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Sameight

Starting MW in Raids and need help

17 posts in this topic

Hello to all

im playing mainly as a brewmaster in raids with my guilds and while leveling i played misweaver on dungeons etc.

with my friends we decided we need a tank and i turned to be a brewmaster

but

i love being a healer, and monk is the char i was waiting in years(finally got a main^^)

 

Anyway while leveling and doing dungeons i wasnt fistweave 

and not playing properly as a MW now i understand because of struggle while raiding

 

im doing LFRs as a MW and try to get items i know with items enchants and gems my healing is going to better, but i really couldnt harmonize mist and fist weaving

 

need help and explanations in these harmony ^^

 

i will explain what i do and want you guys to help whats wrong ^^

 

i usually use renewing mist on a tank or a group they stand in shit etc. if hurt too much with a uplift following (if enough chi)

 

mostly using Soothing mist and try to switch it to players who is not on full hp if its not enough i support it with enveloping mist

 

still cant adjusted myself to fisting i usually on range not in melee

 

and while doing these i suddenly realize im out of mana(i think its because of my gear and lack of sufficent spirit)

 

and further i read about MW i realize i need to use Renewing mist more and try to fistweave 

 

still cant evaluate the healing output fisting will give to me in my mind it looks like waste of mana

 

instead of jab+tiger palm or jab+blackout kick, i will continue soothing mist +(if necessary enveloping mist) i thought its situational

 

and due to not efficent usage of Renewing mist i cant efficently heal groups

 

how should i arrange my statistics spirit is the only thing for me right now ^^

 

Need help and experience of fellow monks ^^

i hope i will explain myself, it looks there is too much question/problem. English is not my native. i tried to be clear

thanks in advance

Edited by Sameight

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First off, and I cannot stress this enough, do NOT go for spirit after 5100 (which caps your hit for fistweaving [as far as i know])

 

For mana regen, stack crit. Its more efficient for MW in terms of mana regen (via Mana Tea) plus it contributes to healing output. You should get Haste to a reachable breakpoint (without gemming for it) and then go for crit all the way. Refer the guide here on Icy-Veins for the numerical and/or percentage values of said breakpoints.

 

Read the first post in this thread to get an understanding of stat priority for MW healing.

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/2768-how-to-ask-for-help-with-your-mistweaver-monk/

 

 

As for playstyle, always always always cast ReM on cooldown. You should find a way to easily see when its coming off cooldown and be ready to cast it right away. When you have ReM up on 6 or more players (you should also find a way to track this easily) and you have 3 Chi, you should TFT+Uplift and keep casting ReM on cooldown on people who don't have it active yet. These two spells are your most important ones. Only use Enveloping Mist on a tank when there's nothing to gain from Uplift (in other words, zero raid damage). If there's even a small bit of raid damage going on, Uplift is the better choice.

 

The topic of fistweaving: First and foremost don't stress about it if you're just starting to heal with your monk. Its a bit of extra damage during periods of low raid damage but I'd recommend sticking to mistweaving until you're comfortable with that and then start looking at fistweaving.

 

 

As for the mana issue, you get Mana Tea stacks by spending Chi. You have a chance equal to your critical chance to generate an additional stack with each stack you'd gain normally (this is why Crit is better for mana regen than spirit). Whenever you're not at maximum mana and there's not a ton of healing to be done, you should drink your Mana Tea to regain mana.

 

 

Thats as much as I can say right now since I'm at work and i gotta goooo. Krazy or Brew will probably pick it up from here tongue.png

 

 

 

PS. When asking for help, link at least your armory and preferably a World of Logs link also. Makes it easier to pinpoint stuff out.

Edited by Ceraius

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Continuing with a little more time in my hands.

 

I'd advise to take the at least the first string from the first post here.

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/1994-mistweaver-monk-weak-auras/

 

It shows the number of active ReMs on the top and the time in seconds to when the oldest one expires. In practise this means you should TFT+Uplift when the top number is six or higher and the lower number is close to zero. Also you should be able to maintain at least six ReMs in a 25man setting at all times just by casting ReM on cooldown.

 

As for 2nd tier talents, I highly recommend trying to work with Chi Burst. Chi Wave is easier to use as its pretty automatic, but since ReM already behaves as a smartheal I prefer Chi Burst for the control, an I can't think of a scenario where I wouldve manage to outperform it with Chi Wave apart from 10man Immerseus.

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Hi Sameight,

 

Without logs or an armory link it is hard to give you specifics as what you are doing  wrong because we have no basis for your errors.

 

To start please link your armory so we can check your gemming/enchanting/glyphs and reforging.(i will even run it through AMR and link you my suggestion)

 

My advice would be if you are new no MW do not fistweave. Fistweaving is not a requirement of monk healing more just a tool to maximise your toon.

 

Renewing mists on Cooldown and use thunder focus tea to extend. Use Uplift as often as possible and never cap your chi.

Chi Brew > Ascention

Do not glyph mana tea

Enveloping mists is not a great heal to be using at all really, it costs 3 chi and will mostly overheal. Prioritse Uplift.

 

TL;DR

Link me your armory

Read the guides

profit

 

:)

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After checking your armory, here's what i find missing:

1st of all, you lack of meta gem, at least Burning Primal Diamond or LMG, since monk healing is based on crits

2nd - you need to reach highest possible haste breakpoint - it'd be 6141 haste for you i guess.

4rd - spirit cap for MW is 5100 spirit, it gives you hit and expertise cap for fistweaving. MW regen is based on, what i call, active regeneration - you generate Mana Brew, which needs to be drinked while not in need of healing anyone

5th - gems and enchants, of course, you don't have any

6th - yet another thing, Chi Brew (T45 talent) is absolutely a must theese days, since it generates 2 stacks of Mana Tea each time you use it. Also RJW is much more mana-expensive than Xuen, i think you should consider picking Xuen. Also Healing Elixirs is not the best option you could choose.

7th - you should avoid spirit and mastery gear. Reforging anything to spirit or mastery is like shooting to your foot

 

TL;DR

Go, use askmrrobot with Krazyito's advice found here: http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/2768-how-to-ask-for-help-with-your-mistweaver-monk/ , which you didn't bother reading, i'm afraid.

Edited by Yaendshay
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I'm sorry, but you're just so low gear, I can't help you.  Come back when you got at least a blue or purple in every slot, and are gemmed and enchanted.

 

Without that you can't even think about asking for help.  The best I can say is just learn the rotation on the website.  Spam Soothing mists for chi, use ReM, EH, and chi brew on CD and spam uplift for healing.

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I'm sorry, but you're just so low gear, I can't help you.  Come back when you got at least a blue or purple in every slot, and are gemmed and enchanted.

 

Without that you can't even think about asking for help.  The best I can say is just learn the rotation on the website.  Spam Soothing mists for chi, use ReM, EH, and chi brew on CD and spam uplift for healing.

 

Whilst this may sound a little abrupt it is quite true.

 

MW's scale with gear quite hard. You have managed to get the 2 worst MoP healing trinkets available.

 

Best advice is to read the guides here already and start to practice and track your "rotation" or priorities as a MW.

 

Once you are in timeless/lfr or better then you can look at refining your gear. For now try to focus the refining play style.

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im feeling bad about your replies after i linked my armory

in the first entry of the post i was tried to explain me and my situation

im playin MW in my free time and while doing LFRs only

try to get items for MW while doing these

i know i have shitty items or dont have any gems/enchants as i said in first post

 

i know it will make my healing output better but the questions i asked not about the healing output they about how to play MW better

 

im really offended what Krazyito said do players need to be some sort of item level for you to help?

i was really a fan of icy-veins and you guys

with your helps guides etc.

 

but know i understand sometimes you are too arrogant to explain 

i have read all the guildes about all the classes im trying to change my faults and try to be a better player

and i truly know im a good player

just need luck and time

i had these healing gear in just a week doing LFRs and i know its not enough yet

but im trying to improve it

its just a matter of time

 

but i need to know my class talent spec better to be a better one

 

anyway

 

i really thanks to you with your helps and i know you are not mean persons

but first time i feel bad after read about somebodies posts

and leave forums with a heartbreak

 

and for a final word i understand with your explanations for the all fellow monk i can explain

if you dont have gear dont be a MW cause you cant

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I guess the message, which may have been a little lost in translation is:

 

Your gear is too low to effectively play a mistweaver in its current form and without an abundance of gem sockets and stats your reforging and gemming style wont have a great affect on your output.

 

Some times people just need more gear, monks are very gear dependant especially new level 90's.

 

Learning the rotation from the guides that already exist is your best move at the moment.

 

Once you have some better gear and have attempted to understand the guides and you then are still having problems we can give you advice specific to you.

 

All the beginner and base information is already located in the guides here.

 

Timeless 496ilvl gear is quite easy to obtain and account wide, even a full set of this would be better than the current gear you have(trinket included).

 

Im sorry you feel that you may have been excluded from help by gear. There is no requirement for help but the level of help that can be given will increase with your gear. At your current level you will be getting gear upgrades so fast that what will help you now might be completely irrelevant in 10ilvls time, which with good rng could be in 1 lfr from now.

 

Run a few lfr's, farm timeless isle have a crack at healing(log the healing if possible) then come back with your log and gear around the entry level of the tier and we will be more than happy to help you refine you play.

 

Happy Killing :)

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I wasn't trying to be mean or anything, though I suppose I personally took your ungemmed and unenchanted armory as a slight insult because I personally always maximize my stats when playing something new, regardless of ilvl. I then learn the basics by reading everything I can and then ask for help for the small nuances.

Sorry if I came across harsh, but without logs or even an inkling of effort (mainly from your armory) there's no way we can help you. Gear can only do so much, but having no reference point other than you didn't take the time to even gem or enchant with cheap stuff wasn't worth the effort that I've already posted many times.

Lastly I suppose to slightly answer your first question: Until you compete with other healers numbers wise, you shouldn't even think about fistweaveing. Just spam Rem, eh, chi brew, soothing mists and uplift. Get the weak auras I've posted, learn to read them and use tft.

Again, sorry for sounding arrogant or rude, but the best thing you can ask for is specific questions about rotation. You learn most of the general things from experience and will naturally learn when you should fistweave or not.

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If we work on the gear, the following path would be good for you.

 

1. Get rid of all gear with mastery on it. Avoid it like the plague. Your levels of mastery arent alarming, but every single point of mastery is better spent elsewhere.

 

2. After that, work down your spirit. Any spirit past 5100 rating is a waste. New trinkets will solve most of this. Get ones with crit or int or haste even if that means equipping lower itemlevel trinkets, but for the time being at least reforge that spirit into crit or haste.

 

3. Work your way to an easily obtainable haste breakpoint. Do not gem for haste though, since your stance only boosts haste from gear.

 

4. Get your crit to at least 30% raidbuffed. Preferably more, but 30% is the magic number where you might go low on mana, but never run out completely. Anything past that (in my own experience) is just quality of life bonus. I've managed with as low as 28% raidbuffed.

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3. Work your way to an easily obtainable haste breakpoint. Do not gem for haste though, since your stance only boosts haste from gear.

 

 

This is not the reason I advocated for not gemming too much haste.  

 

First of all I don't think this is true, because "from gear" I'm pretty sure includes your gems.   I don't think we would be able to do the reforges in tiger stance and have it convert correctly if this were the case.

 

Second, the reason I said don't gem haste was because crit was such a better stat.  

 

Recent;y, I posted about haste though and I had come to the conclusion that gemming for haste (only about a full breakpoint above where you normally would be able to) is perfectly OK.  If it involves replacing EVERY gem, its probably not a good idea.  Just keep wacthing your crit levels and don't bring it too low.

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This is not the re

First of all I don't think this is true, because "from gear" I'm pretty sure includes your gems.   I don't think we would be able to do the reforges in tiger stance and have it convert correctly if this were the case.

 

 

You make a fair point there.

 

 

Second, the reason I said don't gem haste was because crit was such a better stat.  

 

Thus the point of easily obtainable.

 

As for the 4th entry on my earlier post regarding crit, yes it also increases throughput, but the main point of that entry was manaregen.

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thanks again to you all Ceraius, Krazyito, Brewmonksta.
i now learned my mistakes and realized what to do next while playing as a MW

but confused about statistics priority

in the guide get spirit until you feel comfortable but now you say 5100 if enough for hit and critical is better due to mana tea usage and there is haste break points ^^

 

as new raiding player with insufficient items i am not going to do fistweave mostly just mistweaving

 

should i use

spirit > haste (%16.65min) > crit and avoid mastery?

or something else?

 

thanks again and again you give me lots of confidence i understand im doing most of the things right via i read from guides and not shouldnt wait better things with this form right now.

love you all ^^

Edited by Sameight

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but confused about statistics priority

in the guide get spirit until you feel comfortable but now you say 5100 if enough for hit and critical is better due to mana tea usage and there is haste break points ^^

 

 

This is why I personally like scrolling through community forums. While the guides usually give you a good starting point, the forums and discussions are where the advanced stuff and alternative methods are gone through.

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