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jc2ntice

Resto shaman 10m

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Hey guys, sorry for my english.... But i just wanna ask a few questions about running a 10m as a resto shaman as i came back from a long break... (Since wotlk).. Me and a few friends are doing flex atm then move onto normals when everyone is capable..

1) is crit or mastery better for 10m? Right now im running on 30% haste and im not sure if i need that much for 10m... Other wise i can just reforge them to whatever is needed..

2) what spirit should i aim for? Im currently running mine on 12500 spirit.. And i still oom On heavy raid wide damge fights.. Ive tried goin to 14k spirit and im more fine with it.. But i lose a lot of crit.. Is my playing style a problem or is it because i still have a low gear that i shouldnt worry about my crit yet..

3) im currently equipped with a 540 flex chest.. But i also have 528 t16 chest that i can use.. Should i use 528 to complete my 4 piece set or stay on 2 piece for now till i get 540 t16 piece to complete it

Thanks alot! And im sorry if theres been a post in the forums about this.. But heres my toon..

Edited by jc2ntice

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I'm sure Stoove will get in here with more detailed advice, and when he does you should listen to everything he says.  I'm not as dedicated to the spec, but I've been working on my gear for it lately and may have some useful insights for you.

 

If you're new to the MoP incarnation of the spec I'm inclined to recommend you focus more on efficiency stats rather than pure throughput.  The 30% haste breakpoint gives you an extra tick of Healing Rain, which is nice and all, but... probably not worth it at your gear level for 10man.  If you can move down to the 25% breakpoint, that frees up a pile of haste you can move to regen/efficiency stats.  I'd aim for ~80% mastery (less if you raid with a disc priest) and send the rest into crit.  In 10man you're casting a lot more (Greater) Healing Waves and Chain Heals, which benefit more from crit than your other spells.  If you do keep that much spirit, make sure you're making perfect use of Mana Tide; don't cast it when you go OOM, cast it when any healer dips below 75% mana, and then pretty much on cooldown for the rest of the fight.

 

If you're going OOM with that much spirit, though, I have to wonder if it isn't just gear related.  If you can link a log of some sort, that'd be great, but just telling us how you're healing people might be huge.  If I had to guess, I'd imagine you're attempting to use healing rain more than is prudent.  (Which would make sense if you're still thinking from a WotLK mindset, you had functionally infinite mana back then.)  On 10man, I very rarely cast Healing Rain; if I can park one on the melee pile during steady damage (Galakras) or before a scheduled raidwide nuke (Calamity, Swelling Pride) I'll do it, but if you can't keep 4-5 people in it for most of its duration, don't bother.  With constant incoming raid damage, I'd say CH-HW-HW repeat is the way to go, replacing healing waves with more chain heals if raid health dips below 80%ish.  If you can get ~40% crit, CH-HW-HW is essentially mana-neutral and you can do it all day long.  No matter how good your gear is, you'll never be able to spam the powerful heals continuously, so you have to try and heal people who actually need it rather than worry about keeping everyone perfectly topped off.

 

Hopefully some of that helps.  If you can get a log I can help a lot more, but any more info will be helpful.

 

EDIT: Somehow I forgot to mention that Riptide is your best friend on 10man.  Don't glyph it.  If it comes off CD and you don't need to cast something else, put it on someone who's taking unavoidable damage.  Tanks are the obvious choice, but if a clothy gets Garrote or something, throw one on them.  It really helps.

Edited by SparkSovereign

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I'm sure Stoove will get in here with more detailed advice, and when he does you should listen to everything he says.  I'm not as dedicated to the spec, but I've been working on my gear for it lately and may have some useful insights for you.

 

If you're new to the MoP incarnation of the spec I'm inclined to recommend you focus more on efficiency stats rather than pure throughput.  The 30% haste breakpoint gives you an extra tick of Healing Rain, which is nice and all, but... probably not worth it at your gear level for 10man.  If you can move down to the 25% breakpoint, that frees up a pile of haste you can move to regen/efficiency stats.  I'd aim for ~80% mastery (less if you raid with a disc priest) and send the rest into crit.  In 10man you're casting a lot more (Greater) Healing Waves and Chain Heals, which benefit more from crit than your other spells.  If you do keep that much spirit, make sure you're making perfect use of Mana Tide; don't cast it when you go OOM, cast it when any healer dips below 75% mana, and then pretty much on cooldown for the rest of the fight.

 

If you're going OOM with that much spirit, though, I have to wonder if it isn't just gear related.  If you can link a log of some sort, that'd be great, but just telling us how you're healing people might be huge.  If I had to guess, I'd imagine you're attempting to use healing rain more than is prudent.  (Which would make sense if you're still thinking from a WotLK mindset, you had functionally infinite mana back then.)  On 10man, I very rarely cast Healing Rain; if I can park one on the melee pile during steady damage (Galakras) or before a scheduled raidwide nuke (Calamity, Swelling Pride) I'll do it, but if you can't keep 4-5 people in it for most of its duration, don't bother.  With constant incoming raid damage, I'd say CH-HW-HW repeat is the way to go, replacing healing waves with more chain heals if raid health dips below 80%ish.  If you can get ~40% crit, CH-HW-HW is essentially mana-neutral and you can do it all day long.  No matter how good your gear is, you'll never be able to spam the powerful heals continuously, so you have to try and heal people who actually need it rather than worry about keeping everyone perfectly topped off.

 

Hopefully some of that helps.  If you can get a log I can help a lot more, but any more info will be helpful.

 

EDIT: Somehow I forgot to mention that Riptide is your best friend on 10man.  Don't glyph it.  If it comes off CD and you don't need to cast something else, put it on someone who's taking unavoidable damage.  Tanks are the obvious choice, but if a clothy gets Garrote or something, throw one on them.  It really helps.

Thank you so much for the quick reply! =) Ahhh.. Alright.. I guess i am doing it wrong then.. My rotations are basically the same as i do it on lfr which is 25 man... Im always cast UE with healing rain.. (Glyphed) Riptide on tanks at all times and spam chain heal and healing waves or greater healing waves.. I also blanket raid with riptide when i can.. But yea, i think its because of the healing rain on cooldown.. I always drop it on melee.. We have about 3-4 on melee range.. I didnt know that i shouldnt glyph riptide also... Thank you

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Also, in that case.. When should i start aiming for 30% haste.. Im always top on meters, even against higher ilvl healers.. I just want to improve myself and help the raid on the right way of doing it..

Anyway, after playing around my stats, these are the possible ways i can change it:

A) 12.5% Haste Crit

Mastery - 62.41%

Crit - 24.85%

Haste - 17.11%

Spirit - 14258

B ) 20% Haste. +2 ticks of HST

Mastery - 81.81%

Crit - 18.48%

Haste - 20.02%

Spirit - 12999

C) 25% Haste. +2 ticks of RT

Mastery - 72.25%

Crit - 18.48%

Haste - 24.97%

Spirit - 13000

D) 30% Haste (currently on). +2 ticks of HR

Mastery - 62.58%

Crit - 18.48%

Haste - 30%

Spirit - 12998

Im not sure which one is the best for running 10mans, but im sure you guys can help me.. Thanks alot!

Edited by jc2ntice

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Heya,

 

I finished clearing Soo 10m just a few weeks ago and am starting to go hc soon. This is how i did things but other methods may very much work as well.

 

Stats:

How you prioritize stats is a bit controversial but here goes.

 

- Get as much (but no more!) spirit as you need to complete our most mana intense fight with 0 mana left. Of course this is impossible to do but basically aim for something that is comfortable on most fights and tense in the more mana heavy fights. I would suggest that you simply try going a bit lower (down by steps of perhaps 250-500) then where you are really comfortable and try it out. I am running no mana return trinkets and im on 13500 ish spirit at the moment.

 - Get up to a comfortable haste breakpoint and try to not get over that because haste between breakpoints is not all that good. Do not use all your gem slots and reforges to go to haste because that will have terrible effects on your mana.

 - Int is our best stat after those 2 things with crit being next. I havent seen calculations on how much better int is and i personally take 2 crit over 1 int but many others do not.

 - Mastery is generally considered the worst throughput stat. It is however not terrible and in certain situations (for example if you have 3 healers and you are designated as "oh shit" healer) mastery can be good. Personally is always keep a decent amount of mastery and you will probably not be able to get below 50% mastery once you have a bit of normal gear.

 

Mana issues:

There are a few spells that drain your mana quite fast. The once i find draining my mana the most are the following.

 

 - Lesser healing wave, it is really expensive and you never want to spam that heal. If you have to spam it then something is going really wrong and needs to be fixed. If you need to use it make sure you have tidal waves buff (from riptide) up for increased chance of mana refund.

 - unglyphed chain heal. Spamming this makes for really nice hps but it is expensive and will require either high spirit or really high crit. Im at 35% crit with 13500 spirit and i cant spam this with my other heals forever.

- You can use glyph of totemic recall to get a lot of mana back from healing stream and if you have legendary meta gem you can do even more by casting free magma totem and recalling for free 12k ish mana. I used to do this but i found later that i prefered to have just a bit more spirit and not waste gcd on this, but thats a playstyle choice more than anytthing.

- Legendary meta gem gives you free spells. You can (at least in therory) use it to get a lot of free short cast time mana intense spells (healing stream, lesser healing wave) but its not always easy to do this in practice.

 

 

Throughput:

You seem to have the general idea there. Our highest throuhput spells are.

 - Healing rain, use it on cd. It is our best hps if you have 2 targets or more. Its an expensive cast but it is almost always worth casting and you want to couple this with unleash elemnt whenever you can.

- Healing stream totem. Most would say use it on cd, i personally only use it when there is at least some damage intake because it does have a bit of a cooldown. Healing stream and healing rain will generally be by far your 2 highest heals in a fight.

 - Chain heal, i used it glyphed through most of the raid which gives it a cd making it impossible to spam. That helps with mana and on some fights it is really reccommended but on others it is simply better to have the option to spam it a bit.

- Riptide usually comes 3rd or 4th for me because i use it with the glyph. Always. Having it glyphed means you can prep for big damage intakes by pre hotting. It also makes sure that you always have tidal waves buff and you have many good chain heal targets. I belive Zetian has videos on this site that show its usefullness.

 

 

Tier set bonus:

Our 2 set tier bonus is awsome and you should keep that bonus even if you get the option of slightly better items. Our 4 piece bonus is more situational however and unless you use it a LOT i would switch the chest out. If you decide to keep it then consider using the glyph for added duration.

 

 

Your current stats:

I would personally keep it as it is with the exception of trying to get rid of a bit of mastery/crit in favor of a bit of spirit (since you are struggling). Keep in mind however that it is often the case if you run out of mana that the raid is simply doing something wrong and making you spam to much.

 

 

For more advice it would be really usefull to get a link to your armory and also some logs (worldoflogs.com) if you want to compare playstyle differences.

 

 

 

Dofri

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Yeah, I'd figured you were coming from a 25-player mindset; the stuff that works well in 25 tends to be overkill in 10 man, and runs you OOM.  The most important thing is to let other healers do the topping off; they're better at it.  You are a master-class triage spec, and should play accordingly.

 

 


Mana issues:

There are a few spells that drain your mana quite fast. The once i find draining my mana the most are the following.

 

 - Lesser healing wave, it is really expensive and you never want to spam that heal. If you have to spam it then something is going really wrong and needs to be fixed. If you need to use it make sure you have tidal waves buff (from riptide) up for increased chance of mana refund.

 

I think you mean Healing Surge, not Healing Wave.  Healing Surge will dry you up REALLY fast and you should never cast it unless you are uncertain the target will survive the extra half a second to cast GHW instead.  Healing Wave is functionally mana positive if you have decent crit and spirit, and is a good thing to cast as filler.

 

Otherwise, there's some very useful info in there.

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what is your usual heal comp and tank classes? if you 3 heal fights on normal please list them.

 

if any fights seem like output is an issue on normal plz provide logs.

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OK so the advice here is broadly good, thanks to Spark and Dofri for their contributions. I want to straighten a few points out where I think there have been inaccuracies. That's at the end. First, I'm going to tell you what I think:

 

You should stick with your current build. The Haste is excellent for your Healing Rain and the Legendary Meta Gem (which if you don't have it, get it asap). It's been a viable build since ToT. The Mastery you have is also a nice bonus - you will find that on what you might call "proper" progress fights - where your team is struggling to keep people alive - that Mastery will make the difference for you. Mastery is also quite mana efficient.

 

You're running nearly 13k Spirit, which is good providing you have some kind of regen trinket usually. I use the trinket off Sha of Pride and 13k Spirit, but if you don't have that take either Horridon's Last Gasp from ToT or the Timeless Isle trinket instead. If you're really running out of ideas, you could use Relic of Chi-Ji instead.

 

The biggest thing that you could change IMO is to get out of the habit of spamming. You should consciously choose every single spell you cast, ensuring that it is appropriate for the current situation. In 10-man, it is much harder to get away with just spamming Chain Heal smile.png

 

That takes much much practice, so I can't blame people for suggesting easier options. One thing that I used to do was go into Heroic 5-mans and see if I could heal them with very low gear. Every boss kill was 1-2 items removed, until I once healed the final boss in HC Zul'Aman with only a weapon, a helmet, and a loincloth for modesty. It ain't easy, but you sure learn how to heal :)

 

____________________________________________

 

As for the other comments;

 

If you're new to the MoP incarnation of the spec I'm inclined to recommend you focus more on efficiency stats rather than pure throughput.  The 30% haste breakpoint gives you an extra tick of Healing Rain, which is nice and all, but... probably not worth it at your gear level for 10man. 

 

The 30% Breakpoint is very much a matter of taste until you get the Legendary Meta, but afterwards I would say it's almost mandatory. Healing Rain is a really good throughput tool, and reasonably efficient if you get 4-6 people in it. As long as you can get those people in, use it! The throughput from it is amazing. I've been on the 30% breakpoint since ilvl 518, for reference. Haste is most certainly a viable stat at 30%. It does require that you are ready to play a more reserved style - not spamming Chain Heal but letting the small heals sort themselves out when there's no burst.

 

 

If you're going OOM with that much spirit, though, I have to wonder if it isn't just gear related.  

 

On 10man, I very rarely cast Healing Rain; if I can park one on the melee pile during steady damage (Galakras) or before a scheduled raidwide nuke (Calamity, Swelling Pride) I'll do it, but if you can't keep 4-5 people in it for most of its duration, don't bother.

 

I'd say CH-HW-HW repeat is the way to go, replacing healing waves with more chain heals if raid health dips below 80%ish.

 

In my opinion, if I don't place Healing Rain so that enough people stand in it, that is my fault and a place for improvement. I think that there is almost always a good place to put down Healing Rain, even on 10-man, and the real challenge of the spec on some fights is finding where that is. Some fights are hard, admittedly (Iron Juggernaut for example), but almost all are possible with enough practice.

 

I'd also warn that sticking to any kind of rotation is a bad thing to do. While CH-HW-HW might be comfortable, it isn't very responsive to the healing requirements - these can change at a moment's notice. There is a lot of context in this, especially because whether you're 2- or 3-healing has to be taken into account. In 2-healing, you need to maintain a certain level of raw throughput regardless as a bit of a buffer, so you almost never get the chance to CH-HW-HW. Remember also that you should be paying attention to the boss timers - if there's a bit hit (Calamity, Swelling Pride, Shock Pulse, etc...) incoming soon you don't want to be sitting there casting Healing Wave.

 

It FURTHER depends on your mana level, as well. So typically if I'm above 75% mana I cast whatever I need. Below that, I start to get a little more cautious about what to cast. It's all about developing the experience of balancing mana usage with the needs of the fight. I don't really think that a rigid or semi-rigid rotation is suitable for that in the long term smile.png

 

 

 - Int is our best stat after those 2 things with crit being next. I havent seen calculations on how much better int is and i personally take 2 crit over 1 int but many others do not.

 

We mathed this out in another thread with Lynx, and eventually we got my friend and theorycrafter Dayani in as well. Essentially, Intellect is inferior to Crit when gemming - always use hybrids (i.,e. 2 Crit >> 1 Int). Since this is true both in terms of throughput and mana efficiency, the Icy Veins guidance is now to always gem for secondaries using hybrids.

 

 

Somehow I forgot to mention that Riptide is your best friend on 10man.  Don't glyph it.  If it comes off CD and you don't need to cast something else, put it on someone who's taking unavoidable damage.  Tanks are the obvious choice, but if a clothy gets Garrote or something, throw one on them.  It really helps.

 

I think that the Glyphed Riptide playstyle is dependent on many things, a major one of them is taste. I really like the Glyphed playstyle, because in SoO it gives me lots of opportunities to stick a comparatively efficient heal on the target and forget about the DoT. Examples would be Bonecracker on Nazgrim and a similar thing on Dark Shaman. Don't forget, too, that Riptide ticks feed into your Ascendance. I use that to devastating effect on Malkorok when we start - pre-hotting the entire raid before the pull increases your throughput immensely. I've personally watched myself peak at 700k HPS at the start of that fight, and others have watched me get close to 1M HPS bursting there.

 

I think it's a worthwhile glyph, and you should always choose to use (or not to use) it on a fight by fight basis. smile.png

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I think you mean Healing Surge, not Healing Wave.  Healing Surge will dry you up REALLY fast and you should never cast it unless you are uncertain the target will survive the extra half a second to cast GHW instead.  Healing Wave is functionally mana positive if you have decent crit and spirit, and is a good thing to cast as filler.

 

 

 

Yeah healing surge, stuck on using the old name hehe.

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We mathed this out in another thread with Lynx, and eventually we got my friend and theorycrafter Dayani in as well. Essentially, Intellect is inferior to Crit when gemming - always use hybrids (i.,e. 2 Crit >> 1 Int). Since this is true both in terms of throughput and mana efficiency, the Icy Veins guidance is now to always gem for secondaries using hybrids.

 

Hey Stoove, could you elaborate on this? Or maybe just point me to the thread? I have been curious at the gemming strat once comfortable with spirit, and askmrrobots suggests straight int gems in red, with hybrids in yellow (potent) and blue (purified or misty). Would love to see a post-spirit gemming suggestion update to the Resto guide.  

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Guys! First of all i wanna say thanks to all those people that helped! =) i have a better understanding on how to play it properly now... Also... Ive tried running my haste on 33% to try the +2 ticks of hST... I noticed a big hps increase... The only thing i lost is .87% of crit.. Is that .87% important? Or can i stay on 33% haste.. Heres my AMR..

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/20b24c84-b799-4c66-8726-411f16f71b25

Edited by jc2ntice

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I could break Stoove's post into a bunch of small chunks and say "good point" and "listen to this wisdom" for each, but I won't bore you with it.  I'll just reply to the stuff specifically addressing my feedback.

 

The 30% Breakpoint is very much a matter of taste until you get the Legendary Meta, but afterwards I would say it's almost mandatory. Healing Rain is a really good throughput tool, and reasonably efficient if you get 4-6 people in it. As long as you can get those people in, use it! The throughput from it is amazing. I've been on the 30% breakpoint since ilvl 518, for reference. Haste is most certainly a viable stat at 30%. It does require that you are ready to play a more reserved style - not spamming Chain Heal but letting the small heals sort themselves out when there's no burst.

I hadn't even considered the impact of the legendary meta on that, that's a really good point.  It's a large mana investment that's easy to waste, but if it's free... hell yeah.  Also very solid points about finding a place for Healing Rain being your responsibility; especially since I'm working with a rather melee-heavy comp (if I go heals, my group has one other ranged dps).  Maximizing healing rain effectiveness does require a bit of cooperation on the part of your raid group, but as you're usually blanketing melee (traditionally more used to moving than ranged) a simple reminder to "stand in the heals" should be all it takes if you see them not doing so.

 

Stoove is also spot-on re: fixed rotations are bad.  However, in the sort of simple medium-throughput-damage sort of fight you were specifically mentioning, it's important to keep in mind A) the level of healing you need to do and B) how much mana efficiency you can get away with.  Chain Heal is reasonably efficient but not to the degree you can spam it, while Healing Wave is perfect for "everyone is in pretty good health right now".  CH-HW-HW is a reasonable example of what you may find yourself doing, but Stoove is absolutely right, you should be choosing a heal for the situation every time you cast.  Especially since we're in the context of constant raid damage, be on the lookout for places you can drop a Healing Rain, since if you get full benefit out of it it's one of the most powerful heals in the game.

 

Glad to be of help, and happy raiding!

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Guys! First of all i wanna say thanks to all those people that helped! =) i have a better understanding on how to play it properly now... Also... Ive tried running my haste on 33% to try the +2 ticks of hST... I noticed a big hps increase... The only thing i lost is .87% of crit.. Is that .87% important? Or can i stay on 33% haste.. Heres my AMR..

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/20b24c84-b799-4c66-8726-411f16f71b25

 

 

Just a note: The 33% Haste breakpoint doesn't work - you are NOT guaranteed the extra tick on Healing Stream Totem and there is no way of controlling or adjusting for it, since the bug/feature is server based. You're more likely seeing the effect of more Haste on your playstyle, which is good if you really like that extra cast speed. :)

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Just a note: The 33% Haste breakpoint doesn't work - you are NOT guaranteed the extra tick on Healing Stream Totem and there is no way of controlling or adjusting for it, since the bug/feature is server based. You're more likely seeing the effect of more Haste on your playstyle, which is good if you really like that extra cast speed. :)

Ahh, so it doesnt improve HST at all? Back to 30% then... Lol..!

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Ahh, so it doesnt improve HST at all? Back to 30% then... Lol..!

 

It's not that quite straightforward. It is supposed to, but for some reason (server side) it doesn't, unpredictably.

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Also, whats your guys 10m composition.. Which healer goes well with shammies? Im starting to recruit for a healer but i dont know which one suits our healing style best... For both 2 healing and 3 healing.. Tha ks!

Edited by jc2ntice

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Also, whats your guys 10m composition.. Which healer goes well with shammies? Im starting to recruit for a healer but i dont know which one suits our healing style best... For both 2 healing and 3 healing.. Tha ks!

 

Heya,

 

You can get through the normal part at least with any composition without to much trouble. That being said id reccommend a disc priest over anything else and a druid as a third.

 

Reasons for this is basically that disc priest with all of his shields gives a nice buffer for damage intakes which makes things smoother and allows for easier healing. I personally cleared all of normal with a single disc priest.

 

The reason i reccommend druid as a second healer is because i feel that shield healers (mostly disc and holy) loose a good deal of value when you pair them up and of the 3 other healers (holy priest, monk, druid) i feel that druid brings a nice package that complements both disc and shaman really well.

 

This is of course really a subject that can be debated back and forth forever but this is how i would set things up personally.

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Also, whats your guys 10m composition.. Which healer goes well with shammies? Im starting to recruit for a healer but i dont know which one suits our healing style best... For both 2 healing and 3 healing.. Tha ks!

 Disc folowed by a Pali, For a 3rd keep in mind one of your 3 healers will need a solid dps off spec

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I've been 2-healing with a Monk and more recently a Paladin. Before that, we were Shaman/Monk/Druid and before THAT was Shaman/Paladin/Druid, which all worked well.

 

I think if I chose one not to 2-heal with, it would be Disc. I just feel that when 2-healing, it's possible to be a bit too absorb heavy. Personal opinion, though. TBH pick someone who has experience and knows their class inside out :)

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I've been 2-healing with a Monk and more recently a Paladin. Before that, we were Shaman/Monk/Druid and before THAT was Shaman/Paladin/Druid, which all worked well.

 

I think if I chose one not to 2-heal with, it would be Disc. I just feel that when 2-healing, it's possible to be a bit too absorb heavy. Personal opinion, though. TBH pick someone who has experience and knows their class inside out :)

Ahh cool thanks.. I think wer still too low for 2 healings fights.. How does shaman/druid/disc sound? And when wer able to 2 heal, is shaman and druid ok together?

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Ahh cool thanks.. I think wer still too low for 2 healings fights.. How does shaman/druid/disc sound? And when wer able to 2 heal, is shaman and druid ok together?

 

Shaman/Druid/Disc is alright, you have all the bases covered really. You'll find on farm fights you don't have much to do, what with HoTs and absorbs, but it's progress that matters really and that team is pretty good.

 

I've 2-healed progress with Shaman/Druid before, that worked well. It was our Heroic Immersius kill, I think. So yeah it would work :)

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