really want to improve as Destruction, there are ways.  Most of the ways consist of making better split second decisions and of course your ABC's.

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Is there much of a difference of dps in 25 and 10? I think most of my problem on protectors is using havoc on cd with a chaos bolt whether procs are up or not. Do you really think its better off using it on incinerates to generate embers instead?

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Is there much of a difference of dps in 25 and 10? I think most of my problem on protectors is using havoc on cd with a chaos bolt whether procs are up or not. Do you really think its better off using it on incinerates to generate embers instead?

 

There can definitely be a difference, especially if you don't have every buff accounted for.  25's can have more Stormlash Totems and Skull Banners, but that isn't always the case.  Occasionally bosses will have more adds as well.  Sha of Pride I believe is an example of this.

 

As for Havoc use on Protectors, I think so.  Wasting less GCD's on keeping up Immolate (which you're going to be doing anyway) is a plus when you aren't rocking any buffs.  However, if you're about to cap Embers you'll definitely want to throw out a CB as you have been.

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Also, in 25-man, adds have more health. You've got a bigger window to get a Shadowburn in, and you can potentially get more damage in on adds.

 

Personally, I use Havoc on CD for protectors, because I have no guarantee of procs. If Havoc comes up, I have the option of using it then with a Chaos Bolt or waiting for a proc. The longer you wait, the bigger that proc has to be to not be a waste of waiting. If you wait 25 seconds, whatever proc you get will have to be big enough to double the damage your Chaos Bolt would have done to begin with - basically meaning you need two procs. I have just generally found it wasn't worth it to hold it.

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I disagree about adds being easier to shadowburn on 25 man.

On 10 man you can snipe everything, on 25 stuff just dies too fast and there are more oeople with executes. I've raided both this tier and malkorok is a good example of this where you'll be lucky to even get off 1 shadow burn on the three adds in 25, but can always execute each add on 10.

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I dunno. I have an easier time laying into adds now that I'm doing 25s. Then again, I'm playing with a lot of tunnelers. There are 4 other locks in my new guild, all of which had a heroic weapon and at least one of their heroic trinkets going into this week, and I was the top DPS on the first two bosses and consistently top 5 the rest of the week with no heroic weapon and a non-upgraded heroic PBI after I coined it on Immerseus. It's the golden rule: the better the people you play with, the less you stand out.

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I agree with Kazitrasz just finished my first week with my new 10m guild and I went from being top 3 in a 25m to 4-5 due to two mages that are 570+ and a lock at 568. When playing with better people it's a lot harder to look good lol.

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I disagree about adds being easier to shadowburn on 25 man.

On 10 man you can snipe everything, on 25 stuff just dies too fast and there are more oeople with executes. I've raided both this tier and malkorok is a good example of this where you'll be lucky to even get off 1 shadow burn on the three adds in 25, but can always execute each add on 10.

Your disagreement with him isn't based on the discussion without the inclusion of the fact you both raid in very different raid structures.  Liquid, you're in a 14/14H guild that likely has very little fluff or carries.  The abilities of your raiders are very good, thus you have a different approach to how you deal with adds.  Kaz, on the other hand, is raiding with lesser quality players.  Because of their inabilities, he is able to do more damage as a whole.

 

I've said it a hundred times before - great Warlocks in great groups will do less damage than great Warlocks in mediocre groups.  If you put a Warlock of the same skill in those two different scenarios, the one with the better group will do less DPS.  Think about Horridon.  If your raid group sucked, you got more time to do Shadowburns with a 200% damage buff.  If your raid sucked at switching to adds, you likely could have Shadowburned every single add.  I always argued that I couldn't beat other people's Horridon parses because my raid was ruthless in killing adds and didn't let me pad. 

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Liquid, you're in a 14/14H guild that likely has very little fluff or carries.  

Oh how I wish this was true... haha!

 

But yeah I agree. After I posted that I realised I went from a shitty 10 man to a pretty good 25 man so it wasn't just a direct transfer from one to another.

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This is somewhat related to this topic... I had an interesting occurence last night on our H-Norushen kill last night. After protectors which I go affliction for, I forgot to swap back to my destro gear when I swapped specs for Noru... and I ended up parsing about 70k higher than previous kills (sadly only 97% of ranking =\). That was without my 4 piece and was using my warforged BBoY rather than my Heroic totem. Since it was my haste heavy setup, I ended up being able to get a lot more damage on adds then I do with my heavy crit build. The dps in our 10 man is pretty strong, so everyone jumps on adds fairly quickly, so having all that extra haste really helped out. It also helped that my BBoY had insanely good uptime (12 procs for 32% uptime).

 

But this just goes to show ya, your stats only matter for your play-style and group setup. I'm definitely going to mess around now with a higher haste build for destro to see if that just works out better for our group setup. Dont know if I want to stick with the WF-BBoY or the H-Totem, i guess it'll depend on what I can get my haste to with just some reforging.

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I wouldn't be reforging for a fight you have on farm.  Stay Crit heavy and focus on Spoils, Thok, Siege, Paragons, and Garrosh where your single target DPS will need to be higher and switching to adds isn't as important as cleaving onto adds.

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I was thinking more for Spoils/Thok, thought it might be better to be heavier haste for those. We're doing our first pulls of Spoils tonight, I won't be doing any reforging before then so I'll see how it goes with my current setup. 

Edited by Vipples

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Helpful hints for Spoils: Glyph Havoc particularly for the Mogu side.  The fight is really not that different.  As long as you're not raiding with derpers, killing Sparks should be no problem at all.  Strive to do both larges back to back on Mogu side and one large at the start and one large at the end for the Mantid side.  Shadowburn all the things.

 

For Thok, higher Haste isn't going to help you get 2 casts between his roars, so the Haste will largely be wasted.  With minimal Haste, you can still get a Backdrafted Chaos Bolt off and Incinerates without issue.

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I'd also advise crit over haste for Thok because on progression those bats can cause trouble, and you'll be wanting to dump as many shadowburns into them as possible to cleave huge damage into the boss.

 

It's another fight where the Havoc glyph is very useful.

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